85 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

Here's my problem: This made the already most competitive medium 'mech in the game (Cent 9A) and gave it the same buffs as 'mechs that nobody uses seriously (HBK), resulting in no improvement on the chassis that needed them.

Also they need to add a cape to the options to add to your 'mech, because the Centurion is now Super Centurion. In particular if you're using an all torso build like the 3x SRM6 that's popular.

Edited by Victor Morson, 20 August 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Deathlike]

I was thinking the buffs were actually AGILITY based (accel/decel/turn speed).. but they are only there to improve the weapons "range" radius that mediums "kinda" have trouble with vs lights.

I sincerely hope another pass at tweaking mediums is on the way, because outside of the Hunchback buffs (that were sorely needed), this change was meh at best.

Also, BJs (the non-1X) do need to go to a 250-255 engine... with MAYBE the BJ-1X getting a 300 engine. The BJ-1DC IMO needs a torso twist range buff to boot (the JJ BJ mechs are a lot better at turning than the 1DC).

[arghmace]

Yes the BJs are complete {Scrap} with current engines. It's not just about the speed, it's about the fact that any engine below 250 is badly gimped because of the heat sink implementation in this game. I don't think I'll ever buy a mech that cannot use 250+ engines until heat sink system is reworked.

[Ensaine]

Wrong tweaks on the wrong mechs. Overall, useless waste of time.

[keith]

still really did nothing. got crushed by the army of ASSAULT mechs. many of the mechs need a rework of their hitboxes/size, that is not a we shall wait till after launch its a need done now, before new mechs are added. what does 25% more torso speed give us? is there a value with that, because ever engine gives u a different twist speed. is there a master list? the speed that needs to be increased is the A D speeds, so as u turn around a mech to get behind them u can stay at full speed.

[John MatriX82]

mediums should get also some other specific-class bonuses in terms of cbills and/or exp. Accel/deceleration bonuses would be good, for the rest, barely few of my hunchies will benefit from bigger engines, you often struggle to get more than a std 250 in them (especially the 4H and the 4SP) while the 4P can get easily to 270.

At least the new torso and pitch quirks are useful, but they are still pointless when the matchmaker pits your 600 tons with like 1 or 2 assaults team vs a 800 tons team with 9 assaults, 1 heavy and 2 lights. The match after that you start bringing heavy things and screw everything.

[Black Ghost]

Hey all,

Well I have to say that those changes didn't help after all. The problem is or was, that medium mechs have no real role on the battlefield. For capping: Take a light, like wise for harassing. For brawling most heavies and assaults do a better job. Also mediums have a short lifespan if you're not a experienced pilot, lights are harder to hit because of size and speed, heavies and assaults have the armor to withstand a mistake and mediums? Well nothing they're rather large and good to hit, they haven't as much armor as a heavy or even an assault and the speed isn't good enough to get out of the situation in one piece.

I have to agree that mediums could need buff in acc/deacc and or a meta bonus like saving weight so get more c-bills and xp. What we need is more mediums again on the battlefield so that the medium chassis have a purpose again.

Cheers,
Black Ghost

[TELEFORCE]

I love the increased pitch angle for my HBK-4H. I can peek over hills easier and pop a target with my AC/20

I haven't tried my Centurion yet, but I imagine it will be more enjoyable now as well.

I'm looking forward to the proposed missions/activities for mediums in-game as well as tonnage-balanced matchmaking

[Doctor Proctor]

Toumaline, I'm trying out the UAC-5 in my HBK-4G. An AC/40 Jager rolls around the corner and begins firing. I try circling him, but he's tracking me and not allowing me to get around to his backside. I try running up a slope, which I get stuck on, but he's able to track me anyway since he has high arm mounts. So, I turn and try to fight (had been taking pot shots when possible before that) and was promptly destroyed in under 5 seconds because his AC/40's were chainfired, thus avoiding the heat scale penalty, and could easily tear through my armor in a single salvo.

What didn't save me there? Well, Torso Twist certainly didn't. Neither did speed. Granted, I was running the STD 250, but if you turn to run from an AC/40 Jager at 89.1kph (or even at 98kph) you'll just get pummeled because you're only about 20% faster than he is. It's just not enough speed, not enough acceleration and certainly not enough maneuverability to just disengage like a Light can.

Firepower won't work either since I can AT MOST mount roughly half that kind of pinpoint firepower with an AC/20 build (I realize I have lasers, but they're a joke when dealing with a high pinpoint build since they'll just twist and then reaquire you 3 seconds later in time to fire, whereas I have to pain them for a full second to spread damage all over). A build that's basically impossible running a STD275 or XL engine. Armor is practically meaningless two, since basically two to three salvos will basically destroy whatever I put on, whereas I need that many just to get through the EXTERNAL ARMOR, let alone the internals.

Nothing in the new tweaks helps me get around and behind an opponent like this, or even get away from them without sacrificing EVEN MORE firepower. Which of course means an even greater TTK against an opponent who has more firepower and more armor. We need something better than a mild increase in our Torso Pitch to make us viable against enemies that can basically double our firepower.

Edited by Doctor Proctor, 21 August 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Bront]

Yeah, didn't really help. They need the maneuverability adjustments.

[tuffy963]

Mediums need tonnage limits installed in the match maker so that players can opt to bring more mediums than an opposing force fielding assaults. That will make mediums more appealing, when they out number the assaults.

[Ryvucz]

When "agility" was mentioned, I thought better acceleration and deceleration along with faster turning.

Not more arms flailing and torso angles.

[Urdnot Mau]

Great. Now my Centurion can aim above my monitor. Now i can fire at mechs i don't see

DUH !

This is what those "buffs" are. Torso speed might make them feel move agile, but they are just as vulnerable to the metagame now as they were before.

Edited by Urdnot Mau, 22 August 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[Zphyr]

It's a good beginning and a step towards the right direction. For this, as a medium pilot often forced to play heavies for survivability, appreciate your effort.

Unfortunately, even with this buff mediums are still as fragile as ever. Sure we can turn faster and with luck sacrifice an arm or two to protect the torso quicker, but honestly I felt close to no change. It's there, I can feel it... but it does not help much in the middle of a fight. It's better but still not enough to make more people want to play them at all - however, please... please don't buff mediums to OPness.

[borisof007]

What mediums, and frankly all of the weight classes and chassis need, are a revamp of pilot tree skills.

Individual mech quirks are OK, but the same Pilot tree skills aren't necessarily important for each chassis, and each weight class could get something different. Or, if you really want, have a general tree with weight class/chassis specific pilot skills mixed in.

Lights' pilot trees could focus on things for scouting: Movement, sensors, maybe event countermeasures (effectiveness of BAP, TAG, NARC?), extended thermal/nightvision range?

Medium pilot trees could be focused increased acceleration/braking power, turning speed, ability to have them climb hills better/reduce effect of slopes, increased jump jet regeneration rate (maybe this should be standard? If you have an engine that's bigger than the stock one, your JJ's regen faster? Same for lower rated engines, JJ's regen slower? Just a thought as this would give another dynamic to engine choices)

Heavy pilot trees could focus more on firepower and support: Reduced cockpit shake from jumpjets, Reduced seismic impact from running, Reduced cockpit shake from weapons fire impact, Cooldown reduction for weapons,

Assault mechs should be completely battle focused, with no movement bonuses given so that native pilot skill would be absolutely crucial. Assault tree could focus on Heat dissipation rate, Max heat increase, Mech startup/shutdown speed, Reduced thermal footprint, Some others I can't think of right now XD

These are just things I thought of off the top of my head. Obviously open to critique and adjustment, but I feel like roles/weight classes need to feel more "defined" than they currently are.

[Monky]

I like the buffs but engine speed buffs didn't go far enough. a 300 on the hunchback (and centurion) is about the minimum that will be viable. Also, turning speed needs to be upped in some cases.

Edited by Monky, 22 August 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[Flying Judgement]

My report:
well i got exited about this but torso twisting is already big enough in mediums so further increase didnt made any difference for me.

in the Hunchback:
its still not strong enought not fast enough Twisting alright but it dosent matter when i cant runn away or turn around a corner and crashing to a wall instead so its need more tuning
side note.
well i bought back my old hunch what i sold tried it and i couldn't stand the fact that my average damage was less the 70.
so i sold it after playing a few hours with it. its the same horrible as it was before i tried the 4G gathered enough XP to open elite and master half way.

In the Trebuchet: it was quiet fine before. it could twist fast i could do quiet good in the trebuchet before and now didnt notice any difference same stats same its maybe better but after elite its so fast that its just become hard to use.
Its fine and balanced previous stats were fine already. so its not a buff its the same as before.

In the Cicada: same issue no difference in performance well or maybe harder to aim it was already so fast that it was hard to aim and make micro movement. i preferred the speed of my cicada before editing it i wish i could choos between them yep it feels harder to use and with low FPS its near impossible. so the twist speed is rather a limitation.

the plus torso twist welll XD i was trolling people ok running forward and locking behind me hahah sure they were suprised but i died quiet fast. its a nice bonus but its so hard to use just a very few pilot can take advantage of them.

i will ask my team how every one feels about them but as i could see not to mutch of a difference
I hope with the new UI will make u able to tweak different things in a mech as the present tipe of buffs didnt made them better different hardpoint heat armor speed turning may better but its hard see what would be the best.

have a nice day keep up the good work!

[Waritec]

I played in trebuchet 3K and Hunchback sp and didn't feel any changes.

[sabujo]

I find these buffs a good start, specially considering the angle limitations Cicada and Blackjack had (still have, but are a bit more bearable). However I reckon that this is not enough and has other users have already said, acceleration, decceleration and turn speed buffs are needed.

I do want to believe PGI is releasing these adjustments in fractions in order to measure it's impact, because it is the natural thing to do in a beta-state game.

[William Knight]

It's fantastic, it's just fantastic.

Iv'e only tested the HBK-4G so far but:

Twist range allows you to run past a target, fire a few shots over your shoulder and get back into cover with minimum return fire

Twist speed allows you to spread damage about your mech and when coupled with the twist range allows you track and kill light targets with ease.

The increased engine size offers some nice tactical choice for builds (it may be "only" 10kph faster but that's enough to keep me safe)

In all the HBK-4G is now a fantastic little mech that is worth more than weight.

Edited by William Knight, 23 August 2013 - 07:13 AM.