27 replies to this topic

[ColdHeat]

I just had a match in my Centurion. I was on a hill, looking at the enemy when suddenly a shot hit my back and insta killed me, destroying the XL in my right torso rear (12 armor). I had no ammo in that spot. To that moment, i had received not a single bit of damage and after asking how that was even possible all i got was a "DONT LEAVE YOUR *** TO A GOON". Whatever that means. By the way: he drove a Cataphract with 2 PPCs and a Gauss.

Now i ask you: is that really possible? Doing that much of damage with a single barrage of your guns to one hit kill a medium mech. Or was he cheating or simply lucky? I'm honestly confused right now.

[Hillslam]

Completely legit and possible

[Thoummim]

Completely possible, also standard are usually better in a cent it really really help survivability.

[Pac Man]

That's 12 damage to your armor, and 18 to your internals, which is an XL. So yeah, that is possible. I did a similar thing to a new player recently in a Cicada (Sorry, if you read this, again). I have an Alpha of 44 damage without ghost heat, and hit him in the cockpit. :/

[Hellen Wheels]

ColdHeat, on 27 August 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

I just had a match in my Centurion. I was on a hill, looking at the enemy when suddenly a shot hit my back and insta killed me, destroying the XL in my right torso rear (12 armor)......

Well there's your problem right there. XLs are notoriously fragile, and only TWELVE armor on your right buttock??

That's just asking for it.

[Skadi]

You deserve this for both having an XL in a cent and standing still in a cent, sorry

[Redshift2k5]

Such is the danger of using an XL engine, as well as the danger of allowing an enemy to get behind you to line up a perfect back shot. Map awareness and modules (seismic sensor)

12 rear LT armor, 24 internal (?), not that hard to blow through that small amount of armor and kill a side torso in one shot, especially is they used a stack of SRMs at close range or a pair of AC20s or a pair of Gauss rifles.

time for a standard engine.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 27 August 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[ColdHeat]

Regarding that a Hunchback can do everything better that my YLW can, XL speed is it's only advantage and usually that loadout works very well. I was simply more than surprised because that never happened to me before and i thought that much of an alpha to be impossible. Well.. it appears i was wrong.

Thanks for the answers guys

Edited by ColdHeat, 27 August 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[StarGeezer]

Yeah, it happens. Got head-shot early on in two consecutive matches last week...once in my Cat K2, and once in my Jenner D(S). Lesson learned...keep your head down and keep moving.

[Redshift2k5]

ColdHeat, on 27 August 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Regarding that a Hunchback can do everything better that my YLW can, XL speed is it's only advantage and usually that loadout works very well. I was simply more than surprised because that never happened to me before and i thought that much of an alpha to be impossible. Well.. it appears i was wrong.

Thanks for the answers guys

Good luck! Buy a seismic sensor and be wary of areas of the map where you may be flanked by surprise.

[Wintersdark]

Skadi, on 27 August 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

You deserve this for both having an XL in a cent and standing still in a cent, sorry

Seriously. Centurions are one of the most durable mechs in the game, unless you pack an XL engine. I'm a huge XL fan, too, and I run them in many of my mechs... but a Centurion? Never do that. A Centurion with a standard engine is nearly indestructible, because while the arms/side torsos are easy to hit, the center torso is very, very hard to hit. Damage transference means your CT is thus only taking 25-50% of the damage dealt to your mech, so you can keep fighting for a long, long time.

But as soon as you put an XL in there, that's all irrelevant, because your side torsos are pretty easy to clip off.

Don't do that.

Now, as to your original question: Yes, it's entirely doable. Gauss+2PPC = 35 damage. If he scored crits with that damage(and he probably did), a percentage of THAT damage is echoed back to your structure as well.

ColdHeat, on 27 August 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Regarding that a Hunchback can do everything better that my YLW can, XL speed is it's only advantage and usually that loadout works very well. I was simply more than surprised because that never happened to me before and i thought that much of an alpha to be impossible. Well.. it appears i was wrong.

Thanks for the answers guys

No, no, no.

A Hunchback is nowheres near as durable as Centurion, period. Same armor, but the Hunchback's AC20 is a huge target that's largely impossible to protect (twist away, I dare you - I'll still hit that torso) and the Hunchback lacks the Centurion's huge arm stubs to protect it's CT.

Also, the YLW has the advantage of mounting it's AC20 in it's arm, where it benefits from vastly increased aiming radius (particularly vertically) and quick movement. Sure, your arm can be shot off, but it's easier to protect with the Cent's opposite arm than the Hunchies' hunch.

[Koniving]

ColdHeat, on 27 August 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

I just had a match in my Centurion. I was on a hill, looking at the enemy when suddenly a shot hit my back and insta killed me, destroying the XL in my right torso rear (12 armor). I had no ammo in that spot. To that moment, i had received not a single bit of damage and after asking how that was even possible all i got was a "DONT LEAVE YOUR *** TO A GOON". Whatever that means. By the way: he drove a Cataphract with 2 PPCs and a Gauss.

Now i ask you: is that really possible? Doing that much of damage with a single barrage of your guns to one hit kill a medium mech. Or was he cheating or simply lucky? I'm honestly confused right now.

The math, if you care for it.

2 PPCs or ER PPCs, within optimal ranges and a gauss rifle total (10 + 10 + 15) 35 damage. A fairly low alpha considering how this game allows you to literally abuse alpha strikes with capacities so high that PGI's own words were "it negated the need for heat management."

A stock Centurion has 12 armor on the rear. Even my tricked out Centurions still feature no more than 12 armor on the rear unless using the Turtleback design; which I might never use again unless heat capacity gets lowered to a reasonable 30 to 45 level instead of this 70 to 88.56 average b.s. (As in, you have to reach 88.56 heat to shut down. Picture reaching that when you generate 4 heat per second, and cool it at 3 per second.)

That said: Your internal health is equal to one half the maximum armor.

LT: Max Armor 48 / 2 = 24 IS
CT: 64 / 2 = 32 IS
RT: 48 / 2 = 24 IS

Let's assume you had 12 armor on your rear. Unblemished.
Side torso: 12 + 24 = 32 points he'd have to get through. He did 35. Instant death side torso.
Center torso: 12 + 32 = 44 points he'd have to get through. He did 35, you'd be alive with 9 points of health left, a single large laser would kill you.

Answer your question? I'm always happy to answer anything when my internet works. I just got it back up otherwise I'd have answered sooner.

[Wintersdark]

Koniving, on 27 August 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

The math, if you care for it.

2 PPCs or ER PPCs, within optimal ranges and a gauss rifle total (10 + 10 + 15) 35 damage. A fairly low alpha considering how this game allows you to literally abuse alpha strikes with capacities so high that PGI's own words were "it negated the need for heat management."

A stock Centurion has 12 armor on the rear. Even my tricked out Centurions still feature no more than 12 armor on the rear unless using the Turtleback design; which I might never use again unless heat capacity gets lowered to a reasonable 30 to 45 level instead of this 70 to 88.56 average b.s. (As in, you have to reach 88.56 heat to shut down. Picture reaching that when you generate 4 heat per second, and cool it at 3 per second.)

That said: Your internal health is equal to one half the maximum armor.

LT: Max Armor 48 / 2 = 24 IS
CT: 64 / 2 = 32 IS
RT: 48 / 2 = 24 IS

Let's assume you had 12 armor on your rear. Unblemished.
Side torso: 12 + 24 = 32 points he'd have to get through. He did 35. Instant death side torso.
Center torso: 12 + 32 = 44 points he'd have to get through. He did 35, you'd be alive with 9 points of health left, a single large laser would kill you.

Answer your question? I'm always happy to answer anything when my internet works. I just got it back up otherwise I'd have answered sooner.

As I noted above, remember: A portion of critical damage is echoed back to the structure. It's theoretically possible for each weapon to crit, and do up to three crits. The Gauss Rifle, then, can do it's 15 damage + 45 damage to crits, and a percentage of that 45 is added to the internal structure damage.

The crit damage echoing change was big news for Machine Guns, but it affects everything and can make a big difference overall.

[Koniving]

Wintersdark, on 27 August 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

As I noted above, remember: A portion of critical damage is echoed back to the structure. It's theoretically possible for each weapon to crit, and do up to three crits. The Gauss Rifle, then, can do it's 15 damage + 45 damage to crits, and a percentage of that 45 is added to the internal structure damage.

The crit damage echoing change was big news for Machine Guns, but it affects everything and can make a big difference overall.

45 damage to crits? I'd be interested in a list of crit chances and potential damage with a weapon list.

Also it's 15% damage, so 15% of 45 is 6.75 on top of the actual gauss rifle damage if what you are saying is true. That's a bit insane, and I've never really known Gauss rifles to destroy crit-items. At least not mine.

[Wintersdark]

Koniving, on 27 August 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

45 damage to crits? I'd be interested in a list of crit chances and potential damage with a weapon list.

Also it's 15% damage, so 15% of 45 is 6.75 on top of the actual gauss rifle damage if what you are saying is true. That's a bit insane, and I've never really known Gauss rifles to destroy crit-items. At least not mine.

All weapons have a 25% chance of doing one critical hit, 14% for 2 hits,and 3% to do 3 critical hits on any strike that damages internals. Any critical hit does weapon damage to internal components.

So, on a penetrating Gauss hit, there's a 3% chance that you'll do 45 damage to internal components. This could be spread between three components of course as its 3 15 damage hits, but that's irrelevant for these purposes.

This is why the lbx has always been a poor crit seeker. Even though it and the machine gun have higher probabilities to do critical hits, the lbx does very small crits whereas an ac10 can destroy three fully functional components in a single strike.

Bryan and David Bradley explained how crits work in a command chair post, or maybe an ATD, I forget. Its covered as well in the "Crits and you" guide around here somewhere - Google can find it (I'm on my phone or I'd get you proper links, but I assure you that is indeed how crits work).



Ah, the guide is here: http://mwo.gamepedia...-_A_Brief_Guide

The explanation on how crits work at the top is a direct quote from Bryan's post.

[Koniving]

*Nods.* It needs an update. AC/20 has 18 HP. So not all weapons have 10. Still interesting, I was hoping it had specifics for the Gauss Rifle.

[Tesunie]

Pac Man, on 27 August 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

That's 12 damage to your armor, and 18 to your internals, which is an XL. So yeah, that is possible. I did a similar thing to a new player recently in a Cicada (Sorry, if you read this, again). I have an Alpha of 44 damage without ghost heat, and hit him in the cockpit. :/

Earlier today, I got cored in a single shot in a Cicada 3C... but I wasn't shot in the head. It was really... weird. Kinda reported it as... something. (stock 3C for fun.)

Thing was, a Large laser hit me, a PPC, and a Gauss. My Right Arm was armorless, my Right Torsos was red armor, my CT was gone, and my Left Leg was yellow armor. No idea what happened, but if each weapon hit each location once, I should have lived.

Other than that, everything was fine.

[Wintersdark]

Koniving, on 27 August 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

*Nods.* It needs an update. AC/20 has 18 HP. So not all weapons have 10. Still interesting, I was hoping it had specifics for the Gauss Rifle.

The gauss rifle does critical damage like every other weapon without special rules. The only thing unusual about the gauss rifle is:
3hp
90% chance to explode for 20 damage

The ac20 has 18hp, LBX and MG have higher crit chance %'s .

Aside from that, all weapons are 10hp, and 25/14/3% for 1/2/3 crits at weapon damage.

[Wintersdark]

Tesunie, on 27 August 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Earlier today, I got cored in a single shot in a Cicada 3C... but I wasn't shot in the head. It was really... weird. Kinda reported it as... something. (stock 3C for fun.)

Thing was, a Large laser hit me, a PPC, and a Gauss. My Right Arm was armorless, my Right Torsos was red armor, my CT was gone, and my Left Leg was yellow armor. No idea what happened, but if each weapon hit each location once, I should have lived.

Other than that, everything was fine.

Large laser could have hit multiple locations. CT penetrating hits could have crit for extra internal damage. Ammo explosions could have got you (3c is the ballistic CDA right?)

Also, the most common thing here is that other people hit you at the same time and you didn't notice - we don't have a combat log to confirm, and this is a very common thing to happen. There are lots of ways for that to happen with no indication to you.

[Tesunie]

Wintersdark, on 27 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Large laser could have hit multiple locations. CT penetrating hits could have crit for extra internal damage. Ammo explosions could have got you (3c is the ballistic CDA right?)

Also, the most common thing here is that other people hit you at the same time and you didn't notice - we don't have a combat log to confirm, and this is a very common thing to happen. There are lots of ways for that to happen with no indication to you.

I did consider what you mentioned, but only one mech shot and hit me. If multiple weapons of the same type hit me, it would not stack them in the damage report but place individual logs of them. To top it off, it says Cause of Death, Engine Destruction. Ammo did not blow.



Also, I hit three confirmed hits with the PPC, and did only 4 points of damage. Can't confirm the hits any better as I hit a stationary Jagermech. Can't say I now where I hit the enemy, but I know I hit him.