52 replies to this topic

[Taynak]

i do like the idea of a one base idea... thats what assault should be... one team defending a base... and the other team should be assaulting a base...

[Bendak]

Taynak, on 25 August 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

I like the idea of a arena... but that sounds like a one on one situation... on my idea... if the pilot of a light goes and hides and powers down that just shows his cowardice and lameness... me personally, as a light pilot, when im the last man standing i run straight to the enemy team unless its conquest and there is a chance at winning...

Not everyone has honour like you... online gaming. Arena matches in previous mechwarrior games include multiple mechs. Mechwarrior Mercenaries in particular had a string of fantastic Solaris Arena matches involving multiple mechs (up to eight if I remember correctly). Fingers crossed you get what you are asking for as long as the map/arena is small.

Edited by Bendak, 25 August 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[Will9761]

I would love to see something like this in MWO, especially if there was some sort of C-bill betting system to make it more entertaining like Solaris.

[zortesh]

Its easy to solve the no cap problem.

1. use smaller maps
2. once combat is initiated make extra time be brought by damage, so as long people are still fighting time will go up.
3. start with a base time of about 3 minutes, and cap extra time at say upto either say 45 seconds at a time or say a minute and a half. (numbers completely arbitrary here.)

The match will keep on going on as long as people are fighting, but if they run away and hide, or are left ineffective in combat (say lone pure lrm boat vs no weapon ecm spider) the players won't have to wait much more then a minute for it to end.

[CDLord HHGD]

Taynak, on 23 August 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Im sorry... i can't think of a single match where i have seen a mech on both sides left with no weapons... they would have to have shot eachother at the same time and have destroyed eachothers weapons at the same time... this is not impossible but far beyond unlikely...

I HAVE!! Stripped Jenner vs stripped Stalker. Jenner ended up double legging itself with collision damage jumping over the Stalker to try to prevent the cap.

[blinkin]

the only way i can see this reliably working is with duels or MAYBE 2v2. otherwise you end up with some D-bag on one or both teams that just hides in the corner because he wants to troll, is afraid of losing, went AFK for "a moment" and then never came back, is afraid of harming the precious KD ratio, got lost, or some combination of these options.

[kayzie]

I've made many complaints on ninja caps from the past. But it's all good now since cap timer is greatly increased. Slow mechs have more time to return to base.

[Dirus Nigh]

Taynak, on 23 August 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

I know that this is probably already somewhere, or in the works, but could we please speed up the release of a mode that doesn't include any bases??

To many times have I dropped into a match and it be nothing but Cap Warrior Online. It's become ridiculous. I ran a match a little while ago and there was 2 lances of lights on the other side and only 2 lights on my team. The other team waited for us to engage and then ran right for the base and capped us out... completely pointless. Waste of a match.

I don't even understand why people would do this. It makes no sense. Yeah you won the game, but you just got no experience, no money, no glory. What was the point in you showing up?

Can we have a mode that is nothing but just a Deathmatch? Is this a hard thing to do? Is it going to be in a later release of the game? I for one would like to know.

This is what I do not understand.

Why do you not defend your base? By your post you believe that capping is taking away from you shooting robots. Such a large number of your matches end in a cap win, ruining your fun, you must post a poll on the threads for a non capping match. Most commonly called team death match.

If you know the enemy team is going to cap your base, and you want a fight, why are you not going to were you know an enemy mech will be? In other words. Why the fug are you not defending your base, to fight off the mech, you know is going to attack it? because win or lose, you got the fight you wanted.

Now, lets looks at the reverse. What if one or two of your teammates flanked the other side, and won the match by capping their base? I assume that you ran up the middle to go fight. I assume you had plenty of time to engage with the opposing team. Shooting your weapons, doing damage, and maybe getting a kill or two. Seeing as it takes a rather long time to cap in both game modes, I would assume you had plenty of time to do this. Again you got the fight you wanted.

In either case you got your fight. Win or lose. You got the C-Bill rewards and XP for fighting. Why do you give a **** if some other guy helped get the win, and got far less of a rewarded for it, than you did?

Unless you mindlessly ran up the middle alone, get shot by half the opposing team, and did 10 points of damage. But hay, that bits on you.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 27 August 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[TheFallOfTheReaper]

rofl, I love the deathmatch/arena ideas. btw, a 1v1/2v2 arena mode would be epic/doable, and all eventualities do need to be programmed for, but the Shortening of the timer could be done say 12 minutes instead of 15? anyway im not gonna troll to much here it seems yall are close to chewing on each other over it, I just want a DM or TDM mode/Arena, besides can you imagine 24 men/women for themselves?<INSANITY,oh an even scarier thought, Regiment Vs Regiment= 36v36 >_> the ts commlines would 'splode

Edited by ShadowHimself, 27 August 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[Taynak]

Dirus Nigh, on 27 August 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

This is what I do not understand.

Why do you not defend your base? By your post you believe that capping is taking away from you shooting robots. Such a large number of your matches end in a cap win, ruining your fun, you must post a poll on the threads for a non capping match. Most commonly called team death match.

If you know the enemy team is going to cap your base, and you want a fight, why are you not going to were you know an enemy mech will be? In other words. Why the fug are you not defending your base, to fight off the mech, you know is going to attack it? because win or lose, you got the fight you wanted.

Now, lets looks at the reverse. What if one or two of your teammates flanked the other side, and won the match by capping their base? I assume that you ran up the middle to go fight. I assume you had plenty of time to engage with the opposing team. Shooting your weapons, doing damage, and maybe getting a kill or two. Seeing as it takes a rather long time to cap in both game modes, I would assume you had plenty of time to do this. Again you got the fight you wanted.

In either case you got your fight. Win or lose. You got the C-Bill rewards and XP for fighting. Why do you give a **** if some other guy helped get the win, and got far less of a rewarded for it, than you did?

Unless you mindlessly ran up the middle alone, get shot by half the opposing team, and did 10 points of damage. But hay, that bits on you.

Yeah i mindlessly think that running up and setting up in a group to actually have a battle is what the other people are might think would be fun... on a map where the other team just runs right behind you straight for you cap and just parks there... thats what im talking about... maybe you just don't get it because your one of the ones who does it... and my biggest question is WHY WOULD YOU.... your going to have to run 4X the amount of matches than if you just go in and battle... there is no reason why you should run for base at the start of a match....

i was kicking a different idea around with a few of my friends... and we were thinking maybe the idea of waiting until a certain number of mechs are dead before allowing base cap to start would fix the problem... Say your whole team has killed 8 of the 12 and there are only 4 left... then the base will allow you to start capping... this would at least guarantee you a chance to fight... no one... and i mean no one.. is going to thank you for capping out the base at the beginning of the match... not your opponents... not your team... only the people in your lance since your all running together... like a lance of marik dweebs that i ran against tonight... im sure that your 25k c-bills and what 200 XP was just a great boone to you... while i actually engaged and got 45k c-bills and a few hundred XP...

That is the problem... even the poll can show you that a more people than not are tired of CapWarrior Online.. ASSAULT should be ASSAULT... and conquest should be conquest...

Assault is defined as such: A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.

so why would an ASSAULTING force have a base that can be ASSAULTED.... the ASSAULTING force is the one coming in... the defenders are the one with a base... One cap should be all that there is and if the DEFENDING people abandon their base then YES you should be able to cap it.... The current mode of assault is not assault... its CAPTURE THE FLAG....and should be labeled as such... the only difference is that you don't have to run the flag back to your base....

AND ON THAT... i would love to see that... a jenner with a 60ft pole off its back with a flag seems high-larious to me...

but my point still stands... Assault in its current form is broken to TROLLS running to cap the base and ruin the game for the opposing team AND their own team...

[Dirus Nigh]

Taynak, on 27 August 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

That is the problem... even the poll can show you that a more people than not are tired of CapWarrior Online.. ASSAULT should be ASSAULT... and conquest should be conquest...
Ranty stuff

Assault is defined as such: A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.

Because it's about winning. Because it's about playing a more dynamic game. Because I will exploit a teams weakness to get a win. Because that's what you do in a competitive team game. Also because I will play the hell out of the community warfare aspect of the game when it's fully implemented.

The player who wins is the ones who does not do what the opposing team wants them to do.

An attacking force does have some thing to defend. It is called the line of communication. This is the logistical supply line that keeps an army going. It is the avenues of escape, it is how reinforcements get to the attacking units. The attacking units on the assault mode match is starting from a point that leads to their dropships, forward base, or the rest of the brigade, regiment, division, corp, or field army they are apart of. The base cap at their spawn represents this link. Taking that cuts the assaulting mechs off, leaving them isolated, with out resupply, reinforcements, casualty evacuation, and most importantly escape.

I voted no, not because I am opposed to having this type of match. I voted no because it has no context for a game that is being built around community warfare. If it was a stand alone grind drop I don't care. As part of a Solaris IIV expantion it would be perfect. After all that is WWE with mechs. Because team death match is really just arena fighting. Match's fore now should be designed with community warfare objectives in mind.

However that is my opinion on the matter. I honestly think players should learn how to get what they want out of the matches we have now. As well as suggest to the dev's things they would like to see.

Im not saying you are wrong in wanting team death match. Im saying there are ways to get want you want in the assault and conquest modes.

Keep in mind, that the defending forces often run out to the middle of the map. If you stayed at the base the whole team would end up coming to you. Alpine, caustic valley, and river city are maps were this will happen more often.

[Taynak]

Dirus Nigh, on 27 August 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Because it's about winning. Because it's about playing a more dynamic game. Because I will exploit a teams weakness to get a win. Because that's what you do in a competitive team game. Also because I will play the hell out of the community warfare aspect of the game when it's fully implemented.

The player who wins is the ones who does not do what the opposing team wants them to do.

An attacking force does have some thing to defend. It is called the line of communication. This is the logistical supply line that keeps an army going. It is the avenues of escape, it is how reinforcements get to the attacking units. The attacking units on the assault mode match is starting from a point that leads to their dropships, forward base, or the rest of the brigade, regiment, division, corp, or field army they are apart of. The base cap at their spawn represents this link. Taking that cuts the assaulting mechs off, leaving them isolated, with out resupply, reinforcements, casualty evacuation, and most importantly escape.

I voted no, not because I am opposed to having this type of match. I voted no because it has no context for a game that is being built around community warfare. If it was a stand alone grind drop I don't care. As part of a Solaris IIV expantion it would be perfect. After all that is WWE with mechs. Because team death match is really just arena fighting. Match's fore now should be designed with community warfare objectives in mind.

However that is my opinion on the matter. I honestly think players should learn how to get what they want out of the matches we have now. As well as suggest to the dev's things they would like to see.

Im not saying you are wrong in wanting team death match. Im saying there are ways to get what you want in the assault and conquest modes.

Keep in mind, that the defending forces often run out to the middle of the map. If you stayed at the base the whole team would end up coming to you. Alpine, caustic valley, and river city are maps were this will happen more often.

Fist off... i would agree with you if this was community warfare... but its not... if it were... i wouldn't be complaining... this would be a mode of game play that might be legit... and this is another thing we have to worry about because there is nothing on launch... nothing about what community warfare is going to entail...

you do make some sense on the line of communication argument, i will give you that...

perhaps not a base for the Assaulting force but something that is to be destroyed would be better... like say a dropship... and the more you hit it the more its damaged... if you critically damage it then they can't withdraw and don't get some sort of bonus for having it at the end, but you still have to kill all the mechs... because they are still on the field... that being said there is still a timer... and if the timer runs out then however many kills is the determining factor...

however... turning the force back to the base is fine, as long as you all step off the base and engage... this is not what people are doing... they run to the base and cap it out in little time because that was the intention when they dropped into the map. they intended to go straight for the base and cap it out as quick as they could... on some maps i have been on we have actually had enough time to go back and stop the cap... on other maps not made it back in time to fire one shot... other matches have been where we have slaughtered the team and we are far out in the map on say tourmaline and an enemy light with a cap mod has gone to our base after the base has been almost capped to begin with and we thwarted the attempt and the spider is the last guy on his team and he manages the win... THAT is a good match... i don't mind losing that one... that is an acceptable loss... there has been a fight and we didn't have a light to go back and stop him and he's the last guy alive and managed a win... i have done that one myself...

my issue is with the groups that go in intentionally to cap... running min/max builds or alpha builds or whatever you want to call them and just cap... thats it...

I will be interested to see what community warfare brings to the table... when there is a clear understanding of what it will entail...

AND, let me be clear... im not saying to get rid of the mode completely... Im saying make an additional mode that wouldn't involve caps... I personally love the idea of an arena map or mode... this sounds like a novel idea... and be damned the splitting of the queues... who cares if not as many people don't want to play that particular game mode... that just shows you where your customer is going to want to put there time in...

one your 2nd to last point... i appriciate your opinion.. and it does matter to me at least.. if not to PGI... im glad you actually took the time to say why you voted no... and the whole idea of the thread is that... to introduce an idea for another game mode... im sure that its been posted a hundred times already but i have to put my 2 cents in anyway...

on your last point... do you know how hard it is to get the PUG's to do anything??? Running a 12v12 with a group of 12 guys is one thing... but if your a 4 man... getting them to listen is just impossible... they are going to tell you where to shove it... on top of that most pug's are loyal to this faction or that faction and if your in a different one then pi$$ on you and i'll use you as a meat shield... and screw the base im going for glory...

organized 12 mans are better because there are actual tactics... unfortunately with the current state of the game our group is losing too many players to the problems... its hard for us to get a 12 man in our own group going and when we jump on COMSTAR (AT&T with Guns) or NGNG and pick up some people... they don't listen either... so it's just more of the same...

I'm not going to say it is all bad... since i have thrown up this post i have been seeing less and less of the CapWarrior problem... like people actually get it that your not making money....

[DreyfussFrost]

This isn't a deathmatch shooter nor should it be. It's a tactical war game. Use tactics. Conduct war. Stop leaving vital objectives unguarded and valleys unwatched.

[Fabe]

WarThunder has a game mode where the objective is to destroy the enemy teams' ground units while trying to defend your own. Maybe something like that could work here. Each team gets some light vehicles and stationary units like turrets and bunkers and the first team to wipe out all of the other teams stuff wins. A mode like this could also give light something to do other then 'scouting' and capping since some of them were build to hunt light non-mech units.

We would also need the 'dropship' feature to prevent or even less the game being won by wiping out the other team

[Bhael Fire]

Assault mode IS deathmatch.

If they are going to break up the bucket any further, I want to see Objective Based modes that allow players to do thing besides kill/cap — not another deathmatch mode.

[BlacKcuD]

Only if there is respawn and a kill limit or sth like that. Otherwise, there will be a lot of matches where the last remaining Spider is running around until the time is over. This would be no fun at all and drag the game to unnecessary lengths. I don't like the cappable bases in Assault a lot, but they are a necessary evil. The increased cap times really helped with making everything smooth.

[Khobai]

deathmatch is {Scrap}... we can do better.

how bout a game mode where you have to destroy the enemy base. one team is the attacker and one team is the defender.

[Taynak]

Khobai, on 31 August 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

deathmatch is {Scrap}... we can do better.

how bout a game mode where you have to destroy the enemy base. one team is the attacker and one team is the defender.

This is kinda the consensus that most of the people were getting to... i would love this mode... some sort of objective and no more worry about capping...

I literally just got done with a match on alpine... i'll use the conquest points to talk about locations even though it was assault....

one lance of our guys went down toward kappa from our base as did their entire team... they got decimated but it let us flank them from behind and have them bottled up... four of us were just pummeling the living {Scrap} out of these guys... it was great... however i noticed that there were only four and 4 of our guys had run to their base and started capping... they all had cap mods...

so instead of getting a boatload of c-bills for bottling the enemy up and shooting them like fish in a barrel... we got boned with 60k because the four clowns that ran to the base...

Thanks guys that was really great... i got my 2x on that match btw... which was balls because we didn't actually do anything... thanks to you it was another wasted opportunity to make a {Scrap} ton of money..

this is why i would like another mode... i think the base destruction idea is a great idea...

I have added a new question to the poll but you will have to delete your vote and revote if you want to add a vote to the new question...

[Sean von Steinike]

Taynak, on 23 August 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Im sorry... i can't think of a single match where i have seen a mech on both sides left with no weapons... they would have to have shot eachother at the same time and have destroyed eachothers weapons at the same time... this is not impossible but far beyond unlikely...

I have. I had no weapons left, the other person had no ammo left.

[Training Instructor]

In battletech lore, almost every scenario involves one attacking force against a defending force. Now, many of those scenarios involve fighting in the wild, while many others involve fighting in cities, on military bases, in mech factories, etc.

I've read tons of BT novels, and I don't recall any instances where an assaulting force beat down the defending force, only to lose because a couple of guys escaped and stood on a square somewhere.

Assault mode should be one of two things: An attacker/defender scenario with one base or simply one base in the middle of the map that can be capped, aka King of the Hill.

If you wanted to be dynamic and talk further about strategy, typically bases were guarded with dug-in infantry, tanks, srm/lrm carriers, attack helicopters, etc. A couple of light mechs rolling up to that could win, but would at least have a fight on their hands. The whole "defend your base if you hate capping" rhetoric is tired and disingenuous. It's assault mode, we're the assault force.