27 replies to this topic

[xenoglyph]

I have a D-DC build that I screw around with sometimes; the 'super shotgun': dual LBX-10 + triple SRM-6 + dual MLAS. It's pretty horrible, but fun to play sometimes if you're a fan of ammo explosions.

It's slightly less horrible now, thanks PGI.

Reduce the spread a bit more and I think the LBX-10 will actually be in a good place.

[Corvus Antaka]

ac/10 isnt that great either, and the lbx10 is it's counterpart.

we need the LBX20 and gauge that vs ac/20 and then revisit these guns to see how they pair/matchup.

[Kmieciu]

LBX may still be underpowered but at least they are usable now. I went 1 on 1 in a LBX Jagger against a Gauss Jagger and won. Close range of course.

[Khobai]

The more they tighten the spread on the LB10X, the more it defeats the purpose of the weapon. They are CLUSTER rounds. They are supposed to hit nearly every location on a mech, find holes in the armor, and crit components. The AC/10 and LB10X should be fundamentally different weapons and tightening the spread on the LB10X just makes it more like the AC/10. Once again PGI is going the wrong direction in balancing weapons.

1) LB10X should have a fairly wide spread so it hits almost every location on a mech

2) LB10X should fire in a cylinder pattern rather than a cone pattern so its accuracy doesnt degrade at range

3) LB10X should do more damage per pellet and pellets should have a higher critical damage multiplier

4) LB10X should be able to switch between cluster and slug rounds but should fire slug rounds slower
than the AC/10 so the AC/10 remains viable (the AC/10 should also be able to use ammo types the LB10X cant)

And thats how you fix the LB10X... Fixing the AC/10 is a topic for another thread.

Edited by Khobai, 22 August 2013 - 02:15 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Khobai, on 22 August 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

The more they tighten the spread on the LB10X, the more it defeats the purpose of the weapon. They are CLUSTER rounds. They are supposed to spread out and hit different locations on a mech, find holes in the armor, and crit components. Once again PGI is going the wrong direction in balancing weapons.

The AC/10 and LB10X are supposed to be fundamentally different weapons and tightening the spread on the LB10X just makes it more like the AC/10.

That's my problem with their "solution". Tightening the spread will make the LB10X more viable, but it just means it becomes a lighter AC/10. That's kinda what it really is in the table top (since you have selectable ammo and all that ****. It's a tech level 2 weapon meant to create ballistic weapons that can compete with DHS enabled level 1 and level 2 energy weapons).

Still, maybe we need to lower our expectations and be happy to settle with "viable" not "sensible" or "variety with balance".

I think the weapon the LBX-10 competes with are:
- AC/20
- SRMs.

AC/20 because that is the shortest range ballistic we have, and the LBX also occupies a ballistic slot and its spread makes it short range.
SRMs because SRMs spread.

In an Atlas D-DC or Atlas D you could install 2 LBX-10 actually!
In a Jagermech JM6-DD you could install LBX-10 or SRMs.

It seems the LBX-10 effective range is better than that of SRMs, since its spread is lower, but it delivers less alpha damage and less DPS, but its considerably more heat efficient. The comparision to the AC/20 looks similar.

I am not sure the heat efficiency is worse the DPS loss.

[xenoglyph]

Khobai, on 22 August 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

The more they tighten the spread on the LB10X, the more it defeats the purpose of the weapon. They are CLUSTER rounds. They are supposed to hit nearly every location on a mech, find holes in the armor, and crit components. The AC/10 and LB10X should be fundamentally different weapons and tightening the spread on the LB10X just makes it more like the AC/10. Once again PGI is going the wrong direction in balancing weapons.

1) LB10X should have a fairly wide spread so it hits almost every location on a mech

2) LB10X should fire in a cylinder pattern rather than a cone pattern so its accuracy doesnt degrade at range

3) LB10X should do more damage per pellet and pellets should have a higher critical damage multiplier

4) LB10X should be able to switch between cluster and slug rounds but should fire slug rounds slower
than the AC/10 so the AC/10 remains viable (the AC/10 should also be able to use ammo types the LB10X cant)

And thats how you fix the LB10X... Fixing the AC/10 is a topic for another thread.

I agree. But it seems they're stubborn and don't like to accept good ideas, so I'll take tighter spread instead.

[Master Q]

"slightly less horrible", but they still suck. Range/damage ability less effective than a single SRM4.

[Syllogy]

Master Q, on 22 August 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

"slightly less horrible", but they still suck. Range/damage ability less effective than a single SRM4.

Uh... no? SRM4 = 8 Damage, Max Range 270.

I'm pretty sure that my LB-10X can hit at least 8 slugs @ 270.

[tayhimself]

Khobai, on 22 August 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

The more they tighten the spread on the LB10X, the more it defeats the purpose of the weapon. They are CLUSTER rounds. They are supposed to hit nearly every location on a mech, find holes in the armor, and crit components. The AC/10 and LB10X should be fundamentally different weapons and tightening the spread on the LB10X just makes it more like the AC/10. Once again PGI is going the wrong direction in balancing weapons.

1) LB10X should have a fairly wide spread so it hits almost every location on a mech

2) LB10X should fire in a cylinder pattern rather than a cone pattern so its accuracy doesnt degrade at range

3) LB10X should do more damage per pellet and pellets should have a higher critical damage multiplier

4) LB10X should be able to switch between cluster and slug rounds but should fire slug rounds slower
than the AC/10 so the AC/10 remains viable (the AC/10 should also be able to use ammo types the LB10X cant)

And thats how you fix the LB10X... Fixing the AC/10 is a topic for another thread.

Great post, would like an AC/10 fix at some point as well.

Edited by tayhimself, 22 August 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[N a p e s]

I was against the higher damage per pellet idea initially but I think that's what the weapon needs to be really viable. Conversely increasing the ROF to about 2 seconds might be just as good.

[LeShadow]

I actually like where they are right now. The current spread allows you to focus on a single section in brawls with Heavies and Assaults while retaining the ability to effectively hunt Lights (they deal with lag and hitreg issues better than lasers, it seems).

13+ tons with ammo are still a big investment for something that's basically useless beyond brawling range, but if you just can't fit that Gauss or AC/20, the LB 10-X is really worth a second look.

[Ryokens leap]

Pug match before work today- 5N with LBX10, 2 MG'S, ERPPC. 6 kills, 5 assists, 650 damage. Killed 2 Ravens at 300-400 meters, LBX spread is nice.

[Steelgrave]

Ryokens leap, on 22 August 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Pug match before work today- 5N with LBX10, 2 MG'S, ERPPC. 6 kills, 5 assists, 650 damage. Killed 2 Ravens at 300-400 meters, LBX spread is nice.

I had some high damage, high kill matches in my dual lbx jaeger last night as well.

The gun works surprisingly well now in my experience. Especially when hunting wounded ducks. It seems to mangle internals rather admirably.

My best round with it last night was 4 kills, 700+ damage.

dual lbx +4 med lasers

[MeiSooHaityu]

I might re-visit the "Double Barrel" Cat K2. It was awesome before because it was fast (maxed out engine) and could still mount 4 MLasers. Now that LBX is a bit imnproved, it might be enough to warrant going back (especially firing 2 at a time).

Hmm.

[Steelgrave]

MeiSooHaityu, on 22 August 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

I might re-visit the "Double Barrel" Cat K2. It was awesome before because it was fast (maxed out engine) and could still mount 4 MLasers. Now that LBX is a bit imnproved, it might be enough to warrant going back (especially firing 2 at a time).

Hmm.

You might like it.

I had a number of times last night where I one-shot damaged mechs with them. Now I can't say for certain that the lbx's qualities are responsible, but it sure seemed that way.

[Karpundir]

I think the LBX-10 cone reduction was appropriate, given it's range. Previously, you would have 3-5 "pellets" hit at mid-range, now you can get 8+ on target when aiming at CT. I don't think it should be any tighter than it is currently, or you might as well be an AC10 (which would be really nice if it could use some love in reduced cooldown time).

The LBX-10s pair up really nicely with other spread-type weapons such as Streaks, SRMs or even MGs as a crit machine. Just try out a Jager with 2 x LBX-10s, 4 MGs and 2 MLs. It does surprisingly well and can handle lights, too.

[Almond Brown]

Steelgrave, on 22 August 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

You might like it.

I had a number of times last night where I one-shot damaged mechs with them. Now I can't say for certain that the lbx's qualities are responsible, but it sure seemed that way.

Quote

"This weapon has an increased crit chance and additional damage. + 14% chance to do 2.00 dmg, + 8% chance to do 4.00 dmg, + 3% chance to do 6.00 dmg"

May not seem like much on the surface but I do believe that is per "Pellet".

[Foxwalker]

Had some fun last night in a Jaeger. Setup
Right Side
1 AC20
1 Medium Laser

Left Side
1 LBX10
2 SRM4
1 Medium laser

Made a good one, two punch.

[Captain Stiffy]

xenoglyph, on 21 August 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

I have a D-DC build that I screw around with sometimes; the 'super shotgun': dual LBX-10 + triple SRM-6 + dual MLAS. It's pretty horrible, but fun to play sometimes if you're a fan of ammo explosions.

It's slightly less horrible now, thanks PGI.

Reduce the spread a bit more and I think the LBX-10 will actually be in a good place.

If you consider yourself good at this game you should be able to at least occasionally 1000+ dmg in an Atlas with 2x LB10.

Try;
2x LB10x
2x LL (or 1xLL 1xMPL and more heat sinks or engine)
3x SSRM2

2xLB10 and 2xLPL is also good (screw missiles)

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 22 August 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you consider yourself good at this game you should be able to at least occasionally 1000+ dmg in an Atlas with 2x LB10.

I actually won #1 assault in the very first tournament using a D-DC with dual LB10Xs and SRMs. Of course that was back when SRMs were way overpowered because of all the splash damage.