271 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

So if you want 360 rotation what about the mechs with no waist? Like the Locust, Nova, Quads! The should get No twist at all. A 270 has been the standard for over 25 years gents. Flip arms was teh standard for firing while you ran away!!!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 June 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[BlindProphet]

Teralitha, on 14 June 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Yes I have explained it a dozen times or more, a dozen different ways in here and in the previous 360 topic. Your just not listening. I honestly dont expect you to read it all. I expect you to make another post claiming I havent explained my reasons, that I am just generally insulting people who are not on my bandwagon and that everything I say is incoherant.

I can speak coherantly and logically all day long and it still wont make you smart enough to understand anything Im saying. I already have had a few people who have posted in support of my arguements, that understand quite clearly my viewpoints, and agree with them. they understood me perfectly. They did not accuse me of being incoherant or dishonest. Yes I will insult you. Because by griefing me you are insulting me. Because you fail to understand my perfect logic, you insult me. All of your arguements are an insult to realism, and realism is an insult to battletech, and battletech is an insult to MWO.

I went back and re-read every single one of your posts in this thread just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I was going to even quote them all here, but it stopped reading the tags correctly.

"Yes I have explained it a dozen times or more, a dozen different ways in here ..."

You state clearly right there that you have explained the following points within this thread:

• Why the game needs 360 torso twist?
  
• Why the game is not diverse enough without 360 torso twist?
  
• How does 360 torso twist change the fact that, as you put it, all mechs do is move and shoot?

I've read through every post you've made in this thread. And you have not once explained your position outside of tossing out the word diversity. You have not explained how it adds to diversity. You have not explained how it adds to the game. All you've stated is that without 360 torso twist on a very very small selection of mechs you will burn out of the game (and infact 1/3rd of the game will with you) within a month or two.


Show me where...what posts in this thread have you made that explain all those questions? If I accidentally missed the quote please feel free to share it here. I'll be waiting with baited breath

[Teralitha]

blindprophet, on 14 June 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

I went back and re-read every single one of your posts in this thread just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I was going to even quote them all here, but it stopped reading the tags correctly.

"Yes I have explained it a dozen times or more, a dozen different ways in here ..."

You state clearly right there that you have explained the following points within this thread:

• Why the game needs 360 torso twist?
  
• Why the game is not diverse enough without 360 torso twist?
  
• How does 360 torso twist change the fact that, as you put it, all mechs do is move and shoot?

I've read through every post you've made in this thread. And you have not once explained your position outside of tossing out the word diversity. You have not explained how it adds to diversity. You have not explained how it adds to the game. All you've stated is that without 360 torso twist on a very very small selection of mechs you will burn out of the game (and infact 1/3rd of the game will with you) within a month or two.



Show me where...what posts in this thread have you made that explain all those questions? If I accidentally missed the quote please feel free to share it here. I'll be waiting with baited breath

Not listening as usual... Read this topic - http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Skymech]

Freyar, on 14 June 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Where's my popcorn.. this is just great to watch.

[BlindProphet]

Teralitha, on 14 June 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Not listening as usual... Read this topic - http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

No I listened.

You stated that you explained it in both places.

Quote

[color=#959595]Yes I have explained it a dozen times or more, a dozen different ways in here and in the previous 360 topic.

[/color]

I asked you to prove where you explained it here, since that is what you've claimed. You have only linked to the other topic, so I assume that your statement, quoted again above is a lie, as you have not explained it a dozen times or more a dozen different ways in this thread.

Again prove me wrong here...

Also I read all your responses in that thread and not once did you answer any of those questions...Lots of insults at people...but a whole heck of a lot of not answering any of the questions i've asked of you here.

[Skulls n Guns]

No, only the mechs who actually have 360 can use it. This poll is stupid. It makes the mech chassis's may too similar and less special.

Edited by Skulls n Guns, 14 June 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[Malisinn]

Hopelessly biased voting options. I don't care about the TT rules. I do not think 360 deg rotation is necessary or right to add to the game.

Teralitha hasn't even said anything in the majority of his "debunking" arguments except "not listening"

Pointless thread.

[Teralitha]

Malisinn, on 14 June 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Hopelessly biased voting options. I don't care about the TT rules. I do not think 360 deg rotation is necessary or right to add to the game.

Teralitha hasn't even said anything in the majority of his "debunking" arguments except "not listening"

Pointless thread.

pointless response

blindprophet, on 14 June 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

No I listened.

You stated that you explained it in both places.

[/size][/font][/color]

I asked you to prove where you explained it here, since that is what you've claimed. You have only linked to the other topic, so I assume that your statement, quoted again above is a lie, as you have not explained it a dozen times or more a dozen different ways in this thread.

Again prove me wrong here...

Also I read all your responses in that thread and not once did you answer any of those questions...Lots of insults at people...but a whole heck of a lot of not answering any of the questions i've asked of you here.

Then you dont know how to read. There is no point or reason to answer any of your ignorant questions. You are either for 360, or you arent. Good day.


Support 360, Support diversity

[RobarGK]

I am against 360 degree torso twisting on all but the most flawed mechs (urbanmechs )
It would be nice to have this thread as an actual discussion. Some of the pro 360 people have some solid arguments that can be discussed in a open manner that may cinvince people one way or the other.

Unfortunately those few have been drowned out by a single annoying and loud voice. This voice, by insulting the people who oppose his point of view repeatedly without any attempt to reason or discuss with said opposition, is actually swaying the favor against his cause. There were multiple times that if he had simply stopped posting that an open discussion would have begun, as evidenced by the reasonable posts made by other individuals.

Therefore I implore this individual (you all know who I am talking about) to leave this thread alone, or at the very least quiet down so others can be heard. Then this discussion could have its chance to flourish. If not, this thread will continue to be a half assed flame war and nothing will be accomplish, besides being mildly entertaining.

Edited by RobarGK, 14 June 2012 - 09:30 PM.

[Teralitha]

Skulls n Guns, on 14 June 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

No, only the mechs who actually have 360 can use it. This poll is stupid. It makes the mech chassis's may too similar and less special.

Um, the poll was for only the mechs that have 360.. you didnt read ..

[Skulls n Guns]

Teralitha, on 14 June 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Um, the poll was for only the mechs that have 360.. you didnt read ..

Yeah you right, I thought it was another stupid "Lets change something" thread. If the mechs had 360 in the books, they get 360. It's better* to change stats, then the core design of a mech .

Edited by Skulls n Guns, 14 June 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[Codex]

@Teralitha

Please explain how having 360 on a mech adds diversity. As an adamant tabletop player and Mechwarrior series fan, I have to say I am against 360, for the simple fact the idea that a mech can sit there and ping away at me while it is running from me honestly makes no sense. First, the mechs that you claim have 360 (and for the record, no mech in TT had anything beyond 270) are generally fast mechs, meaning that you are attempting to make some mechs into catch-alls for lack of skill. In TT, if you wanted to attack something behind you, you torso twisted, and then you fired one arm in an arc behind you. That was it. The end. No mech was able to turn 360 degrees and bring all it's weapons to bear on a target behind it, because for one thing, it prevents you from being able to hit back armor, for another, with other mechs unable to do the same thing, it has a distinct advantage for one mech over another. One of the advantages of a light mech is being able to flank a slower mech and reach that back armor. A slower mech getting that flank on a faster, lighter mech, and blowing the bejeezus out of it's back armor is one of the most satisfying kills a mechwarrior can have. 360 torso twist defeats this chance.

So why is it some mechs should have this opportunity and others not, especially when it comes down to it, there is very little chance anyone will want to play any other mech because of this advantage, removing your so-called diversity request.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Lancehead, on 13 June 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

Um... you can buy three Commandos for the price of a Raven?

And the Raven would be slower if it weren't using an XL engine. The XL engine dramatically increases the chance of the Raven blowing up if the side torso takes a critical hit. This is much less likely to happen to a Commando.

Since the starting Raven is probably the RVN-1X without the advanced active probe, ecm, XL engine, etc... it will probably not cost as much as 3 commandos. Since any mech can adjust its engine in the mechlab, the Raven can be as fast or faster then the Commando if it wants, and can choose to mount an XL or standard engine. For that matter the Commando can choose to mount an XL if its wants. But the Raven can still spin its top around 360 over the Commando for what, aesthetic reasons?

[Pawn Couch]

Steven McWayne, on 13 June 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Makes no sense for the hardwiring stuff.
You will just cut off the wires to the legs after some 360° turns

I think in 1000 years we would have wireless for multibillon cbill walking tanks

[Codex]

KING PINEAPYULA, on 14 June 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

I think in 1000 years we would have wireless for multibillon cbill walking tanks

This makes no sense whatsoever from a logistical or tactical standpoint. You would want shielded hardwired technology capable of withstanding ECM, otherwise the second a mech equipped with ECM walks by, the signals to the legs stop going through or become garbled, resulting in reduced capability of the mech to turn or speed up/slow down on command. And then you have a runaway multibillion dollar walking tank that just stepped on the mayor's house, cause you wanted to be able to turn backward.

[Teralitha]

Codex, on 14 June 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

@Teralitha

Please explain how having 360 on a mech adds diversity. As an adamant tabletop player and Mechwarrior series fan, I have to say I am against 360, for the simple fact the idea that a mech can sit there and ping away at me while it is running from me honestly makes no sense. First, the mechs that you claim have 360 (and for the record, no mech in TT had anything beyond 270) are generally fast mechs, meaning that you are attempting to make some mechs into catch-alls for lack of skill. In TT, if you wanted to attack something behind you, you torso twisted, and then you fired one arm in an arc behind you. That was it. The end. No mech was able to turn 360 degrees and bring all it's weapons to bear on a target behind it, because for one thing, it prevents you from being able to hit back armor, for another, with other mechs unable to do the same thing, it has a distinct advantage for one mech over another. One of the advantages of a light mech is being able to flank a slower mech and reach that back armor. A slower mech getting that flank on a faster, lighter mech, and blowing the bejeezus out of it's back armor is one of the most satisfying kills a mechwarrior can have. 360 torso twist defeats this chance.

So why is it some mechs should have this opportunity and others not, especially when it comes down to it, there is very little chance anyone will want to play any other mech because of this advantage, removing your so-called diversity request.

I will use my chess game analogy again here for your question.. In chess you have 6 different peices that each have their own movement style. Pawns only go forward, knights jump in L shape, etc etc... Now compare mechs to chess pieces, except the chessboard is now your battlemap. With the chess board's 64X64, and with the 6 ways to move pieces, you have huge number of possible outcomes in any given game. Now suppose you were to create another chess piece, that had yet another unique move. You then increase the number of possibilites and combinations of moves drastically. This will have the same effect on a game of mechwarrior. A mech with its own unique move adding more possibilities and combinations of actions and results. A game with even more variables, becomes a game with a higher learning/skill curve. Which is good, in a game of skill.

Does this make sense to you?


Support 360, Support Diversity.

Edited by Teralitha, 14 June 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[ZeroKel]

If it is technically posible on a few mechs, then it will enhance the game.

Maybe as upgrade? The art make it seem possible.

Rifleman
Warhammer
Archer

Should only be possible while standing, make unstable otherwise... gyro sync issue or something.

Edited by ZeroKel, 14 June 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[Max Liao]

Skulls n Guns, on 14 June 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Yeah you right, I thought it was another stupid "Lets change something" thread. If the mechs had 360 in the books, they get 360. It's better* to change stats, then the core design of a mech .

What 'Mech had 360 in the books?

[Thomas Hogarth]

Teralitha, on 14 June 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

You are either for 360, or you arent.

Either or fallacy. -10 to persuasion.

[Cobra6]

I think that kind 360 torso twist should be reserved for lighter scout mechs, not heavy assault ones.

Cobra 6

Edited by Cobra6, 15 June 2012 - 12:51 AM.