92 replies to this topic

[Wired]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

100 percent agreed. We can't just give up. We have to stay as vocal as possible about this and keep putting the pressure on PGI to make the change and soon.

Being vocal is not just enough though. Remember they justified 3pv by a silent non forum majority. Again, it has to be something tangible like actual gameplay.

[ICEFANG13]

Agree 100%. I dislike 3rd person, but that's something everyone can put aside, even the strongest white knights can't defend what they are doing is anything other than a lie or at the very least just terrible communication.

I think 3rd person is a problem, but how PGI acts and lies like it doesn't matter? That's a much bigger problem. Game won't last with devs acting like that.

[Trev Firestorm]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

. . .

Nailed it.
PP refund requested with a blurb to this effect, though definitely not as well stated.

[Gwaihir]

The amount of no forum posts legendary founders yelling in the patch day and feedback threads alone shows just what the "Silent majority" thinks.

Also, even a popular thread isn't enough to avoid getting quietly shoved out of the way- Just look at this guy:
http://mwomercs.com/...-other-players/

Quietly moved in to a random archived and locked feedback forum, where no one can even post new things to it. Not even k-towned, just ninja shoved under the rug.

[Trev Firestorm]

Wired, on 20 August 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

Lets be honest here, their reasoning for adding this mode in to begin with was that so players could learn to orientate the mech with the legs, and their implementation completely FAILS to do that on any large mech.

There is no reason for 3pv as it is currently implemented.

IMO that was simply another of their lies, it was done to try to attract that small group of gamers that play 3pv only games from the start. Why? No clue, but the implementation clearly shows their stated purpose was false (and/or serious incompetence).

[Deathlike]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Deathlike, I can't agree with this. If you want change to happen, and I can't believe I'm quoting Michael Jackson on this one, you gotta stand up and make that change happen. God I feel weird saying that. But it's still true. Don't give up on MW:O! Keep forcing PGI to accept our position and keep a positive force to make them change their minds!

The difference is that this is a game... not some sort of social change.

The fact is, we have barely gotten any reasonable, logical, or sound arguments from ANY of the devs from the decisions they make. The only thing that resembles one is Russ and his justification of 3PV... which is mindbogglingly bad. Stuff like a tutorial has been mentioned over and over and over and repeated like we were drunken MWs.. only to be primarily sidetracked of things of grave inconsequence like ghost heat and 3PV. They have made up their minds and the players be damned. That is their track record and they don't want us to repeat it... and there's plenty of valid reasons why.

[MustrumRidcully]

Maybe this game just doesn't need people that want to play in 1PV mode? Maybe we don't have enough money (or at least don't spend enough of it) to finance this game.

Or maybe people keep playing 3PV even if they don't like it, and it doesn't matter?

If you're not happy with the changes, your best options are:
- Got the Phoenix package? Ask for a refund.
- Stop buying more MC, and don't spend the MC you have.
- Stop playing.
- Voice your opinion. Don't rage, don't violate forum rules, just make it clear what you want from this game and PGI.

And if you like 1PV
- Keep playing
- Buy more MC if you can afford it
- Voice your Opinion

[Wired]

Gwaihir, on 20 August 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

The amount of no forum posts legendary founders yelling in the patch day and feedback threads alone shows just what the "Silent majority" thinks.

Also, even a popular thread isn't enough to avoid getting quietly shoved out of the way- Just look at this guy:
http://mwomercs.com/...-other-players/

Quietly moved in to a random archived and locked feedback forum, where no one can even post new things to it. Not even k-towned, just ninja shoved under the rug.

Just people who use sockpuppet accounts to keep their ideals separate from their money until now. No, seriously I am not white knighting.

[Tice Daurus]

I hope that doesn't happen to this thread. I'm trying very hard to keep this positive so we can let them know that we're angry with how this has been recently handled.

[Wired]

We will probably hear something in 8 hours, once everyone is awake again and looking at the aftermath.

[Gwaihir]

Yea, hopefully it gets through to the ones that matter. That's been my biggest issue for a long time- You can provide the most well reasoned, thorough, informed, etc, etc feedback through the forums, Garth, etc, but all indications so far is that it just gets ignored. Instead, we get blindsided by Ghost heat, this, or the upcoming "ghost delay ppc/gauss desynch" (which I am absolutely sure will be something abominable) out of nowhere, with no explanation, and no trials or chance to reverse poor decisions or systems that don't work.

I don't think they've realized that ignoring people long enough just leads to a feedback loop of more and more shrill yelling, until it gets to the point where the well is so poisoned neither side will listen to the other. Given the nature of the one sided relationship we have here, the only one that can even do anything about it is PGI. Hopefully they will before it's too late.

Edited by Gwaihir, 20 August 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[Chronojam]

It's a complicated issue. As you say, it's not just third person view, it's what third person view represents (the whole massive backtracking on all the old threads they posted on third person, and the fact it flies in the face of community response). That's why people are so upset.

Gwaihir, on 20 August 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

The amount of no forum posts legendary founders yelling in the patch day and feedback threads alone shows just what the "Silent majority" thinks.

Also, even a popular thread isn't enough to avoid getting quietly shoved out of the way- Just look at this guy:
http://mwomercs.com/...-other-players/

Quietly moved in to a random archived and locked feedback forum, where no one can even post new things to it. Not even k-towned, just ninja shoved under the rug.

I was looking for this today during my lunch break, no wonder I couldn't find it anymore. Holy {Scrap}, PGI.

[vijil]

Yup, the issue isn't the 3pv itself - personally I can take or leave it.

The issue is the lies. Since when was this sort of behaviour ok? I haven't been on these forums much at all, but it's pretty clear by now that people are being taken for a ride. I'll bet the devs are laughing all the way to the bank.

I can hear it now...

Random dev: "Hey Russ, I just told the player base again that we're never going to make the game P2W, LOL."

Russ: "LOLOL"

Edited by vijil, 20 August 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

This thread is largely in line with the #saveMWO and all the observations and complaints that lead to it.

[Wired]

Nekki Basara, on 21 August 2013 - 12:54 AM, said:

This thread is largely in line with the #saveMWO and all the observations and complaints that lead to it.

Dont coopt this.

[Nekki Basara]

I'm not co-opting anything, and to be honest the suggestion is laughable given that Tice Daurus has posted a link to his inevery #saveMWO thread looking for support (IE: the reverse could be argued). The simple fact of the matter is, what he identifies as the main problem here is the main problem that #saveMWO has been talking about.

He's completely right, but it's not a new message for the powers that be.

[Trev Firestorm]

Wired, on 21 August 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Dont coopt this.

He asked for #saveMWO support.

[Morang]

I agree with OP that the problem is not only 3PV and the way they implemented it. The problem is the trust.

Howere funny it sounds, multiplayer-only games hosted by publisher and involving grind for progress and micro-transactions are a long-term investment of time and (for those who choose to pay) money. And people want their gains (which took time to achieve and are now giving them more fun and power than beginning player has) to be safe. Trustworthiness of a party hosting the servers and providing services is far more crucial than trustworthiness of a developer or publisher of a single player game or a game with multiplayer hosted by players themselves. MW4 will be here and open for playing, modding and multiplayer even with developing and/or publishing company long dead. If company brings you a patch you totally don't like, you can always don't install it and keep playing older version, even hosting multiplayer servers running previous patch. Of course, you more often than not can access all the content of the game you bought at will using cheats, sometimes even purposely built into the game (IDDQD anyone?) and you usually can set some rules when running multiplayer servers (many more hardcore games than MWO have a 3PV camera, though its use can be restricted server-side).

But when it comes to online-only games, you depend on party which provides you services. You can stay in game for years. You can invest a lot of time and money into the game during your stay. You want your progress to be safe and you want the game not to mutate into something totally different from one you've got into to enjoy before.

Even if PGI will now take a step back and implement separate queues, this will not bring back the trust and the feel that my grind was not in vain and my money will be spent on something I want and that will stay that way. I felt unsafe first in the end closed beta, when after a wipe they went for money grab instead of testing. This led to refund of my Founders pack. Yet I still was telling myself that maybe that ship will sail. So after a final wipe I played from time to time, though never paid real money. I thought that maybe it all will settle down, that promises will be kept, then I will finally commit with some progress that I made during this "Open Beta", and also start to pay. Also with all the flaws and lackings the game was still fun someways. But already all the money and most of time I was free to spend on games went to World of Tanks instead. But PGI lied more and more, and now with mixed queue the game isn't fun anymore - I came there for in-cockpit experience and for competition with other players restricted to their cockpits, it was one of the core features that drove me to join. So now with game unfinished, unfun and unsafe not only I cease playing, but I have great doubts I'll rejoin even if certain changes will be made - as long as the development is run by the same team.

[Jungle Rhino]

On the bright side Firaxis just announced a proper expansion for X-Com coming out in November. We also have Rome 2 Total war in less than a month, Star Citizen, not to mention a host of cool looking Kickstarter CRPGs: Project Eternity, Torment, Wasteland 2

[Morang]

Jungle Rhino, on 21 August 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

On the bright side Firaxis just announced a proper expansion for X-Com coming out in November. We also have Rome 2 Total war in less than a month, Star Citizen, not to mention a host of cool looking Kickstarter CRPGs: Project Eternity, Torment, Wasteland 2

I tested World of Warplanes during Closed Beta, it now runs Open Beta, but I took a break until final wipe and launch (I played WoT instead, because of many sales and bonuses during anniversary which won't be wiped). Going to happen soon, so the dust will not have time to grow on my Saitek HOTAS. I can have all 3PV multiplayer fun I need in these better designed games. Looking forward for ArmA 3 as well for more intelligent experience. I doubt about Star Citizen, as with WoT and WoWP it's already almost too much online-only grinders for me, also I doubt that my rig will be able to run Star Citizen and be competitive (damn I doubt it will run ArmA 3 at all). I may give it a try though.