92 replies to this topic

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

For every person who wants split queues, there is another like myself that does not.

If I were pgi I would ignore the nerd rage from the hardcore sim / battletech community because those people love the franchise so much they will never stop or paying for this game.

That's why they cry so hard because they know they are trapped and throwing tantrums that their beloved game won't cater to their diehard fan whims.

[Corvus Antaka]

the onyl way to change PGI's mind would be to abuse the 3PV to win & dominate matches.

if you cant manage that, not playing won't do jack **** honestly.

I see no issues with 3PV in terms of gameplay advantage so far. the drone is actually a problem because if blinks out your location.

[Syrkres]

Deathlike, on 20 August 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Personally.. I think they don't think they will care, until people can actually demonstrate to PGI that we are serious. I still would rather have people not play the Wednesday after patch day aka "Disapproval Wednesday" where the inactivity of the playerbase will hopefully demonstrate to PGI that we disapprove of their patch change... showing how bad PGI/MWO will be when they continue to ignore key issues and complaints that have been repeated to them ad naseum. I'm not saying that every balance change should be made, but they have to take serious steps to communicate instead of dictating how they prefer MWO is to be addressed...

Oh well. I don't think this will go anywhere anyhow. This is where all good feedback go to die.

Why stop at Wednesday.

I have stopped playing the game until 1PV queues are in.

Final...

[Tice Daurus]

Asian Tupac, on 21 August 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

For every person who wants split queues, there is another like myself that does not.

If I were pgi I would ignore the nerd rage from the hardcore sim / battletech community because those people love the franchise so much they will never stop or paying for this game.

That's why they cry so hard because they know they are trapped and throwing tantrums that their beloved game won't cater to their diehard fan whims.

Asian, you don't understand. At Closed Beta, we were promised that this would NEVER be a 3PV game. Then Russ changed his stance, and though I didn't agree with it, he posted a logical response that more people would play a 3PV game and it would be easier to teach people how to maneuver a mech. And I was willing to see that, but the player base said that if you do this, you MUST keep 1PV as a separate from 3PV so we can play players strictly in a 1PV setup only. We asked them to do this, and they AGREED. We compromised with PGI. And they additionally promised that PGI would never force other players who want to play in a 1PV only to play with people who play both 1PV

Now, the current setup is that they've introduced 3PV, but they've gone back on their word and people currently HAVE to play with other people who are playing both in 3PV and 1PV and you can use switch back and force between the two to get a tactical advantage to see over and around a certain area or areas. It doesn't matter if you can see the 3PV drone blinking overhead to show that people are doing this or not.

For example, say the other team wants to ambush me or my team and they set up 5 guys with heavy firepower and PPC's to zap whomever sticks their head out of the cave in Frozen City map. If I'm a scout, I would be tactically smart that before I rush out, I quickly switch to 3PV for a couple of seconds, move myself around so that my camera moves around with me, and now I can see the 5 guys lined up like ducks in a row WAITING for me to come out. I can say to my team, "Hey I have 5 of them are in the C3-C4 area, 3 stalkers and two highlander snipers all waiting to pop out of the cave so they can nuke me." Now, if I was in 1PV, I would have had to commit out of the cave to have gotten that informational view. But with 3PV, I don't have to anymore and I don't have to die or even take a shot for that information! And the other team has lost a tactical advantage. They set up a firing line, they didn't move their legs for seismic, and what would have been a good tactical advantage to possibly quickly knock down a mech and gain a numbers advantage has backfired for them because of 3PV.

Do you understand why we who want a strict 1PV setup only are upset? It destroys the tactical advantages of planning ahead, preparing a decent tactical plan and ruins it because when mixed with 3PV, one scout with 3PV can destroy that plan.

Let's add another element to the equation...SPOTTING. With 3PV, I can angle my camera to where I can use the 3PV drone to help spot for LRM's. I can position myself to where the 3PV can help spot for me, and my team can LRM the {Scrap} out of the 5 guys waiting for me because they are standing still, and then target them and spot for them while they get pelted with LRM's. Or in another case, I can give my info via C3 or Teamspeak3 and tell my snipers or LRM boats where to line up on the ridge, pop them all and now I've gained an even bigger advantage!

So in actually, and with all due respect, you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. NONE. And even worse you are blind as you are ignorant to what is really going on here. A well versed team who can tactically gain an advantage using 3PV and then quickly switch back to 1PV can gain significant tactical knowledge that destroys the game entirely.

THIS IS WHY WE HARDCORE 1PV PLAYERS DO NOT WANT TO BE FORCED TO PLAY IN A MIXED 1PV/3PV SITUATION. And right now, we are being forced to do exactly that, because PGI wants to focus on fixing other stuff instead of giving us 1PV only back. And what's worse is how they are handling this situation. Not only are they blatantly saying if you want to play MW:O you have to play with the other players that want to use 3PV. And you can switch back and forth between the two. And we're not going to instate 1PV only for a while so we can focus on more important issues.

Asian Tupac, they lied to us, broke their promise, and now that some of us are upset, you say we're crying and whining about it. To put it bluntly, if someone said something to you and say I promise to pay you back $20 bucks. Then they say, you know, I've changed my mind, I'm not going to pay you back and honor my agreement to you. Wouldn't you be pissed? Wouldn't you be upset?

EDIT: Asian, if you further doubt my word, fine. But go to this thread and see if this shows you what is really happening:

http://mwomercs.com/...tracing-errors/

In this thread, you can see the problem is that 3PV give a person a distinct and clear tactical advantage as I was talking about before.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 21 August 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[Xiphias]

Asian Tupac, on 21 August 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

For every person who wants split queues, there is another like myself that does not.

If I were pgi I would ignore the nerd rage from the hardcore sim / battletech community because those people love the franchise so much they will never stop or paying for this game.

That's why they cry so hard because they know they are trapped and throwing tantrums that their beloved game won't cater to their diehard fan whims.

Perhaps, but the community wasn't promised that there wouldn't be split queues in the game now were they? How does saying "I like it better this way so it's okay" make you any better than the battletech fans who are yelling against third person because they like it better that way?

It might be true that some will stay because they love battletech, but it certainly isn't true for everyone. Mech Assault was battletech after all. I like battletech a lot. I have been playing since June of last year. I considered a Phoenix package, but held off buying one due to my concerns about the direction the game was taking. I will not be buying one now nor will I be spending any other money on this game.

I spent money on a founders pack and I've enjoyed the game and I feel I've gotten my money's worth out of it. I won't be asking for a refund like some. I will refrain from spending more money on the game and I will walk away if things get bad enough.

For the time being I'm taking a break from playing to give PGI a chance to get things sorted out. I have a lot of patience but it is not unlimited.

As always, please refrain from stereotyping, generalizing, and marginalizing people who disagree with you. Please use logic and reason in your arguments and refrain from being insulting in your responses. If you can't do that then you lack the maturity to be worth my time in discussion and I'll refrain from wasting any more time attempting to have a civil conversation

Edited by Xiphias, 21 August 2013 - 08:25 PM.

[Wired]

The interpretation I got from The Apology was that "oh, sorry we lied, but we clearly made the right decision because no one is abusing it"

Edited by Wired, 21 August 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[Erata]

If only there were a group of people interested in Saving MWO...

[Johnny Marek Summers]

I'm afraid I can't add much to this because I literally can't play the game right now. However, I would like to know why you can't just try playing this for a week, rack up lots of games both playing 3pv and 1pv, then after the week is over, storm the forums with "this is not working" (but only if it isn't) so you have real evidence to show them WHY it's not working besides that you don't want it to.

Make videos, take screenshots, show them it's not working. Boycotting shows them you disapprove, but it doesn't really help to get them to stop this if they don't want to. Given how much work that probably went into this, they aren't going to want to without tangible evidence.

Heck, given how much these patches seem to have a detrimental effect on their client, really try to play and if you get a bunch of crashes you get to flood them with support tickets. And get your buddies who crash to send tickets, after all the more information you give them, the faster they can fix this.

[Tice Daurus]

Folks, at this point...I'm throwing my hands up. I don't want to discuss anything else at the moment. I'm so disgusted with PGI right now, I'm just at a loss for words after Russ' 'apology' post.

Say what you will. I'm debating now if I want to leave.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 21 August 2013 - 11:24 PM.

[M0rpHeu5]

This is like Hero mechs all over again. If the big spenders had the willpower to restrain their wallet we'll all be a lot better now.

The sad thing is that PGI will for another time get away from this and in 6 month from now when a person rants about 3pv everyone else inglouding many haters will try to persuade him about how it doen't affect gamplay.
HIstory repeats itself.

[Lord of All]

Well they have ruined balance and tried a ton of bandaids and finally got a Frankenstein system partially working and then they Just BROKE the entire game in one fell M O R O N I C Swoop!

[CypherHalo]

Sorry, but here is on MW fan who really doesn't get all hopped up about the camera. I'm far more interested in the look and feel of the game. If I had to guess, I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers for this game are not adding up when it comes to revenue. Maybe I'm totally off-base there, I have no special inside knowledge. To me, it just seems that PGI has spent far too much time and energy trying to appease the most "hardcore" fans but has been leaving everyone else in the dust.

I mean, who cares about the tabletop rules? 1st vs 3rd person camera? That's somewhat of an issue but hardly as big a deal as the community is making it. God forbid you even THINK about adding respawns to the game, that makes you the equivalent of the devil around here. It took PGI how long to implement the cadet bonus? When myself and several others were telling them the grind was way too harsh for new players. Frankly, PGI has really dropped the ball IMO by not focusing enough on casual and PUG players. I'm all for having elements in there that the "hardcore" players like. That's cool, unlike them, I'm alright if someone enjoys the game in a different way then I do. However, PGI has spent far too much time ignoring the rest of the playerbase that doesn't go on the forums to QQ. IMO, if they added in a respawn mode (so every match doesn't just turn into TDM) and some bot matches, the game would go a long way towards becoming more enjoyable and would be far more attractive to new players. Then they could focus on things for the "hardcore" to their heart's content. That's my two cents at least, maybe I'm wrong, I can only speak for myself here after all. It's just that PGI keeps (belatedly) making moves that I think they should have made months ago and that cause the "hardcore" to rage.

[CypherHalo]

Tice Daurus, on 21 August 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

In this thread, you can see the problem is that 3PV give a person a distinct and clear tactical advantage as I was talking about before.

The only issue I see with all the situations you list is that you're assuming the team is coordinated. For PUGs, that simply isn't the case. I do agree with you that in a tourney type situation, there should be 1pv only. However, for the vast majority of players, it simply doesn't make a big deal because their team isn't coordinated enough to take advantage of 3pv like that. Honestly, I'm not sure why they don't split the queues, maybe their servers can't handle it? I would be fine if they did but the fact that they haven't also really doesn't bug me.

[Nekki Basara]

Adding respawns would basically be the promised "Dropship" mode from before closed beta that we totally got.

OH WAIT!

[Draco Harkins]

Asian Tupac, on 21 August 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

For every person who wants split queues, there is another like myself that does not.

If I were pgi I would ignore the nerd rage from the hardcore sim / battletech community because those people love the franchise so much they will never stop or paying for this game.

That's why they cry so hard because they know they are trapped and throwing tantrums that their beloved game won't cater to their diehard fan whims.

You're exactly whats wrong with this community, thank you for making my point and showing the quality of individual members that have no respect for the ones that actually give a damn,

[Tice Daurus]

Draco Harkins, on 22 August 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

You're exactly whats wrong with this community, thank you for making my point and showing the quality of individual members that have no respect for the ones that actually give a damn,

Draco, while I do NOT agree whatsoever with Asian Tupac's post at ALL, I agree emotions are running high here. Right now, I'm doing all I can to not publically lambast PGI and the part of the 3PV community here. I understand some of them like 3PV, and that's fine. I have no problem with PGI catering to them either. But they are completely ignoring the original community who WANT 1PV as their attitude seem unapologetic, aloof, and what's worse is that PGI seems blind to ignore the problems they have created here.

To answer some of the people here who've posted, yes many players are PUG's who don't join a group. But for the rest of us, we were in a group or currently are right now. And we can see that there will be if not are already people who are willing to abuse the 3PV camera POV so they can see over hills or around corners and use it to there advantage against the players who are still strictly playing in 1PV environment because they refuse to play in a 3PV.

To PGI, it doesn't MATTER if the other team players might be able to see a 3PV camera drone blinking at them. What happened to the element of surprise we used to have in 1PV is now gone because we can see over the hill or around the corner with the 3PV camera POV??? It's gone. If I can switch between 1st and 3rd person view in the game, I can gain advantages that I would never have had in just a 1PV setup. And PGI is ignorant and too blind to see it. They don't get it. Or even worse, they do get it, but they are doing this on purpose. And that's what grieves me the most...

If they are doing this on purpose, this then becomes a huge F*CK you to the MW:O community that was committed to playing only in the 1PV setting. And them making an about face, a complete 180 of their original stance to the game makes me wonder that because Microsoft owns the license for Mechwarrior, I'm wondering if Microsoft came in here, inserted themselves into the picture and said something to PGI and IGP about this.

I'm really wondering if this is indeed the case that Microsoft is forcing them to make this 3rd person so that they can put this out on XboxONE as a 3rd person shooter game like MechAssault.

[DragonsFire]

How does this post/information continue to get glossed over? It's unfortunate that this wasn't looked at sooner by both sides in this. I can't help but think that this may have helped, even if only a little bit, where 3rd person is concerned.

Ransack, on 22 August 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

For clarity on 3PV, it was planned all along. I hate to admit it, but it IS in the announcement FAQ.
Ransack, on 06 August 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:


On third person, they didn't lie, and its not IGP. Sadly enough it is in the announcement FAQ. I just had never paid attention to it.

First they say
Q. Can I get out of the Mech?

A. Will you be able to get out of the Mech? No. One of our gameplay design pillars is that we are putting you in the role of the pilot (MechWarrior®) in a first person perspective.


then they say


Q. Will you be able to switch from first-person to third-person views?

A. The game is played from the first person. We’re exploring ways to have a third person camera that make sense from a gameplay point of view.

All in the same FAQ from 2011.

copy of it here

...../snip

[M0rpHeu5]

1:38

[Elder Thorn]

i completly agree with OP's TL;DR

[Darkblood]

CypherHalo, on 22 August 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

I mean, who cares about the tabletop rules? 1st vs 3rd person camera? That's somewhat of an issue but hardly as big a deal as the community is making it.
[...]
Frankly, PGI has really dropped the ball IMO by not focusing enough on casual and PUG players. I'm all for having elements in there that the "hardcore" players like. That's cool, unlike them, I'm alright if someone enjoys the game in a different way then I do[...]

Here´s some instructive read on that matter (for those interested): http://www.gamesbrie...e-to-play-game/

For those too uninterested/lazy, the article (from an game business specialist) bottom line is: hardcore fans are the lifeblood of F2P games. By allowing them to spend as much as they want in your game you can still sustain yourself while keeping the game open to the free playing masses or casual spenders.

That´s your explanation of why PGI is worried about the franchise fans, they are the ones paying for this game so far. At the same time you need to guarantee a new generation of fans to be able to survive in the long run, WITHOUT LOSING YOUR MAIN REVENUE. That´s where they are messing it up.

(as said elsewhere, I already spent U$300 on this thing, but no more, simply because I can no longer trust the game to go where the DEVs said it would go. They change opinions too often for me to be betting my money on their word)

Edited by Darkblood, 23 August 2013 - 06:58 AM.