75 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

KAT Ayanami, on 25 August 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Ring Ring, Ring Ring.....

Hi! Microsoft?
Hi. Could you please buy the rights for MW again? No? Oh well..... thanks anyways....

Lets play MWLL instead then.... oh wait! They were kicked out too!!


This is annoying now. I supported PGI for trying to build such a good MW game. Graphics and other areas of the game are very polished. But GOD they are making this thing CRAZY complicated!!!

Aside from the point that this is a MechvsMech only game with only 2 freaking options to play..... the weapon system is getting weirder and weirder....

I do not get it. They have players that spend 28 hours a DAY playing this game and that are very good at it (understanding the in-and-out of the game). Why not sit with them and overhaul the entire weapon system????

Hard Point Restrictions (like MW4), damage, range, load, etc........ I am sure there are PLENTY of people that would love to help in other ways other than PAYING FOR FOUNDER'S PACKAGES.....

Nah. I will stop there, Im just ranting because this is going down the drain.... please proceed.

We all know that hardpoint restrictions like MW4 would be better than what we have.

[Nightfangs]

The next idea they could follow would be to let all 2PPC+Gauss mechs start with only one leg.
Seriously, I can't imagine how anyone would get the idea that this gauss charge-up change would be a good idea. ^^

[WM Jeri]

Slumu, on 24 August 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Maybe I'm getting something wrong or not at all, but how is a charging time for Gauss rifles solving anything. As far as I understand, you have to charge up the gauss, then you can keep it charged for a few seconds and then you either have to fire or the charge disolves. That correct so far?

If it is, it only means I have to fire my PPCs 0.75s later to get the same Alpha output I had before. How is that helping with anything really? And please correct me if I'm wrong.

Exactly our folks have already been discussing a macro to handle this to time weapons bound to a key to deal with the delay. Same alpha effect the only difference is the tactical ability to immediatly snapshot.

[Talrich]

Nerfing player control is not a good way to balance a game. I'm baffled by the number of people white knighting this. There's no BT precedent for this approach to the gauss, and gauss is already the heaviest weapon.

The dual gauss Jager, Ilya, and Cataphract 4X were good mechs without being out of line, but I think this will just make them un-fun.

Yes, a comprehensive solution to pinpoint alphas needed to address the gauss, but this isn't comprehensive. It's just another random band-aid patch to go with ghost heat.

[Lord Perversor]

WM Jeri, on 25 August 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Exactly our folks have already been discussing a macro to handle this to time weapons bound to a key to deal with the delay. Same alpha effect the only difference is the tactical ability to immediatly snapshot.

So that means your folks, have troubles handling more than a single firing group???

Sorry i just find hilarious the excuses ppl look to being able to push a single button and be *efficient* because ya know push 2 buttons it's soo big strain in the human brain accostumed to search and advantage in any splitsecond.

[East Indy]

Lightfoot, on 25 August 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

The MWO Gauss Rifle will just be the new extinct Bombast Laser from MW4 Vengeance.

Well, yes, it might be abandoned by the bandwagon using it as a mere tack-on for 35-pointers or as a substitute high for dual-AC/20 Jagermechs.

But that's arguably the point, and a sensible one if so.

[Asmosis]

charge-up should be a non-issue, for a lot of people it takes that amount of time to line up a shot anyway.

or would people be more happy with a 120m minimum range?

Still, a better solution would have been changing its velocity, as mentioned people are just going to macro in order to save their pin-point alpha builds much like the initial UAC jamming mechanism. PPC's already have heavy penalties attached to them, no need to nerf them further.

Edited by Asmosis, 25 August 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Talrich, on 25 August 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Nerfing player control is not a good way to balance a game. I'm baffled by the number of people white knighting this. There's no BT precedent for this approach to the gauss, and gauss is already the heaviest weapon.

The dual gauss Jager, Ilya, and Cataphract 4X were good mechs without being out of line, but I think this will just make them un-fun.

Yes, a comprehensive solution to pinpoint alphas needed to address the gauss, but this isn't comprehensive. It's just another random band-aid patch to go with ghost heat.

"The capacitors that power the electromagnet"

Define Capacitor - "A capacitor (originally known as a condenser) is a passive two-terminal electrical component used to store energy electrostatically in an electric field."

"The larger the capacitor, the more voltage it can store"

There seems to be a trend going on there. A charge is stored and a charge has to be accumulated before being discharged. The Gauss stores energy "electrostatically" in Capacitors and discharges it to propel its slugs. So yes, in fact there is lots of precedence. Simply ignoring the facts does not make them untrue.

Edited by Almond Brown, 25 August 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Spheroid]

^ There should never been any time needed to charge the capacitors of a gauss rifle. The weapon is always in an energized state hence why is liable to explode for full damage at all times even after ammo depletion. Even if the gauss rifle did have a capacitor charge time, surely employing two or more banks of capacitors would eliminate such delays in actual use.

Edited by Spheroid, 25 August 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Duncan Longwood]

I have to agree with the notion of putting the charge-up on the PPC's. I think that puts the drawback more in line with their nearest energy weapon competitor the Large Pulse Laser. (I know they are tuning it so my numbers may be off)

Both weigh 7tons
both do @10 damage
LPL, you click the button and have to scan on target for .75 secs as the laser discharges.
PPC, you click the button and have to scan on target for .75 secs as the laser charges.

This change would bring the PPC more in line with the existing disadvantages of Lasers and Pulse Lasers: the necessity to scan the target. Making it universal that all energy weapons have some "scan" element and all ballistics remain instant fire is more balanced in dealing with the problems in the current meta-game and more intuitive for new players than changing up the operation of the Gauss.

Edited by Duncan Longwood, 25 August 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[moneyBURNER]

xenoglyph, on 25 August 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

If you don't have the coordination to still fire them both at the same time, here's a macro for you:

Left mouse button down = fire group 1 (Gauss)
Left mouse button up = fire group 2 (PPCs)

With this workaround, not only will the desyncing mechanic have completely failed to achieve the desired effect, but it will actually benefit advanced players and punish casual players, while making the game more baffingly convoluted.

It's reminscent of armlock, which, instead of just being a crutch for newer players, became an advanced function to instantly converge all weapons.

IMO, the best way to balance Gauss as a long range weapon, if needed, is to increase its cooldown, so that it remains a devastating burst-damage weapon, but suffers DPS-wise at brawling range.

[Pht]

I'm beginning to pine for the relative sanity exhibited at the mad-hatters tea-party as we passed his table, while chasing this "tweak the unintended results to fix them" rabbit down the "patch patch" hole.

This will only get worse if they continue this "fix the fixes" thing.

I have this sneaking suspicion that this desynch fix is for a problem that has not cropped up that they think will crop up, once the ERPPC/PPC thing is fixed.

If the ERPPC/PPC "mole" build is succesfully "whacked" by a patch, the gauss will be the next "mole" that pops up. It's sort of like holding the hammer over the mole you think is going to pop up next.

Edited by Pht, 25 August 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Actually it's to fix a problem that they think will crop up when they get to the Jihad.

[Pht]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 25 August 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Actually it's to fix a problem that they think will crop up when they get to the Jihad.

Hmm.

Nothing coming to mind.

Which problem are you thinking of?

I was thinking it'd fix the upcoming gauss problem, because the ppc class weapons are probably going to get a giant-heat nerf of some sort.

[Bront]

Ugh, charge up time on the Gauss? No thanks. Gauss is just fine. It's heavy as hell, takes up a lot of space, goes all 'splody when you hit it (rather than the ammo). No, Gauss is fine, you make sacrifices to mount it, which is all you need.

Monky, on 25 August 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

I think a charge up on both is in order honestly.

Gauss rifles; 15 tons, 3 tons of ammo for a 12 v 12 - no heat, 15 points of damage at long range.

PPCs; 7 tons + heatsinks, no ammo, 10 points of damage at long range.

Both of these weapons outperform AC10's and AC5/UAC5, and AC2. They need to be made harder to use and there's only so much tweaking you can get away with in terms of projectile speed/heat/ammo per ton/etc. Charge up time fits the bill for both of them so they stay functional as sniping weapons and reduce effectiveness in a brawl - giving the other weapons a clear area where they are actually superior.

AC10 feels like it could use a little love, but the AC5/UAC5s are fine, as the AC5 has decent range, a better rate of fire, more ammo per ton, and weighs a lot let (The UAC5 more so in all but weight), and the AC2's rate of fire, range, and size makes it suitable to mount several and harass from long range.

PPC issue is projectile speed as much as anything. Drop that a bit or make it a short duration projectile beam (Same projectile speed, but is instead a beam that last for like .3 seconds), and you'd be fine.

[Latorque]

The gauss doesn't need fixing; but in anticipation that PGI will just go ahead and do it anyway i already switched to a LB 10-X AC. Seems to work so far; but i never really played my Flame as a sniper anyway.

The thing that worries me most is not the pretty obvious loss of the gauss as a valid weapon (charge time and possibly minimum range? Of course i'll use that overly complicated and monstrously heavy piece of junk), but the prospect of leaving ONE effective long range weapon. Here's a tip; it doesn't force you to show yourself at all, dominates at 180 to about 1000 meters, reloads tremendously fast and has a very nice ammo load compared to the gauss. Sprinkles on top, it ignores most kinds of cover.

I very much hope i have some good PPC snipers on my team in the future; because this is gonna be LRM heaven in all likelihood.

[WM Jeri]

Lord Perversor, on 25 August 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

So that means your folks, have troubles handling more than a single firing group???

Sorry i just find hilarious the excuses ppl look to being able to push a single button and be *efficient* because ya know push 2 buttons it's soo big strain in the human brain accostumed to search and advantage in any splitsecond.

Its not the inability to push multiple buttons my friend its to show the fix does not accompolish the intended result of removing an alpha. So you just bind a 3rd or 4th key to the macro and if the situation allows to take advantage of the alpha shot you do it. So if the fix does not prevent it the question we are posing with the Macro for PGI is this, is the juice worth the squeeze?

[Lord Perversor]

WM Jeri, on 25 August 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Its not the inability to push multiple buttons my friend its to show the fix does not accompolish the intended result of removing an alpha. So you just bind a 3rd or 4th key to the macro and if the situation allows to take advantage of the alpha shot you do it. So if the fix does not prevent it the question we are posing with the Macro for PGI is this, is the juice worth the squeeze?

Neither the JJ shake removed the Poptarting, still lots of player wasn't able to keep up the changes and thus the poptarting was visible reduced..

In fact this can be more of an extra side solution to Poptarts ( even less time to aim and fire if you lack skill)

Anyway the simple fact that you comrades are thinking a way to bypass it means that it's doing more than anything.

Imho the Gauss tweak it's more of an upcoming release of dual gauss assault chassis than for the current PPC+Gauss meta

[OneEyed Jack]

Almond Brown, on 25 August 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

"The capacitors that power the electromagnet"

Define Capacitor - "A capacitor (originally known as a condenser) is a passive two-terminal electrical component used to store energy electrostatically in an electric field."

"The larger the capacitor, the more voltage it can store"

There seems to be a trend going on there. A charge is stored and a charge has to be accumulated before being discharged. The Gauss stores energy "electrostatically" in Capacitors and discharges it to propel its slugs. So yes, in fact there is lots of precedence. Simply ignoring the facts does not make them untrue.

Um... 4 second cycle rate.....

What exactly did you think that was for?

Lord Perversor, on 25 August 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Neither the JJ shake removed the Poptarting, still lots of player wasn't able to keep up the changes and thus the poptarting was visible reduced..

In fact this can be more of an extra side solution to Poptarts ( even less time to aim and fire if you lack skill)

Remove poptarting? No. Was it ever announced to be intended to completely remove any possibility of firing while airborne? No. It simply reduced the effectiveness and reliability by reducing the window of opportunity. As for this being an "extra solution," it actually makes poptarting the most likely time to use a Gauss, since you can charge it in cover or on the way up, then release to fire. If you don't get a good shot, you're back in cover to reset.

[Ripper X]

This mechanic will not be new player friendly.
Those that have gaming mice will still be able to alpha PPCs and Gauss and will give them a pretty strong advantage. Sure it will take some skill but the better players, those that have gaming mice or simple mouse configs, this will not effect them much.

Edited by Ripper X, 25 August 2013 - 02:07 PM.