92 replies to this topic

[Tice Daurus]

I'm ripping this word for word from an earlier post here, but this explains the outrage many of us are currently feeling at this moment...

Quote

For the people saying it doesn't give you an advantage, even PGI saying that...they are full of it. But even if we were to put this issue aside,, we were strictly told that we would NEVER be forced to battle in games that if we were strictly in a 1st person view that we would go against people in a 3rd person view. And as of right now, we're being forced to battle to where we can switch between 1st and 3rd person view. PGI promised us this wouldn't happen, and now it's happening, and what kills me the most is how Bryan posts his thing that PGI says that they are considering putting 1st person ONLY view for all players on a backburner so they can focus on other more important issues.

We want to express to PGI that this is not overreaction, but that a core group of players feel that PGI has broken their promise to us, which they have. Part of me is just hoping that PGI comes out and says "Surprise! We were just yanking your chain! Prepare for the new patch where we're throwing in 1PV!!! We just trolled you hard!" If that was the case, well, I'd still be a bit upset, but I'd be relieved that PGI kept their promise and put 1stPV back in.

But so far, they haven't. Bryan's posted his response. Paul's posted his response. And I and many other players have posted ours. Some people won't play this game anymore until 1PV is put back into the game. Others have uninstalled the game. Others are now currently asking for their money back on some purchases. And even a few players are discussing possible lawsuits and notifying people to file for bait and switch illegality.

The issue isn't 3PV. It's PGI breaking what many people thought was a promise to people here saying they would never force people to play 1st/3rd person view mix. Bryan said it, and now he went back on his promise to the players. And now, PGI will pay the price for them blatantly lying to their players base and breaking their promise to us.

One final thing for the people complaining that we're crying about 3PV....well, we are, somewhat...but that's not the point. The point is Bryan from PGI gave us his promise from PGI's stance that this was never going to happen. It has. On top of it, he now says that PGI isn't going to put in 1PV servers until they fix other more important key issues. My response to Bryan, Paul, Russ, and all of PGI is that this...is your MOST KEY IMPORTANT ISSUE EVER FOR PGI, keeping your word. And if you don't do right by us, expect a sh*tstorm to follow. And this is not me threatening PGI to do right by us or else thread. This is not me or the rest of the player base throwing a tantrum. I don't want to turn this into a "PGI SUX" thread. All I am saying is this and I'll make this the TL;DR version here for everyone...

TL;DR - We the player base are upset at PGI for blatantly breaking their promise to the player base in which we are being forced to play in a mixed server system with both 1PV/3PV players which can switch back and forth, when we were promised that 1PV players could play the game with all 24 players in a match play in a strict 1PV ONLY matchup. The issue isn't how bad 3PV is, it's about PGI KEEPING THEIR PROMISE TO US.

For everyone that AGREES with this, please post your LIKE for this post to show PGI we are seriously upset with PGI and this is what we're really mad about.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 20 August 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[Deathlike]

Personally.. I think they don't think they will care, until people can actually demonstrate to PGI that we are serious. I still would rather have people not play the Wednesday after patch day aka "Disapproval Wednesday" where the inactivity of the playerbase will hopefully demonstrate to PGI that we disapprove of their patch change... showing how bad PGI/MWO will be when they continue to ignore key issues and complaints that have been repeated to them ad naseum. I'm not saying that every balance change should be made, but they have to take serious steps to communicate instead of dictating how they prefer MWO is to be addressed...

Oh well. I don't think this will go anywhere anyhow. This is where all good feedback go to die.

[Joachim Viltry]

Amen brother.

[Tice Daurus]

I've already told them I will no longer be playing the game, buying anything else, or supporting their BETA testing until 1PV is put back into the game. It's as simple as that. Until it's in, this game goes on a backburner, and I'll be busy elsewhere.

[Wired]

Lets be honest here, their reasoning for adding this mode in to begin with was that so players could learn to orientate the mech with the legs, and their implementation completely FAILS to do that on any large mech.

There is no reason for 3pv as it is currently implemented.

[Tice Daurus]

Wired, while I agree with you on this, again, the real issue is PGI blatantly broke their word to us. We all need to express to them that this cannot be tolerated and on this issue, 1PV needs to be completely separated with their own servers.

[StandingCow]

Deathlike, on 20 August 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Personally.. I think they don't think they will care, until people can actually demonstrate to PGI that we are serious. I still would rather have people not play the Wednesday after patch day aka "Disapproval Wednesday" where the inactivity of the playerbase will hopefully demonstrate to PGI that we disapprove of their patch change... showing how bad PGI/MWO will be when they continue to ignore key issues and complaints that have been repeated to them ad naseum. I'm not saying that every balance change should be made, but they have to take serious steps to communicate instead of dictating how they prefer MWO is to be addressed...

Oh well. I don't think this will go anywhere anyhow. This is where all good feedback go to die.

At this point... they can not care all they want, but I want my money back and go happily to star citizen.

[Wired]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Wired, while I agree with you on this, again, the real issue is PGI blatantly broke their word to us. We all need to express to them that this cannot be tolerated and on this issue, 1PV needs to be completely separated with their own servers.

I agree, they broke their word. But approaching it from that angle is not going to help because they will just say "That was my stance at that time". Also, random screenshots clearly do not help as they are dismissed as bugs.

The only way to victory here is to both show them that their implementation does not meet their stated goals(probably the same problem I listed above) nor the community positive expectations, while proving to them through gameplay videos that this is a broken and abuse-able game mechanic.

They want the smoking gun, we need to give it to them.

PS - I would like to note that I fully appreciate the tone and message in your post. The biggest problem in this community has been the exact opposite - range and hate posts ever since they first started tweaking repairs and XL engines.

Edited by Wired, 20 August 2013 - 09:06 PM.

[Archon Adam Steiner]

3PV is not going to make a bad player into a good player, nor a great player into some sort of god-mode terror. It isn't. The people who see it fundamentally altering 'the balance of power' or some other such rubbish are over-exaggerating.

The real issue is the optics; PGI said one thing, then did another. One could say they lied, or one could say they simply changed their mind. Both are valid. They did indeed do something they said that they wouldn't, but this is also Beta (whether people want to believe that or not), and many other such instances of 'saying one thing, doing another' have been repeated by developers one-hundred fold and more across scores of online games. What PGI did isn't right, but it isn't unusual. If this change had happened mid 'live' Community Warfare, I'd be grabbing a pitch-fork, too. As it is, it's a disappointment and reason to be skeptical of future promises.

Fundamentally, this is a communication failure on PGI's part - an image problem - and less of a 'game' problem. Let us be honest, the PPC/Gauss meta is a lot more damaging than being able to see a bit more than one used to be able to see.

[Wired]

Arrachtas, on 20 August 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

3PV is not going to make a bad player into a good player, nor a great player into some sort of god-mode terror. It isn't. The people who see it fundamentally altering 'the balance of power' or some other such rubbish are over-exaggerating.

The real issue is the optics; PGI said one thing, then did another. One could say they lied, or one could say they simply changed their mind. Both are valid. They did indeed do something they said that they wouldn't, but this is also Beta (whether people want to believe that or not), and many other such instances of 'saying one thing, doing another' have been repeated by developers one-hundred fold and more across scores of online games. What PGI did isn't right, but it isn't unusual. If this change had happened mid 'live' Community Warfare, I'd be grabbing a pitch-fork, too. As it is, it's a disappointment and reason to be skeptical of future promises.

Fundamentally, this is a communication failure on PGI's part - an image problem - and less of a 'game' problem. Let us be honest, the PPC/Gauss meta is a lot more damaging than being able to see a bit more than one used to be able to see.

Ok, yes outside of the issue at hand their inability to keep promises to the community has caused a major set back in player to developer faith. I agree with this fully.

[Tice Daurus]

Wired, on 20 August 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

I agree, they broke their word. But approaching it from that angle is not going to help because they will just say "That was my stance at that time". Also, random screenshots clearly do not help as they are dismissed as bugs.

The only way to victory here is to both show them that their implementation does not meet their stated goals(probably the same problem I listed above) nor the community positive expectations, while proving to them through gameplay videos that this is a broken and abuse-able game mechanic.

They want the smoking gun, we need to give it to them.

PS - I would like to note that I fully appreciate the tone and message in your post. The biggest problem in this community has been the exact opposite - range and hate posts ever since they first started tweaking repairs and XL engines.

I also agree that we the players need to also provide them the proof aka the smoking gun to show PGI they messed up, but as you saying that they could just say that "Well we just recently changed our stance and this is how it is for now, deal with it..." will not fly with the player base. Mohandas K. Gandhi once said "You must be the change you want to see in the world." He believed that active, yet passive resistance is the true way to get people to see your point of view along with honest dialog with each other.
I do agree that if we no longer buy any MC, packages from PGI, participate in the BETA testing, that they won't be able to collect enough data. I know...wishful thinking, but I plan not to play anymore until they get in 1PV back into the game. No more MC purchases or purchases of any type for PGI. I'm completely done with the game until they get back in 1PV. There have even been some people who've completely removed the game from their computer as an act of protest and their displeasure in how PGI has bungled this situation.

We the players have the power, if we so choose to band together and show PGI our displeasure. We need to make this happen if we're to show PGI that we're serious in this and we mean business.

[Maleki]

They lied. Time for Skyrim for a month.

[Tice Daurus]

If this is Russ' stance, then this further means they don't intend to address this issue for the entire week. And if that's the case, I'm done playing with MW:O for the entire week, because this is Russ' way of politely telling us our opinions don't matter as far as I feel on the matter. I also posted a link to this thread in response to his on Twitter. I invite Russ, Bryan, and anyone else from PGI to respond to this. Again, I'm trying to keep this thread as civil as possible so this can be discussed in a sane reasonable manner.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 20 August 2013 - 09:35 PM.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Does anyone like the third person view at all? I doubt it.

[Tice Daurus]

lunticasylum, on 20 August 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Does anyone like the third person view at all? I doubt it.

Again, I could care less for 3PV. If people want to play it, fine. I'm not going to criticize them for their viewpoint.

What we want is 1PV ONLY put INTO the game for the people who want 1PV ONLY SERVERS. And many of us are sick of being lied to by people promising us one thing and then doing a near 180 degree turn, with NO communication that they would do this. They didn't consult us. They didn't even communicate this with us. They flat out just did it anyway, the devil be damned, and if the player base doesn't like it this way, well...according to Russ, he doesn't want to talk about it anymore and let's all just give this a week and just be happy little drone bees and continue working toward playing and having a good time. Uh-uh, it doesn't work that way.

They said no 3PV. They lied, but then they said, we're committed to honoring the people who want a separation of 3PV only and 1PV only, and they said it would be separated.
Now, we're in a state where 1PV are playing with 3PV players, and we're forced to play with both people and both sides, something the promised would NEVER happen. PGI lied...AGAIN. That's twice. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me for believing the lies. And now...I'm sick of it.

Once again, until 1PV comes back into play, I'm done. And so will a lot of other players.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 20 August 2013 - 09:55 PM.

[Zephyr Charge]

Deathlike, on 20 August 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Personally.. I think they don't think they will care, until people can actually demonstrate to PGI that we are serious. I still would rather have people not play the Wednesday after patch day aka "Disapproval Wednesday" where the inactivity of the playerbase will hopefully demonstrate to PGI that we disapprove of their patch change... showing how bad PGI/MWO will be when they continue to ignore key issues and complaints that have been repeated to them ad naseum. I'm not saying that every balance change should be made, but they have to take serious steps to communicate instead of dictating how they prefer MWO is to be addressed... Oh well. I don't think this will go anywhere anyhow. This is where all good feedback go to die.

as I said in the other thread, #saveMWO has been trying this for weeks now
and ignored as long

[Wintersdark]

lunticasylum, on 20 August 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Does anyone like the third person view at all? I doubt it.

I laugh every time a 3PV fan complains about it. It happens in probably 50% of my matches.

I just laugh and laugh. And cry a little.

[Wired]

As long time investors in this game, even though　they might say "That was my stance at that time" we owe it to ourselves to do just that one extra step before we throw our hands up in the air and prove it to them that this does not work. Heck, Russ is practically asking for it on twitter. Maybe their hands are tied and they had to do it, maybe they really wanted to put 3pv in. either way, while they have royally screwed up trust we cannot just give up now after a solid year of this game. Most of us are not getting our money back, so as my sig indicates, lets actually be active about this.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 20 August 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

I laugh every time a 3PV fan complains about it. It happens in probably 50% of my matches.

I just laugh and laugh. And cry a little.

The sad thing is... that we the players lose ultimately. Even if we show the proper way of expressing our defiance, it wouldn't solve the problem that is how this game is being managed.. and very likely it will be run into the ground.

I don't want the game to go, but this is not the way a very niche and yet dedicated fanbase of a fictional universe should never have to go down the way this is going. I don't even care about all the entire TT/BT background stuff... I just find fun stompy robots with reasonable customization cool... It's a lose-lose proposition now...

Edited by Deathlike, 20 August 2013 - 10:02 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

Zephyr Charge, on 20 August 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

as I said in the other thread, #saveMWO has been trying this for weeks now
and ignored as long

Zephyr, I can only hope that this is the straw that breaks the camel's back and we can all band together as a unified front and get more people to see that this is wrong on so many levels. I would also appreciate if we can get everyone from the #saveMWO people who signed on to please come here post a LIKE and get people to make this thread noticed. We need to take a further stand to get people to stand up and support this so we can show PGI that they are wrong. I'd appreciate if you could pass this along if possible?

Wired, on 20 August 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

As long time investors in this game, even though　they might say "That was my stance at that time" we owe it to ourselves to do just that one extra step before we throw our hands up in the air and prove it to them that this does not work. Heck, Russ is practically asking for it on twitter. Maybe their hands are tied and they had to do it, maybe they really wanted to put 3pv in. either way, while they have royally screwed up trust we cannot just give up now after a solid year of this game. Most of us are not getting our money back, so as my sig indicates, lets actually be active about this.

100 percent agreed. We can't just give up. We have to stay as vocal as possible about this and keep putting the pressure on PGI to make the change and soon.

Deathlike, on 20 August 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

The sad thing is... that we the players lose ultimately. Even if we show the proper way of expressing our defiance, it wouldn't solve the problem that is how this game is being managed.. and very likely it will be run into the ground.

I don't want the game to go, but this is not the way a very niche and yet dedicated fanbase of a fictional universe should never have to go down the way this is going. I don't even care about all the entire TT/BT background stuff... I just find fun stompy robots with reasonable customization cool... It's a lose-lose proposition now...

Deathlike, I can't agree with this. If you want change to happen, and I can't believe I'm quoting Michael Jackson on this one, you gotta stand up and make that change happen. God I feel weird saying that. But it's still true. Don't give up on MW:O! Keep forcing PGI to accept our position and keep a positive force to make them change their minds!

Edited by Tice Daurus, 20 August 2013 - 10:07 PM.