75 replies to this topic

[Karl Split]

The gauss change I can take or leave tbh.

As I was moving house and going away I ended up taking a near 2 month mwo 'vacation' when I came back every mech is 1 gauss 2ppc's when I pug.

It's just silly, something has to change that. I think the solution is over engineered and complicated but every solution here tends to be. If it fixes the problem tho I'll be happy. The whole ghost heat is like this it reduced the whole 4+ ppc problem but the solution boggles my mind and confuses the hell out of me, and although it fixed the problem it moved the player base into the next best alpha build the gauss + 2 ppc thingy.

I honestly think cone of fire like battfield 3 and reduce the travel speed on ppc's would be a better solution.

Cone of fire would force people to chose moving/jj and being inaccurate or standing still and risking getting return fire.
Slower ppc's would make sniping moving targets harder and would make hitting a moving target with gauss and ppc together very difficult due to noticeable travel time differences. PPC's in closed beta were a lot slower they were only speeded up because of the lag.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Hey how about something even more efficient ?

Honestly, I don't find the PPC/Gauss to be wrong. Powerful yes. Imbalanced yes. But now wrong.
So why not buff other weapons ? Design other weapons to be counters to sniping weapons, rather than just nerfing sniper weapons.

What makes a PvP game fun is the ability to use varied strategies and, crucially, counter-strategies. Making all the weapons equally hard to use, is not going to work.

Let me give an example (not neccessarily a valid idea, just to demonstrate the line of thought):
- imagine AC2s/5s had a lot more ammo with them and made less heat. You could then use them for suppressing fire. Making pop-and-snipe mechs unable to move out of cover without taking damage. Now you can cover your brawlers while they close range. Also, the sniping team has more stragies too. They need to split up, to fire from multiple angles, or use lights that spot and LRMs to indirectly bombard the enemy fire support.
-That's adding counter-strategies.

The alternative is this:
once they nerf all the long range & high damage builds, then the DDC will return in all it's brawling glory, along with many other SRM/AC20 builds. Then what ? Nerf them ? xD
(yes it's not that simple, but the mechanism for balancing is inoptimal i think)

[William Mountbank]

There goes the dual gauss CTX-4X, goodbye sweet prince!

There goes the dual gauss CTX-4X, goodbye sweet prince!

[Zuri Prime]

Paul has stated the the Gauss rifle should have a minimum range (much like the PPC) as well as a charge up. Even though we're seeing the latter, it makes the Gauss a much less desirable weapon. If you want me to use the Gauss as a sniping tool, then give me much increased damage at range and/or increased ammo capacity per ton and/or decreased weapon weight and/or faster reload speeds. A bit too much? That's what I thought. Don't touch the Gauss. It's heavy, fragile, requires ammunition and has a slow projectile speed in comparison to its lore and the PCC.

Now, the (ER)PCC is the problem. By itself it's fine -- but these high alpha builds don't use one, but two, three or even four. This can be problematic when X/12 players on a team use such builds in order to gain a competitive advantage. Lower the damage on these weapons, decrease the convergence or increase the heat when fired in multiples or within a certain time frame (.5 seconds, for example). Hell, give it a charge time if you'd like in lieu of other changes.

That being said, I find it hard to trust balance decisions of a team who decided the UAC5 needed a buff.

[OneEyed Jack]

No weapon should have a charge-up time. The entire idea is moronic. Can you imagine going to the procurement board of any military and pitching a battlefield weapon that when you push the buttons says "hold on, I'll fire in a sec"? Never happen. We're not talking about behind-the-lines artillery or cruise missiles. We're talking about battlefield weapons that, when they need to shoot, need to shoot NOW.

The problem with using them after this garbage goes in, isn't trying to time it with other weapons. Any moron can learn to do that. The problem is being able to shoot when you have a good shot. For a weapon that weighs 15 tons, plus ammo, the hoops that will have to be jumped through to use it at all make it simply non-viable. "But.... but..... Jack, it does 15 pinpoint damage!!!!", you say? Wrong. It does that inside it's optimal range, where you'll seldom want to be, because it'll put you too close to brawlers that will eat you and your 15 ton piece of poo, with it's dumb-arse delays, for breakfast. And god forbid a Light catches sight of you! It'll be kinda like having an LRM 20.... except it weighs a lot more and does less damage.

This kind of thing could only possibly be supported by the same kind of ar-tards that got us the Heat Scale, because they don't care what happens to the game, as long as anything that killed them get's nerfed.

I said when the Heat scale was announced that if it went in, it would be the end of me ever supporting this game with purchases. Not because I was so much affected by it as because of what it signified as the future direction of this game. This. This is what I meant. It's gonna happen, folks. We can argue and point out why it shouldn't until the cows come home, but PGI has proven that they will not listen to reason once they've got a perfectly stupid idea in their collective heads. It's a long and slippery slope they've chosen. Luckily we can ride it out until we get tired of it and jump off, but the game as we've come to know it, the game so many of us supported, is approaching the end. It may or may not actually go the way of the dodo, but if it survives, it won't be the game we've been playing, at all. The recent design decisions and PGI's demonstrated refusal to never, ever reverse anything once it's been implemented will ensure that.

[El Bandito]

OneEyed Jack, on 25 August 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

No weapon should have a charge-up time. The entire idea is moronic. Can you imagine going to the procurement board of any military and pitching a battlefield weapon that when you push the buttons says "hold on, I'll fire in a sec"? Never happen. We're not talking about behind-the-lines artillery or cruise missiles

Gauss is not meant to be used in pitched battles. It is a long range weapon--one of the longest ranged weapon in MWO.

So what if it doesn't deal full damage beyond 660 meters? Free damage is free. If Gauss only dealt damage within 660 (no fallout) then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

Still think PPC/ERPPC should get the charge.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 August 2013 - 02:45 AM.

[OneEyed Jack]

El Bandito, on 25 August 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

So what if it doesn't deal full damage beyond 660 meters? Free damage is free. If Gauss only dealt damage within 660 (no fallout) then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

Comment when you have a clue. It's still a battlefield weapon, and it's not free damage. 15 tons, plus ammo, make it nowhere near free.

Quote

Gauss is not meant to be used in pitched battles

Try explaining that to the guy pounding on you. Ask him if he'd please back up because you spent all your tonnage on a weapon "not meant to be used in pitched battles." Which is stupid because it's a battlefield weapon, not an off-map support weapon, and wrong because it's precisely meant to be used in normal combat. It's just idjits that think a mech game is supposed to have FPS-style snipers suggesting it isn't, and idjits at PGI listening.

[Khobai]

Quote

Gauss is not meant to be used in pitched battles.

Gauss is absolutely meant to be used in pitched battles. Gauss is just not meant to be used in pitchfork battles.

[Mizore]

I think this change will be a heavy drawback for the Gaussrifle.

It's allready much more difficult to hit a fast moving mech at long range with Gauss than it is with PPC because of the low velocity of the Gauss.

When they bring in this delay it will become even more difficult to hit something with Gauss and so the PPC will surely become the no.1 sniper weapon.
There's no doubt about this!

I also think the only weapon that could need this delay is the PPC, not the Gauss!

[Lightfoot]

The nerf reminds me of how Bombast Lasers worked in MechWarrior Vengeance, they were removed from MechWarrior Mercenaries because no one ever used them.

In MechWarrior 3 no one used the Gauss Rifle just because it was a bit under-powered.

So although you see players using a Gauss Rifle now, they don't have too and this nerf will kill Gauss Rifle. I am sure they will do the charge-up nerf anyway, but when everyone stops using the Gauss Rifle what will the fix for the nerf be?

If you have MechWarrior Vengeance go try to hit something with Bombast Lasers. Then ask yourself, why should I bother using such a complex weapon when no other weapon has a charge-up phase?

[GrandLocomon]

Alistair Winter, on 24 August 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

As others have said, it's a good solution for the wrong weapon. Gauss rifles aren't the problem right now. PPCs and ER PPCs are much worse. They should use the 'charge' mechanic for those weapons instead. The Gauss rifles is already limited by its ammunition and the fact that explodes when it's damaged.

Exactly this.

[Modo44]

Lord Perversor, on 25 August 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

As it seems all this fixes are part of a larger picture

You are correct: Anything to not implement a convergence mechanic.

[Appogee]

Charging should apply to PPCs, not to Gauss.

[Jolly Llama]

Khobai, on 25 August 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Gauss is absolutely meant to be used in pitched battles. Gauss is just not meant to be used in pitchfork battles.

I would be completely ok with this change if they would just put a damn bayonet lug on the gauss cannon. If I can't shoot it, at least let me go hand to hand with it.

Seriously, let them make the change. The next generation of high alpha builds are already being field tested by the smarter players. Staying a step ahead of damage whiners is half the fun of this game.

[Lightfoot]

Oh well. I don't think there is any point in offering this insight, but no one uses charge-up weapons in MechWarrior for no reason. With so many similar weapons available they have no reason too. They just won't use the Gauss Rifle. The only way you could lure some players into using a charge-up weapon would be that it did up to 25% more damage when fully charged. Even so I don't think anyone would bother with it. The MWO Gauss Rifle will just be the new extinct Bombast Laser from MW4 Vengeance.

[Khobai]

Quote

As others have said, it's a good solution for the wrong weapon

Its a bad solution for the wrong weapon. Charge-up is a horrible mechanic in any game.

[BeezleBug]

i play with so many other players and nobody, i mean nobody has a problem with the Gaus ! But sure Paul´s "idea" with the MG´s and the higher critt chance was such a good idea^^
Nobody ask for it, but hey lets do it anyway.

[Duncan Longwood]

OneEyed Jack, on 25 August 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

No weapon should have a charge-up time. The entire idea is moronic. Can you imagine going to the procurement board of any military and pitching a battlefield weapon that when you push the buttons says "hold on, I'll fire in a sec"? Never happen. We're not talking about behind-the-lines artillery or cruise missiles. We're talking about battlefield weapons that, when they need to shoot, need to shoot NOW.

Excerpt from http://tracking-point.com/



To operate the PrecisionGuidedFirearm, the shooter...

• Paints the target with the tag to lock on
  
• Watches as the tag persists, regardless of relative movement
  
• Aligns the reticle with the tag to produce the firing solution
  
• Squeezes and holds the trigger to arm the system

When the reticle and tag are optimally aligned, the Networked Tracking Scope releases the guided trigger. As long as you can tag it, you can hit it.


>> Learn More about the Tag Track Xact Shot Process

Edited by Duncan Longwood, 25 August 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[infinite xaer0]

as much as ppl around here don't like ghost heat, using that system to handle PPC+Gauss combinations would solve the problem without adding fire delay to either weapon, or other extra mechanics in general.

[KAT Ayanami]

Ring Ring, Ring Ring.....

Hi! Microsoft?
Hi. Could you please buy the rights for MW again? No? Oh well..... thanks anyways....

Lets play MWLL instead then.... oh wait! They were kicked out too!!


This is annoying now. I supported PGI for trying to build such a good MW game. Graphics and other areas of the game are very polished. But GOD they are making this thing CRAZY complicated!!!

Aside from the point that this is a MechvsMech only game with only 2 freaking options to play..... the weapon system is getting weirder and weirder....

I do not get it. They have players that spend 28 hours a DAY playing this game and that are very good at it (understanding the in-and-out of the game). Why not sit with them and overhaul the entire weapon system????

Hard Point Restrictions (like MW4), damage, range, load, etc........ I am sure there are PLENTY of people that would love to help in other ways other than PAYING FOR FOUNDER'S PACKAGES.....

Nah. I will stop there, Im just ranting because this is going down the drain.... please proceed.

We all know that hardpoint restrictions like MW4 would be better than what we have.