19 replies to this topic

[warner2]

For new players especially, but generally as good UI design, the HUD should be displaying the amount of heat that is getting generated due to heat scale penalty. If I fire 3PPC the HUD should be telling me how much of the generated heat is due to the base 3PPC heat and how much extra I'm being penalised with.

Right now you actually need a calculator or some out of game chart (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale) to figure it out.

Fear my MS Paint skills. My suggestion is that as you fire your weapons, and as the heat bar fills up, the portion of it that is ghost heat is painted in a different colour. The darker red here shows that 3PPC/GR alpha on this Highlander gives you a chunk of heat, ghost heat, that is identifiable due to being dark red.

Edited by warner2, 25 August 2013 - 05:54 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

I'd also like a second heat scale that picks up where the other one left off. Or a percentage reading on the first that displays actual percentage (110% for example) even though the visual scale ends at 100%.

[Johnny Z]

I am confused, can the ghost heat bar hover above my mech beside the floaty drone.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 August 2013 - 06:12 AM.

[warner2]

Johnny Z, on 25 August 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

I am confused, can the ghost heat bar hover above my mech beside the floaty drone.

Only if it can be shot down.

[Mazgazine1]

There needs to be a more public explanation and in game alert to ghost heat!

Since there isn't one, IT SHOULD NOT BE IN THE GAME.

Can you imagine if one of the trial mechs is an awesome with 3 ppcs? They're screwed.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

We need more than that, but I do like the idea of more effects too.

I think we should just show a "+10" in red, next to the weapon selectors, right after the weapons fire (10 of course being the extra heat generated). That should show people when and how much 'ghost heat' has been applied.


I'll talk to design cuz I want it in too but all HUD/UI guys are stuck in UI 2.0 right now. So your suggestion I could do myself with minimal assistance from art or the UI team.


ADDITIONAL: I've talked to art and we can't think of an effect that would work and not make the player think this weapon is doing more damage. We'll peg away at it see if we can come up with something. But the HUD indication and probably Front-End info is already in the works/designed.

[Syllogy]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 September 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

We need more than that, but I do like the idea of more effects too.

I think we should just show a "+10" in red, next to the weapon selectors, right after the weapons fire (10 of course being the extra heat generated). That should show people when and how much 'ghost heat' has been applied.


I'll talk to design cuz I want it in too but all HUD/UI guys are stuck in UI 2.0 right now. So your suggestion I could do myself with minimal assistance from art or the UI team.


ADDITIONAL: I've talked to art and we can't think of an effect that would work and not make the player think this weapon is doing more damage. We'll peg away at it see if we can come up with something. But the HUD indication and probably Front-End info is already in the works/designed.

Instead of indicating how much extra heat would be generated, what about a Fade-in/Fade-out warning on the weapon selector over the name of the weapon saying "HEAT WARNING!" or something generic like that?

Knowing how much ghost heat is applied is fine and all, but in my opinion, knowing if it will be applied is a much more useful tool.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Maybe on weapon groups that have more than the max number allowed alpha you change the numbers to red to indicate that there will be additional heat for firing that group. Or like a little orange flame picture around each number.

[DocBach]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 25 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Maybe on weapon groups that have more than the max number allowed alpha you change the numbers to red to indicate that there will be additional heat for firing that group. Or like a little orange flame picture around each number.

This would be good - group up three PPC's and have it set for group fire changes that weapon groups numbers to red to let you know you've got a ghost heat penalty.

THOMAS! Get er done!

Something like this:

Edited by DocBach, 25 September 2013 - 10:36 AM.

[Jaynestown]

Brilliant idea, Warner. I had a similar thought and I should have posted it, but I was thinking something like two bars side by side. This idea is much better.

[wickwire]

DocBach, on 25 September 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

This would be good - group up three PPC's and have it set for group fire changes that weapon groups numbers to red to let you know you've got a ghost heat penalty.

THOMAS! Get er done!

Something like this:

wouldnt red mean "doesnt work" to new players?

[Donnie Silveray]

A nice idea, however it would be equally vital for such information to be revealed in the mechbay. This is currently the biggest major hiccup in MWO, the game being saddled with a dated UI. Once the new UI is released, it should be able to relate this info to us. Preferably in an informative manner.

[DocBach]

wickwire, on 25 September 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

wouldnt red mean "doesnt work" to new players?

I think like Donnie said, would have to be explained in the new UI or even in the launch flash screens that "Grouped weapons appearing red on the HUD are affected by greater heat when fired as a group."

[Stardancer01]

How about 3 bars as well as and placed beside the heat bar on the HUD.

1 for Recoil
1 for EMP
1 for Guidance & targeting

If you fire a Ballistic weapon you get its normal heat + the heat already on the recoil bar and adds more stress to the bar.

Weapons gain a lightning bolt, blast or missile symbol dependent on which category they belong to.

[aniviron]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 September 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

We need more than that, but I do like the idea of more effects too.

I think we should just show a "+10" in red, next to the weapon selectors, right after the weapons fire (10 of course being the extra heat generated). That should show people when and how much 'ghost heat' has been applied.


I'll talk to design cuz I want it in too but all HUD/UI guys are stuck in UI 2.0 right now. So your suggestion I could do myself with minimal assistance from art or the UI team.


ADDITIONAL: I've talked to art and we can't think of an effect that would work and not make the player think this weapon is doing more damage. We'll peg away at it see if we can come up with something. But the HUD indication and probably Front-End info is already in the works/designed.

Seems like it'd be more useful to display a percentage than a hard number, since the numbers are hidden from the player anyway unless they do their homework on weapon stats. Ask a new player how much extra heat 'ten' is, and I doubt they will tell you it's once PPC's worth, or a third of the heat cap without extra heatsinks.

(I'd still argue that at this point everything is fairly well balanced without ghost heat, making it a redundant system that only adds needless complexity; but I know that's Paul's area. Still, the fact that the concept is this hard to explain should be indicative of part of why it's a bad system- because the consequences of firing too many weapons at once require algebra to figure out, it might as well just be a hard cap for weapon numbers.)

[GrimLeo]

The simplest solution is a "Warning: Power Overload" Bitching Betty call with big "Power Overload" sign across the HUD whenever the 'Ghost Heat' state is triggered.

[CDLord HHGD]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 September 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

We need more than that, but I do like the idea of more effects too.

I think we should just show a "+10" in red, next to the weapon selectors, right after the weapons fire (10 of course being the extra heat generated). That should show people when and how much 'ghost heat' has been applied.


I'll talk to design cuz I want it in too but all HUD/UI guys are stuck in UI 2.0 right now. So your suggestion I could do myself with minimal assistance from art or the UI team.


ADDITIONAL: I've talked to art and we can't think of an effect that would work and not make the player think this weapon is doing more damage. We'll peg away at it see if we can come up with something. But the HUD indication and probably Front-End info is already in the works/designed.

Information is ammunition.... If adding the ghost heat makes people think that it's the damage, then add the damage too..... List the equipped weapons damage potential along with the heat generated, two columns instead of one partially filled column.....

[Mechteric]

Sorry but I don't think there's any good way to provide feedback of the ghost heat, merely because it no longer makes sense. Now that PPCs are back to generating the appropriate heat I have doubts ghost heat accomplishes what it once set out to do.

[Sandpit]

I think all of the mechanics just need a much better description in the game itself. Right now a new player really has to work to figure out what certain things do and how they work in game. It just adds to the already steep learning curve. A lot of this could be solved in the mech lab.

Hovering over or clicking on any item should give a very detailed description of exactly how it works and what it does.

In the case of ghost heat, when a player drops in the weapon limit that would trigger ghost heat, there should be an advising message that pops up explaining they have hit the ghost heat threshhold and a detailed explanation of how it works and affects heat production.

This is one area that the game has failed to perform. A player should never have to dig through forums, 3rd party tools, or outside of the game to find important, pertinent, and useful information regarding weapons, mechs, modules, etc.

[GrimLeo]

You raise good points Sandpit, but I am willing to wait for UI 2.0 to get the mechlab support you outlined. I do think my Bitching Betty solution ("Warning Power Overload") could be implemented now without any dependency to UI 2.0.