1105 replies to this topic

[Warge]

Mechwarrior0311, on 28 August 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

I think that PGI is going to wow us all sometime inthe future

They can wow me with bankruptcy if they like...

[Thuzel]

TLBFestus, on 29 August 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

I assume that that was a refund on your Phoenix Pack or did you get a refund on your Founders Pack? I'm curious to know if anyone has been refunded their Founders Pack money in the past few weeks. Early on I was not planning on it, having gotten my PP money back already, but I'm inching towards the cliff these days, using the Canadian Competition Bureau position on False or Misleading Representations as my basis (you can google it, I'll refrain from a link this time).

Someone earlier mentioned that the "launch" could be a convenient way to lock up the Founders money, and it got me thinking that I will have to make up my mind before that date. Barring a patch and significant improvements of course.

Maybe having nothing invested in the game would remove my angst over it.

Just my Phoenix package right now. I'm sleeping on it before I take any further action, just want to be sure before I do anything else. I'm also considering joining others in filing official complaints with the Canadian authorities, FTC, etc...

-- edit --

If any PGI people do actually read this, I'd seriously recommend reigning it in. I would have been a lot less likely to pursue further action without the troll posts and twitter comments.

Edited by Thuzel, 30 August 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[TLBFestus]

Jakob Knight, on 30 August 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

The problem with people trying to get a refund for their Founder's Packages is the same problem the people crying for a Clan Founder's Package have. The Founder's Package in any game or project is a startup contribution to a proposed project, and a risk investment. There is no guarantee of success or that your investment will yield rewards (though many people making such an investment are under the illusion that they have some entitlement to them regardless), or that the investment will be in any way recoverable at a later time, as this is simply taking a chance that a product or project will succeed in return for special benefits for taking the risk in helping that project get started.

In short, you donated money to a project in the hope of rewards if it succeeded with full knowledge that that money would not be recoverable in the event of an event failure. You took a risk, and you knew the risk when you made the donation. Note that it was the donation that was important, with the rewards a nice 'thank-you', but it -was- a donation. Asking for a donation back is fine (though extremely poor taste and a reflection upon your character), but demanding it back would require alot of proof that the donation was made as the result of outright deception about what the donation was intended for.

Thus, trying to get a refund for a Founder's Package is going to be completely at the descretion of the company managing the project. And, to be frank, they haven't failed to use the donation for the purpose it was asked: to make Mechwarrior Online a reality. Some parts have changed, yes, but from a legal standpoint, I don't think anyone has a leg to stand on if they try anything legal in this regards. This is also why asking for a Founder's Package now is ludicrous. The risk phase is long past, so it is hardly right to ask for the same benefits now.

However, while trying to get a refund for the Founder's Package is probably not viable (and shouldn't be done if people were honest when they decided to do it in the first place), the Overlord Package is a purchase of a product, and one that has not even been delivered yet. That package was in no way a donation, and so can be viewed as any online transaction. In this case, a much better chance of success exists.

I appreciate your answer, although I don't necessarily agree with it. I don't recall at anytime when I considered and finally purchased the Founders package that it was referred to as a "donation". Here's one old link referencing to it that I quickly dug up;

http://mwomercs.com/...age-on-sale-now

It boils down to interpretation of what product was promised to the consumer and what product was actually delivered. To be clear, I'm still on the fence about even trying this, but my level of frustration with PGI and it's direction have me feeling like I was the victim of a "bait and switch" on their part.

Funny thing is if you go way, way back and look at my earlier posts, back to when 3rd person came up I actually predicted that what is happening was going to occur, that 3rd person would be implemented to widen the player base, and that it would eventually shunt 1st person off to the side and eventually kill it (still to be seen).

I would have been happy to have had a 1st person queue only if simply to delay that day, but with this patch they took that away. I have my doubts that they will bring it back and putting it back in for 12 man organized drops will not help me a bit. Oddly enough when PGI puts up a poll (FP view for 12 man sync drops) they will listen to the forum membership as a group, but not when members of the forum itself put up a poll.

All of my original posts when I got to these forums were happy, excited topics full of optimism and energy for the game. In the past months they've changed as my outlook on the game has deteriorated. I suppose that's why I'm considering an attempt at a Founders refund, it's reaching the point where I want to punish the game rather than support it, and that is sad.

If I go down that road, it's not because I need the money but to strike back, something I wouldn't normally do. I wouldn't think that PGI wants a bunch of complaints claiming false and misleading sales practices to hit the news at any time, launch or not. War Z, now "Infestation: Survivor Stories" road it out and still has a pulse, but doe PGI want to have that kind of reputation?

I'm still holding out some small hope for reason on the part of the Devs.

[Thuzel]

TLBFestus, on 30 August 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

I appreciate your answer, although I don't necessarily agree with it. I don't recall at anytime when I considered and finally purchased the Founders package that it was referred to as a "donation". Here's one old link referencing to it that I quickly dug up;

http://mwomercs.com/...age-on-sale-now

It boils down to interpretation of what product was promised to the consumer and what product was actually delivered. To be clear, I'm still on the fence about even trying this, but my level of frustration with PGI and it's direction have me feeling like I was the victim of a "bait and switch" on their part.

I think that's the only reasonable way to look at it. What we engaged in with PGI for the Founder's sale was not a typical (legal) investment but more of a contract. We exchanged money in return for future promised items and services.

So the question now is, did they make good on their end? In order to determine that, we have to decide what constitutes the material aspects PGI's side of the agreement. Personally, I'm still compiling that list but I can already tell you that "no 3pv in mixed mode" is on there and they've definitely breached it.

[EvilCow]

Edited: pic changed.

Edited by EvilCow, 31 August 2013 - 12:34 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Tolkien, on 30 August 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

When I read this, something in my memories from high school history stirred...

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
-Joseph Goebbels

Tehe, the thread is now Godwin's Law. Western and Modern Governments are likened to national socialists/imperialists(governments always have a power control bias and tricking people), but I don't know about game developers... perhaps game publishers like EA.

What actually happens in game development is sometimes the Dunning-Kruger Effect, which can be over-come. There are other names for it too.

Edited by General Taskeen, 30 August 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[LtPoncho]

With the 'Policy' wordings of the original post being reiterated to an understanding of 'what you say can and will be used against you in a court of law', I will 'conduct myself accordingly' while providing here what I assume to be an open forum of opinion - brief and to the point. "[color="#cccccc"]MechWarrior Online is constantly evolving and changing[/color]" - since participating in the closed beta I've seen more mechs, more maps and 1 more gameplay mode. As it is clear the game is expanding horizontally, it's really hard to grasp your concept of game evolution, particularly given many of the factors attributed to the lore of this game. While some will continue wait with baited breath, the OP does not give much in the sense of positive ROI time investment, but rather, prepare the audience for more of the same skirmish style of brand. It's particularly evident that your analytics (that you choose to capture) are driving your vision, and not the other way around. Cheers.

[jozkhan]

y'all seen this right?

http://www.starburst...hwarrior-online

[Chronojam]

At this point I'm a little embarrassed of what I've apparently founded.

[Sadist Cain]

Matheos, on 29 August 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

I barely post on the forum so I suppose I'm one of the silent majority. I am a long term veteran of the mechwarrior series too. Maybe I'm closer to your unknown "target demographic"?

LOL! I do apologise but man that would be the dream.

Unfortunately unless you're still sucking on your mothers ***, spend your pocket money on ringtones and ludicrously priced paintjobs for characters in an online game and are generally confused about online games because your x-box controller wont connect to your laptop wirelessly then no you are most likely not within the target demographic

[Tolkien]

jozkhan, on 30 August 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

y'all seen this right?

http://www.starburst...hwarrior-online

Nope but it goes well along side themittani, loaded dice, and penny-arcade. Thanks!

[Chronojam]

Tolkien, on 30 August 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Nope but it goes well along side themittani, loaded dice, and penny-arcade. Thanks!

To be fair, the Mittani article was not written by a professional game reviewer, but was instead written by a BattleTech author and long-time series fan.

[SoYFooD]

to all PGI en IGP how got down to this part of ther tread.
please keep up hope.
i read the first page en i cant think of a way to love the people who write this.
there is no hate or anger in my voice but i lose hope wen i read the tone en the trends on almost all of the forum.

devs pleas know these people mean well but lack in projecting this.

en just smile, because fore people to be so hostile fearful en condescending u MUST be handling some thing they really really love en want, giving u the power over them.
en like a shepherd with his big barking dogs u lead the flock to greener postures while hearing nothing but (blaaaaaaaaaaaaaat).

[Savageson]

If you go to http://piranhagames.com/ it still lists them as putting us into the first person view of a mech as stated by this line.

[color=#333333]By placing the player in a first person view of a BattleMech pilot, MechWarrior Online provides a whole new level of immersion into the game space.[/color]

I just feel so sad right now...So sad.

This was sold as first person only game. Its no longer a first person game and still has other key features missing. Why should they have my money still I really question.

Edited by Savageson, 30 August 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[GumbyC2C]

/facepalm

You seriously consider 12v12 and 3PV successes? They're just not. 3PV would be fine if you had kept your promise of players "never being forced to play against 3PV" Despite your double talking, the word "never" has a very specific meaning and does in fact constitute a promise. The funny thing is that I don't even think 3PV is overpowered. My issue with it is that it makes my team worse because these new guys cannot comprehend what I say when I give them map coordinates for movement or enemy mechs. I want separate queues because you said there would be separate queues and because I don't want to play with anyone who lacks the commitment to the team to play the mech in a useful way. Courting new players is good. Every game needs new players to stay alive. But the worst way to do that is at the expense of your existing player base. If you make a great game, they will show up but if you make a bad game, everyone leaves.

[Riptor]

Tolkien, on 30 August 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

When I read this, something in my memories from high school history stirred...

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
-Joseph Goebbels

Thought comparing PGI to {Godwin's Law} is a bit over the top..

[Wired]

Dear PGI:

The following game is going to take away your 3pv demographic. Thank you for wasting our time and yours.

[Riptor]

Wired, on 30 August 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Dear PGI:

The following game is going to take away your 3pv demographic. Thank you for wasting our time and yours.

And you think this project (wich hasnt updated in months btw) will somehow magically make it where mektek and the mw;LL guys had to stop?

[Wired]

Riptor, on 30 August 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

And you think this project (wich hasnt updated in months btw) will somehow magically make it where mektek and the mw;LL guys had to stop?

Even if the project has stopped, this is still a good example of the gameplay the 3pv crowd actually wants. They are flighty beasts.

[Legend_]

With everything else aside, everything that's gone **** up to this point, I think the real make or break moment for this game will come with the "CW Announcement" during the launch event.

If they don't have something epic planned, if they don't outline a system that's going to have people thinking "Yeah, that's something I'm gonna put time into", if they balls it up.. I think that'll be the moment the community breaks completely.

It's been 2 years, give or take, since there's been ANY MENTION OF CW AT ALL. If, after those two years, they have nothing of real worth to show for it.. I think it's safe to say it's over for MWO.



26 days and counting until the launch event.

26 days and counting until MWO's D-Day.

Edited by chiXu, 31 August 2013 - 12:29 AM.