16 replies to this topic

[Lorelei43]

I noticed something strange, but perhaps this is working as designed.

If you equip a mech with 2 AC2 on each arm, and then group then, 2 per group. If you fire simultaneously, heat rises as expected.

If you fire alternatively, but in a rapid fashion, then starting with 70% heat, it goes suddenly in an instant to 90% then shut down?

So is it a feature? Firing alternatively weapons cost more heat than fire in one large volley?

[Shadey99]

I wrote up a whole post, but then tossed it... Basically... It's boating penalty ghost heat even though they have never said the weapons have one. Chain fired they can fire fast enough to count as boating, so it's always better to group fire them instead. (Even though the said the cooldown change would fix this).

[xenoglyph]

Lorelei43, on 25 August 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

So is it a feature? Firing alternatively weapons cost more heat than fire in one large volley?

Yes. Because Paul. Grab your pitchfork.

[Lorelei43]

boating?

Paul?

What's the matter, I understand nothing. Is it related with the strange black socks affair?

[Shadey99]

It has to do with the heat penalties mentioned here: http://mwomercs.com/...23-16-jul-2013/ under 'Heat Scale Additions'. The AC2 is not on that, but none the less it gets affected by it as well.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

The AC2 is a little weird with the heat penalty system due to its high rate of fire which falls right below the heat penalty time threshold. With client-server magic it can be fickle.

I'm hoping that if there was something wrong, our testers would have picked up on it and i would have the bug report to work on.

I'll try it out on live see if i notice strangeness right now.




Here is what I think is happening.

Because we are confirming everything with the server the timing isn't always perfect.

Rapid firing an AC2 can make every shot gain in heat penalty without letting the heat penalty reset after 0.5s.
While if you fire them all off at once sometimes it will reset.

[SmurfOff]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 August 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

The AC2 is a little weird with the heat penalty system due to its high rate of fire which falls right below the heat penalty time threshold. With client-server magic it can be fickle.

I'm hoping that if there was something wrong, our testers would have picked up on it and i would have the bug report to work on.

I'll try it out on live see if i notice strangeness right now.

Your testers???? You have thousands of them, some of them even paid for "legendary" founder status. And we have been screaming at you about phantom heat since you mentioned it. And then you implemented, and we screamed that it is not working.

But nice way to deflect, and claim you are unaware of the issue. That you purposefully caused.

[Deathlike]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 August 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

The AC2 is a little weird with the heat penalty system due to its high rate of fire which falls right below the heat penalty time threshold. With client-server magic it can be fickle.

I'm hoping that if there was something wrong, our testers would have picked up on it and i would have the bug report to work on.

I'll try it out on live see if i notice strangeness right now.




Here is what I think is happening.

Because we are confirming everything with the server the timing isn't always perfect.

Rapid firing an AC2 can make every shot gain in heat penalty without letting the heat penalty reset after 0.5s.
While if you fire them all off at once sometimes it will reset.

You've confirmed what I thought was happening weeks ago when the "heat penalty" was applied.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 August 2013 - 02:04 PM.

[Shadey99]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 August 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Rapid firing an AC2 can make every shot gain in heat penalty without letting the heat penalty reset after 0.5s.
While if you fire them all off at once sometimes it will reset.

I was sure "- AC2 cooldown was increased to 0.52s (up from 0.50) to fix a timing issue." from the latest patch notes was because of this very issue...

Edited by Shadey99, 25 August 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Lorelei43]

So bottom line, and whatever the technical reasons, it means that firing alternatively AC2s located on each arm of a mech is bugged, that's my conclusion. I wanted to group the AC, one group per arm, for heat management and improvements in targeting, but I can't do that.

[Sharp Spikes]

Oh, thank you for the explanation, Thomas. But what about this?

Reppu said:

This is in fact working as intended. The reason heat is climbing so fast with how you're pressing those keys is that you're firing a LOT of shots in a very short period of time.
Using the method you described on a Jagermech with 4x AC/2s: One can fire roughly 17 shots within 2 seconds - this got me from 10% base heat on Tourmaline to 100% as well. I think it's warranted because you're firing considerably faster than the built-in recycle rate on those weapons. After one or two cycles, you've got your main trigger constantly firing, while your rotation is adding extra shots between the trigger shots. Powerful? Oh yes, very. Hence the heat results.

[DragonsFire]

SmurfOff, on 25 August 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Your testers???? You have thousands of them, some of them even paid for "legendary" founder status. And we have been screaming at you about phantom heat since you mentioned it. And then you implemented, and we screamed that it is not working.

But nice way to deflect, and claim you are unaware of the issue. That you purposefully caused.

Gee, I wonder why the Devs are so reluctant to ever post on the forums when this is the reception they receive. /sarcasm

As a developer, so very much of your time is invested into writing, compiling, testing, fixing and recompiling your projects. You have very little time to get out and interact with your intended audience, and that's why I am always appreciative to hear a response such as the one that Thomas gave.

Seriously, instead of jumping on his back how about give some further actual feedback to help further identify test cases that they can use to root out any issue. This happens SO very often in these forums where folks just say "I have problem X, fix it" but give nothing of their conditions, sometimes not even system specs and the like. Troubleshooting can not happen in a vacuum and the more information you can give the better armed they are to deal with a potential issue.

[SmurfOff]

While I agree that the current state of affairs is not working, we were never given a clear method of reporting defects. No bugzilla, ticket tracker, etc...

So how can I report something into a non-existant system? Forums do not do the trick, and become a cesspool of non-useful data that would be impossible to triage.

And I think this was PGI's largest "failure" in the founders program. They could have leveraged thier paying testers to root out many of the issues that have plagued the game since inception. Given us "missions" - like throw as many PPC's on a stalker and see what it does..

[Deathlike]

The math is still wrong. "Nerfing" the cooldown to .52 does not solve it.

.52 (current AC2 cooldown) * .95 (fast fire time reduction) = .494

That means, the bug will still trigger. Increasing the cooldown to .53 will "apply a proper workaround" to the issue.

[scJazz]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 August 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

The AC2 is a little weird with the heat penalty system due to its high rate of fire which falls right below the heat penalty time threshold. With client-server magic it can be fickle.

I'm hoping that if there was something wrong, our testers would have picked up on it and i would have the bug report to work on.

I'll try it out on live see if i notice strangeness right now.




Here is what I think is happening.

Because we are confirming everything with the server the timing isn't always perfect.

Rapid firing an AC2 can make every shot gain in heat penalty without letting the heat penalty reset after 0.5s.
While if you fire them all off at once sometimes it will reset.

Look Thomas... I like you. Really. But.

We have been saying that AC2s have been broken since July 16th when it comes to the Heat Scale. Multiple threads, posts, videos, etc. have been made detailing exactly how they are broke. Better still they weren't even listed as being effected initially. As Deathlike has pointed out the recent Tweak doesn't even work because someone forgot about the Fast Fire skill (obviously). Almost as if someone tested the new tweak using Testing Grounds *FACEPALM*

We have been told they are working as intended.

Nope sorry it is a bug.

Working as intended again.

Whups back to bug.

OK so can you just remove them from the Heat Scaling nonsense so that I can once again put them on a Mech like a Jager and be able to fire... Right Arm from partial cover using M1 and Left arm from partial cover using M2 and both M1 and M2 together when I'm not behind partial cover so that I don't waste ammo firing into a bloody rock?

[Kmieciu]

Paul decided that you all should be penalized for firing more than 3 shots of AC2 during a 0.5 time period, and that's final! Imagine: 6 points of damage spread around the target! That's simply too much!

"Powerful? Oh yes, very. Hence the heat results." - said Reppu

That's why I'll stick to my humble 2xERPPC+AC20. It's so weak that it does not need any penalty :-)

Edited by Kmieciu, 02 September 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 August 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

The AC2 is a little weird with the heat penalty system due to its high rate of fire which falls right below the heat penalty time threshold. With client-server magic it can be fickle.

I'm hoping that if there was something wrong, our testers would have picked up on it and i would have the bug report to work on.

I'll try it out on live see if i notice strangeness right now.




Here is what I think is happening.

Because we are confirming everything with the server the timing isn't always perfect.

Rapid firing an AC2 can make every shot gain in heat penalty without letting the heat penalty reset after 0.5s.
While if you fire them all off at once sometimes it will reset.

I have an easy, crowd pleasing fix for you: Bury Ghost Heat and pretend it never existed.

Literally everyone wins. Everyone.*

* Up PPC recycles. Done.