18 replies to this topic

[UnwantedProblem]

I was wondering,
Is AMS helpfull to lights? (given the current pug meta LRM+ppc-gauss snipers)

I was also wondering if AMS shoots at ssrm and/or srm.

If it takes out SSRM and SRM, I would love to have an AMS on my jenner, It would be very helpfull at taking out that huge damage from streaks (you don't have streaks, and you are against a Iight with streaks [namely Raven-3L, ecmmando, sara's Jenner], you gotta be a very good pilot to take him out).


I would like to see you opinions.

[ovie]

Yes AMS is usefull. AMS does shoot at SSRM/SRM however with the high speed of SRM missiles it is unlikely to shoot down more than 1 missile

[Dawnstealer]

Since they've sped up the LRMs, I've been debating this myself. And even taking out one SSRM is useful.

[Darwins Dog]

It's also good for helping to cover your buddies, if you are in an escort type role. As ovie said, it usually won't take out more than one streak or SRM (maybe two at max range, I don't know).

Usually there just isn't enough room on a light mech to make it fit.

There is also the chance that it will give away your position while you are sneaking. If you are hidden, but a flight of missiles goes overhead your AMS will shoot at it and your opponents will know where you are.

95% of the time my light mechs don't have AMS.

[UnwantedProblem]

I'm thinking to downgrade my XL from a 300 to a 295 on my jenner, so I have 1.5 tons more (1 DHS and 0.5 from the downgrade), well because of the 150 kph speed cap. (I haven't done that because you engine have to do with your torso twist speed).

here, link for the build I'm thinking http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a7b4663b7b99937
link for my actual build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1cb3facbf6ace9c

My actual build have 1 more DHS than the other build (In the other I can't fit another DHS without loosing a JJ)
I won't use the additional tonage on weapons, I like 6Mlas, it's pretty effective when you manage your heat well.
Less than 3 JJ would compromise my navigation and maneuverability, so, no, I won't take 2 JJ and 14 DHS on the 295XL build (and that gives me 1 ton free I can't spend...)

I hate SSRM, they are actually one of the best anti-light weapons, now I see them more often with the damage buff.

Sorry my bad english

[Nothing Whatsoever]

UnwantedProblem, on 21 August 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I'm thinking to downgrade my XL from a 300 to a 295 on my jenner, so I have 1.5 tons more (1 DHS and 0.5 from the downgrade), well because of the 150 kph speed cap. (I haven't done that because you engine have to do with your torso twist speed).

here, link for the build I'm thinking http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a7b4663b7b99937
link for my actual build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1cb3facbf6ace9c

My actual build have 1 more DHS than the other build (In the other I can't fit another DHS without loosing a JJ)
I won't use the additional tonage on weapons, I like 6Mlas, it's pretty effective when you manage your heat well.
Less than 3 JJ would compromise my navigation and maneuverability, so, no, I won't take 2 JJ and 14 DHS on the 295XL build (and that gives me 1 ton free I can't spend...)

I hate SSRM, they are actually one of the best anti-light weapons, now I see them more often with the damage buff.

Sorry my bad english

With the JR7-K you might be better off without AMS. Stay with the 300 XL.

I tend to run mine like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...791acf16890f895

[UnwantedProblem]

Is the extra DHS worth it? I almost never shutdown (except for greedy kills with all my teammates around), and when I do, they never take me into account (I think I'm lucky).

I don't run AMS because LRM don't hit me, well, they hit my legs and floor D:

[Nothing Whatsoever]

UnwantedProblem, on 22 August 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Is the extra DHS worth it? I almost never shutdown (except for greedy kills with all my teammates around), and when I do, they never take me into account (I think I'm lucky).

I don't run AMS because LRM don't hit me, well, they hit my legs and floor D:

There are times where that little bit extra was necessary in match on a hot map. I've settled on setting my MLs into three groups of two each to manage heat.

Otherwise you could go with 14 DHS and 4 JJs for extra height, but I tend to tap my JJs for turning and two have been enough for how I tend to use JJs.

[Xiphias]

AMS will shoot down SSRMs. It will not shoot down SRMs.

I would not recommend AMS on any light. Their are better usages of the 1.5 tons. AMS can also give you away when scouting if someone shoots LRMs near you. You don't want that to happen.

More speed is better and the extra DHS is definitely worth it. That build needs all the DHS you can mount.

[Bront]

It really depends on the build and your function. I found it useful on a non-ECM commando, yet have taken it off most of my Jenners, because they play different rolls and the amount of LRM and missile fire in general they take can vary.

I found if you spend a lot of time near the middle of the field, AMS will get drained anyway, so scout/spotter mechs may not personally get much use out of AMS, while a capper or harrasser mech may not draw enough missile fire to need it, or can simply outrun the missiles.

LRMs also tend to be hit or miss as to if the other team even has them, which can make or break an AMS's usefulness.

[UnwantedProblem]

The build that praetor posted is the fastest and with more DHS you can have (if you drop an <300XL [say 295 or lower] you will automatically loose a DHS, because of the FF armor [lack of slots]).
I like my build with 4 JJ and 14 DHS (instead of 2 JJ and 15 DHS), I can get to some places that 2 JJ will not reach, but sometimes, you don't even need the JJ, so, I'm considering taking that extra DHS and see what happens.

[Xiphias]

UnwantedProblem, on 22 August 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

The build that praetor posted is the fastest and with more DHS you can have (if you drop an <300XL [say 295 or lower] you will automatically loose a DHS, because of the FF armor [lack of slots]).
I like my build with 4 JJ and 14 DHS (instead of 2 JJ and 15 DHS), I can get to some places that 2 JJ will not reach, but sometimes, you don't even need the JJ, so, I'm considering taking that extra DHS and see what happens.

I wouldn't recommend taking off the armor that Praetor did. You gain a heat sink but you lose survivability. Probably the most competitive Jenner build (all around) is this one:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2d8e8fe3b9c135e

You lose a laser but you gain a heatsink, making it a lot more heat efficient than 6xML. You end up doing more damage overall because you are able to fire more often.

[NecessaryWeevil]

So is the consensus that lights don't need AMS because they can still outrun LRMs as they currently work? I'm not sure this is my experience, but that's subjective since while I'm running away I can't see what ratio of missiles is hitting me vs. hitting the dirt behind me.

Edited by NecessaryWeevil, 22 August 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

unless it has access to ECM, your light could use some AMS. when your flailing around at 150kph most of the missles hit at your feet behind you, so ams helps reduce off that number too a manageable amount of damage.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Xiphias, on 22 August 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I wouldn't recommend taking off the armor that Praetor did. You gain a heat sink but you lose survivability. Probably the most competitive Jenner build (all around) is this one:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2d8e8fe3b9c135e

You lose a laser but you gain a heatsink, making it a lot more heat efficient than 6xML. You end up doing more damage overall because you are able to fire more often.

Yeah, depending on how comfortable you are with your armor you can keep more on your Jenner and go with 5 ML in trade for a DHS.

I tend to die from losing CT from the Front or got legged. Very rarely do I lose an arm, and rarely do I die from losing a ST, which was why I run my Jenner like that sometimes. I fiddle sometimes with SLs and change up what I carry.

But now with SSRMs with their increased damage, having more armor could be necessary for now if its damage stays at 2.5 per missile.

And I guess its worth mentioning that I tend to PUG, so any match can leave me fending for myself, so that can be another element in how you set up your Jenners.

Edit: format & fix

Edited by Praetor Shepard, 22 August 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[Xiphias]

NecessaryWeevil, on 22 August 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

So is the consensus that lights don't need AMS because they can still outrun LRMs as they currently work? I'm not sure this is my experience, but that's subjective since while I'm running away I can't see what ratio of missiles is hitting me vs. hitting the dirt behind me.

Lights don't need AMS because they can avoid LRMs. You are fast enough to put terrain between you and the missiles. You might be able to outrun/dodge missiles with some good piloting, but you should be able to get out of the way. If you are caught out in the wide open, you have bigger problems and AMS isn't going to help that much.

Geist Null, on 22 August 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

unless it has access to ECM, your light could use some AMS. when your flailing around at 150kph most of the missles hit at your feet behind you, so ams helps reduce off that number too a manageable amount of damage.

AMS will help a little bit, but it's not worth the tonnage on a light. With proper use of terrain LRMs really shouldn't be much of an issue. If you are getting hit by a lot of LRMs it's better to adjust your piloting rather than adding an AMS. In my opinion that's just treating the symptoms, not the cause. It really isn't going to stop that many missiles and it gives away your position, which is something important to keep in mind.

Praetor Shepard, on 22 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Yeah, depending on how comfortable you are with your armor you can keep more on your Jenner and go with 5 ML in trade for a DHS.

I tend to die from losing CT from the Front or got legged. Very rarely do I lose an arm, and rarely do I die from losing a ST, which was why I run my Jenner like that sometimes. I fiddle sometimes with SLs and change up what I carry.

But now with SSRMs with their increased damage, having more armor could be necessary for now if its damage stays at 2.5 per missile.

And I guess its worth mentioning that I tend to PUG, so any match can leave me fending for myself, so that can be another element in how you set up your Jenners.

Edit: format & fix

I can definitely understand the reasoning behind stripping off some armor, you absolutely die most of the time due to CT or legs.

I do die from losing side torsos from time to time though. Streak hit locations will probably make this more likely, but another issue is that of alpha damage.

You have 16 internal side torso health. With your build you have 18/4 armor for at total of 34/20 health. With a default 22/10 armor split you have 38/26.

2xPPC = 20
1xPPC + 1xGauss = 25
2xPPC + 1xGauss = 35

The first two will kill your build if they hit the RST, the last one will kill you if it hits the FST. It makes you slightly more likely to die to a single salvo (in particular the 2xPPC Cicada).

It comes down to pilot preference, but in my experience the more armor you can put on a light the better.

[UnwantedProblem]

This is how my builds currently look like http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dcf6f33758b87e0

I almost never shutdown for overheating (only on tourmaline or terratherma when i'm not careful)

I almost always die from CT or ST (I don't know if that's good, but, I almost never loose my arms, and legged when all my internals are red). From legs, I die rarely, not so often. From headshots, thats almost never, like 3 games from 160.

I'm currently puging, and I'm getting 500 dmg average on the last games I played, so, I like my 6Mlas

[Funkupotamous]

I find that by being aware of your surroundings you can easily break line of sight unless you are being chased. 1.5 extra tons can usually benefit you more in terms of weapons/armor, but I've certainly seen my share of lights getting decimated by LRMs. Depends on your play style I guess.

[-Muta-]

If you dont have ECM ams might hel you a bit mate