24 replies to this topic

[BlackIronTarkus]

Is that Im afraid mechs, especialy the three 55 tons, will be way oversized. Just like the quickdraw and more recently the kintaro which are the size of assaults.

Sine I never make it on the first page of ask the devs I wonder if one of you fellow pilots would ask them about this. Basicaly if the 55 tons will be as they should be instead of another highlander clone.

Thanks!

Ps: from my phone.

[PEEFsmash]

From the look of it, the Sabre 55 tonners can't possibly be better than the Centurion because they appear to have bulky frames and no high-mounted Energy or Ballistic slots. There are no good mechs that have only low-mounted Energy/Ballistic and large bodies considering tonnage, and there probably never will be. If you only want mechs that are going to be good and possibly competitive, I see nothing in the Sabre package worth buying, but quite a bit of promise in the Shadowhawk and Battlemaster. If you gotta collect em all, then you gotta collect em all, I guess.

[Homeless Bill]

I didn't buy on principle, but I'm not so sure I would either way. Two more sub-par-looking 55 tonners (compared to the Shadow Hawk anyways)? If I need a bulky ride with sad hardpoints, I'll just pull out one of my Awesomes.

[NineTails]

I'm not sure what odds I'd lay, but on a basic 1-to-1, I'd bet against the Battlemaster being worth it vs the Stalker. Unless the BLR turns out... odd, the Stalker will have the same general hardpoint-ability with a small profile and side torsos that shield the CT.

To be dead honest, the entire Phoenix package doesn't have a single 'mech that I expect to match up well with the ones we already have. One of the 55 tonners might end up interesting, I suppose, but even with 10 extra tons, it'll be hard to beat the CN9.

[Angel of Annihilation]

PEEFsmash, on 28 August 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

From the look of it, the Sabre 55 tonners can't possibly be better than the Centurion because they appear to have bulky frames and no high-mounted Energy or Ballistic slots. There are no good mechs that have only low-mounted Energy/Ballistic and large bodies considering tonnage, and there probably never will be. If you only want mechs that are going to be good and possibly competitive, I see nothing in the Sabre package worth buying, but quite a bit of promise in the Shadowhawk and Battlemaster. If you gotta collect em all, then you gotta collect em all, I guess.

Totally matter of opinion on all this.

My current favorite mech is a Cataphract 3D armed with 2 LL, 2 ML and 1 LB-10X, all my heavy weapons are mounted in the low slung arms and I have no problems being successful in this mech.

As far as the Wolverine being better than the Centurion, well that depends on how much importance you place on the extra mobility JJs provide. Obviously you don't find that JJs are important but alot of people, including myself do. Also the only thing that makes the Centurion worthwile is the zombie capabilites with a standard engine. Throw an XL in a Centurion and it is just as bulky and wide as the rest of them.

[Angel of Annihilation]

NineTails, on 28 August 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

I'm not sure what odds I'd lay, but on a basic 1-to-1, I'd bet against the Battlemaster being worth it vs the Stalker. Unless the BLR turns out... odd, the Stalker will have the same general hardpoint-ability with a small profile and side torsos that shield the CT.

To be dead honest, the entire Phoenix package doesn't have a single 'mech that I expect to match up well with the ones we already have. One of the 55 tonners might end up interesting, I suppose, but even with 10 extra tons, it'll be hard to beat the CN9.

The Battlemaster as opposed to the Stalker will likely not have as much Side Torso vulnerability, can shield its body with its arms and can mount up to a 400XL allowing it to go almost 84 kph with Speedtweak. I think there is a very good chance that the Battlemaster be very competitive against a Stalker.

Also the Wolverine will be a Centurion with JJs so just like the QD kind of replaced the Dragon due to JJs, the Wolverine might replace the Centurion.

[NineTails]

Viktor Drake, on 28 August 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

The Battlemaster as opposed to the Stalker will likely not have as much Side Torso vulnerability, can shield its body with its arms and can mount up to a 400XL allowing it to go almost 84 kph with Speedtweak. I think there is a very good chance that the Battlemaster be very competitive against a Stalker.

To my way of thinking, the flip side of 'side torso vulnerability' is 'takes less damage to the CT when being shot at because side torsos intercept the shots'. It does mean that you shouldn't mount an XL, but since XLs already come with limitations, it's not a huge problem in a lot of ways.

The Battlemaster's arm shields will probably help some of that, though. It'll definitely be a factor.

400s are so heavy. Spending that much on the engine is going to leave a very light payload.

Viktor Drake, on 28 August 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Also the Wolverine will be a Centurion with JJs so just like the QD kind of replaced the Dragon due to JJs, the Wolverine might replace the Centurion.

I would be genuinely surprised if the Wolverine could replace the CN9 in that fashion. One of the reasons that the Quickdraw was able to replace the Dragon is that the Dragon was pretty bad at being what it was. The hitboxes were terrible. The CN9's hitboxes, by way of contrast, are part of what make the 'mech what it is. It's possible that the WVR will match that, but I honestly don't expect it.

[ricardox]

CN9 zombie slots are in CT (2 slots) while wolverines are in the head (1 slot)..

Bought the Phoenix Pack.. but this "extension" seems subpar to me.. especially with respect to SHD-2H.

[Royalewithcheese]

NineTails, on 28 August 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

To be dead honest, the entire Phoenix package doesn't have a single 'mech that I expect to match up well with the ones we already have.

They all look pretty DOA to me as well. The Thunderbolt might have had a chance if they included that ECM variant, but it still would probably have been Awesome hueg.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 28 August 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

NineTails, on 28 August 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

To my way of thinking, the flip side of 'side torso vulnerability' is 'takes less damage to the CT when being shot at because side torsos intercept the shots'. It does mean that you shouldn't mount an XL, but since XLs already come with limitations, it's not a huge problem in a lot of ways.

The Battlemaster's arm shields will probably help some of that, though. It'll definitely be a factor.

400s are so heavy. Spending that much on the engine is going to leave a very light payload.

First your somewhat right about the Stalker, its super large side Torsos do soak up alot of damage and make it impossible you to hit the CT except for being dead face on. However, unlike the Stalker, none of the Torsos project way out from the sides of the mech which means it is alot less vulnerable from the side and even a bit to the rear as I can usually hit the Stalkers sides even from slightly behind them. Basically you still have the dead on facing vulnerabilities in a Battlemaster but alot less vulnerabilies from the sides and as I mentioned the arms will make side shots even more difficult.

As to the weight of the 400XL engine, you would be surprised. Here is the build I am going start off with.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...05ed697d96e21a4

400XL with ER PPC, 6 ML and 2 MGs, 22 DHS and almost 84 KPH.

Obviously, you could cut down on the engine and pack in even more firepower, but that level of firepower at max armor with an 84 kph run speed is still impressive and one of the biggest factors is that no matter how you slice it, mounting an XL in a Stalker is sucide where it likely won't be in a Battlemaster. This means the Battlemaster has a stong potential to always outclass a Stalker in speed and mobility. Also you have fully articulated arms and if you know how to use them, they make a huge difference in your ability to aim and hit the enemy.

Quote

I would be genuinely surprised if the Wolverine could replace the CN9 in that fashion. One of the reasons that the Quickdraw was able to replace the Dragon is that the Dragon was pretty bad at being what it was. The hitboxes were terrible. The CN9's hitboxes, by way of contrast, are part of what make the 'mech what it is. It's possible that the WVR will match that, but I honestly don't expect it.

The Centurion Hitbox advantages only extend to its ability to zombie two medium lasers for a bit longer than most mechs. Otherwise it will have the same issues as the Wolverine meaning you will still be able to strip off its gun arm and missiles just as quickly. This is advantage that is totally negated by using an XL which alot of Centurion pilots do. However you get added mobility in the form of JJs. Therefore you may be right that it won't replace all Centurions if they go for zombie builds however, for anything other than a zombie, I can definately see the Wolverine being a better choice if from no other reason than the extra mobility JJs give it.

[PEEFsmash]

Viktor Drake, on 28 August 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Obviously you don't find that JJs are important

PEEF.......obviously doesn't find JJs important..........

That hurts to read.

JJs do not "Make" a mech. They CAN make a mech better, but do not guarantee it. (Quickdraw...Blackjack...) The other factors have to be in place first.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 28 August 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[NineTails]

Viktor Drake, on 28 August 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

The Centurion Hitbox advantages only extend to its ability to zombie two medium lasers for a bit longer than most mechs. Otherwise it will have the same issues as the Wolverine meaning you will still be able to strip off its gun arm and missiles just as quickly. This is advantage that is totally negated by using an XL which alot of Centurion pilots do. However you get added mobility in the form of JJs. Therefore you may be right that it won't replace all Centurions if they go for zombie builds however, for anything other than a zombie, I can definately see the Wolverine being a better choice if from no other reason than the extra mobility JJs give it.

I'm not going to defend people who mount XLs on their CN9s here. For people who are inclined to.... do that sort of thing, one of the 55s is probably going to be much better.

Your BLR points are interesting and I take them seriously. It will be interesting to see which factors turn out to be the most dominant when the BLR launches and we can see how it stands up the alternatives in practice.

[Tor6]

Well that and the lies.

[Vox Scorpus]

I just didn't buy into it for the same reason I'm not Premium anymore... got laid off a few months back and saving the green! Otherwise I would have. Why not? Sure you can compare all the tech specs for the mechs and decide they are not worth it or you can do the same job with a different mech. BUT, where is the fun in that? I would like to at least drive the new ones and play around with different weapons and at least get a feel for them. Then if I don't like it - sell it. Already done that several times.
Now I'm also an old school classic Battletech player and to be able to play a Battlemaster would just be cool. That would be a good reason too. Yeah you have to put up some real money for this and not everyone wants or can do that, but if you can then do it! Then you can tell me if the Battlemaster rocks or not!

[Your Friend Mr Rogers]

PEEFsmash, on 28 August 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

PEEF.......obviously doesn't find JJs important..........

That hurts to read.

JJs do not "Make" a mech. They CAN make a mech better, but do not guarantee it. (Quickdraw...Blackjack...) The other factors have to be in place first.

I am unsure if you are using the blackjack as an example of a bad mech with JJs? All I have to say is the blackjack is the best medium mech, because of its small frame, hardpoints, AND JJs. End of story. In fact JJs are a huge factor in my gameplay as a blackjack. The only reason I have not tried anymore mediums since I bought the blackjack was, it just did everything better (aside from being a zombie of course).

Just my 2 cents, if you ask me JJs can make or break certain mechs, and of course JJs are a benign feature on certain mechs as well.

[Lyoto Machida]

Viktor Drake, on 28 August 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Totally matter of opinion on all this.

My current favorite mech is a Cataphract 3D armed with 2 LL, 2 ML and 1 LB-10X, all my heavy weapons are mounted in the low slung arms and I have no problems being successful in this mech.

As far as the Wolverine being better than the Centurion, well that depends on how much importance you place on the extra mobility JJs provide. Obviously you don't find that JJs are important but alot of people, including myself do. Also the only thing that makes the Centurion worthwile is the zombie capabilites with a standard engine. Throw an XL in a Centurion and it is just as bulky and wide as the rest of them.

I played a couple 12 mans against PEEFsmash, Soy and some of the other DV8 guys. I'd say he/they are pretty familiar with JJs and CTF-3Ds...

[PEEFsmash]

Your Friend Mr Rogers, on 28 August 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

I am unsure if you are using the blackjack as an example of a bad mech with JJs? All I have to say is the blackjack is the best medium mech, because of its small frame, hardpoints, AND JJs. End of story. In fact JJs are a huge factor in my gameplay as a blackjack. The only reason I have not tried anymore mediums since I bought the blackjack was, it just did everything better (aside from being a zombie of course).

Just my 2 cents, if you ask me JJs can make or break certain mechs, and of course JJs are a benign feature on certain mechs as well.

If you think that the Blackjack is better than the Centurion that it really is "end of story" lol

Blackjack isn't terrible but it isn't that good either. The best one is the one without JJs.

[TerrorOfDeath]

Waiting for Clan mechs are the only reason why I continue playing....Not some mechs from unknown tech universe just to suck ur $$$ . Until tonnage limitations are set most medium mechs are {Scrap} most of the time when you are facing many heavy and assaults .

[Khobai]

Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Griffin... theyre all the same mech practically. Why would you pay for the same thing twice, let alone three times?

[Ralgas]

i likes a challenge

Edited by Ralgas, 29 August 2013 - 03:30 AM.