1105 replies to this topic

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

Gixx, on 28 August 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Seriously though, just tell me one thing: Will I be able to HOLD backspace to delete messages in the game's chat? Because that would be...what every other program made after 1995 already does.

Don't ask for things that are even more complicated then UI 2.0 or CW ...

LOL. I think this is the one thing that stands as example the whole game / development quality

[Ransack]

POWR, on 28 August 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

Assists don't pay out more than kills.

8600 divided by 2 =4300
32,500 divided by 5 = 6500

is my math off?

Quote

There's no encouragement of suicide farming.


The argument rests on the fact that players will actually attempt to play and win the round, but that if they should die, they can go play another match in another mech. If you call that encouraging suicide farming, then I guess there's no reason to play the game in any way, at all, ever. Because obviously, if the only reason to play the game is some kind of limbo state of perfection that is not achievable without spending 500 hours, then, well, what's the point of playing? Why are you playing? To suicide farm? Are you ever having fun? Is it impossible to have fun in MWO?

You really think the best of people don't you? Suicide farming was bad in closed beta, it was bad in open beta, and will be bad no matter what.

You know what, I will let you believe what you wish.

Edited by Ransack, 28 August 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[Trev Firestorm]

All I can say is at least it is more coherent than Russ's non-apology. It is just as useless and gives away more insights on how screwed up things in the background are. Russ as much as said the player base is too small for split queues and this says that player retention standards are not even a month but a single week!

All players, like it or hate it or no strong opinion, there is another poll up, self selection bias or not its a better meter than making straight up assumptions about a supposed silent majority: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/133313-upset-or-happy-with-mwo-gauging-numbers-of-the-minority/

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 28 August 2013 - 02:34 AM.

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

Ransack, on 28 August 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

8600 divided by 2 =4300
32,500 divided by 5 = 6500

is my math off?

As I understand an earlier post in this thread, you have to add the "component destruction" value to the "kill" value. The equation then would read

Assist: 32,500 divided by 5 = 6500
Kill: (8600+8369=16969)/2=8484,5

However, and this also stands example for the game quality, you want find (at leas with the searc function this forum provides) a clear documentation on how C-Bills are calculated. So above is just an asumptionmade by someone.

But then - they can't even provide a forum that doesn't log you off during reading

[chumppi]

So pretty much "We are right, you are wrong, you are the vocal minority. Shut up and get in line with the silent majority"?

[Levon K]

Hi, I read as many posts as I could before getting sick to my stomach. I think this vocal community has gone way overboard.

I used to enjoy the arguments and analysis, back when the most recent posts (usually from General Discussion) were posted on the main page.

Now every time I come to read up on what's happening, I see loads of disgusting, childish, pointless slights against PGI and their staff.

Take a look at the "community" feedback for this September update. It's rotten. I would be embarrassed if you put me in the same class as 99% of the posters here.

The September creative update is good. I enjoyed reading it. I bet you if this was an update made in February, then the feedback would have been infinitely more positive. However, a lot of these forum warriors have gotten "violent" since they didn't get what they wanted and feel like they were owed something. I'm not sure what kind of world you live in, but this must have been the first time somebody ever broke a promise to you. It happens, and it happens for a reason. And usually you have no clue what brought the other party to make that decision.

And people are actually asking for their founders money back? That's the most immature concept I've encountered in a very long time.

Thanks for the creative update. Patiently awaiting release. See ya.

[Aym]

SAYF, on 27 August 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

[/color]
Frankly I think the biggest challenge that PGI/IGP is facing NOW is the momentum of discontent. I for one, genuinely believe that they not trying "kill the franchise" as some have offered. They're caught between making money and keeping the overall dogmatic philosophy of the game. Have they done some things and made unfulfilled promises that warrant blow-back from the community? Yes. Does running off and uninstalling the game because they added 3PV? No. They obviously are trying to keep as many people playing the game as possible. They are not an evil organization hell-bent on ruining the Mechwarrior experience. So lets put this in perspective:

If everyone stops playing the game, that means Mechwarrior wont be around...which means we'll all have to wait another 5-10 years before someone else decides to resurrect the franchise out the ashes of PGI/IGP. So instead of screaming at the developers for trying to make a game that everyone can enjoy, lets support them, both communally and financially. Because the other option is not having the game at all, and I'm not waiting another 13 years for this game to come back, if some of you remember MPBT 3025.

And I dont care what some folks are saying out there...Star Citizen or War Thunder, etc...is not the same as strapping on a 100 ton Atlas and shoving my foot up a Jenner's ***. So strap that nuclear fusion XL Engine to your balls and lets blow some 'Mechs up!!

- SAYF

I was pretty close to liking this post, then saw you put an XL Engine in an Atlas and that pretty much means we can disregard your understanding of this game ;-)

[Mr Andersson]

Aware, on 27 August 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

If the forums are the "vocal minority" why even have them?

Very good point.

I guess they listen to ut when it is convenient for them.

[DemonRaziel]

Quax1102, on 28 August 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

As I understand an earlier post in this thread, you have to add the "component destruction" value to the "kill" value. The equation then would read

Assist: 32,500 divided by 5 = 6500
Kill: (8600+8369=16969)/2=8484,5

He's destroyed 4 components, so it's (8396/4 = 2099) + (8600/2 = 4300) = 6399

[Ransack]

Quax1102, on 28 August 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

As I understand an earlier post in this thread, you have to add the "component destruction" value to the "kill" value. The equation then would read

Assist: 32,500 divided by 5 = 6500
Kill: (8600+8369=16969)/2=8484,5

However, and this also stands example for the game quality, you want find (at leas with the searc function this forum provides) a clear documentation on how C-Bills are calculated. So above is just an asumptionmade by someone.

But then - they can't even provide a forum that doesn't log you off during reading

I dunno, I see a section in there that gives me the total for component destruction, which is added to the other totals to give me the final amount.

[Sam Slade]

InnerSphereNews, on 27 August 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

[color=#CCCCCC] Community[/color]

[color=#CCCCCC]I also wanted to take time to clear up a few laundry items, mostly to do with communication and promises. I think I’ll start with a lesson from my wife: Never say never, or always.[/color]
[color=#CCCCCC]

[/color]

Perhaps advice from someone with a legal background would have been better? Like "Never SELL always or never".

[Trev Firestorm]

Quax1102, on 28 August 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

As I understand an earlier post in this thread, you have to add the "component destruction" value to the "kill" value. The equation then would read

Assist: 32,500 divided by 5 = 6500
Kill: (8600+8369=16969)/2=8484,5

However, and this also stands example for the game quality, you want find (at leas with the searc function this forum provides) a clear documentation on how C-Bills are calculated. So above is just an asumptionmade by someone.

But then - they can't even provide a forum that doesn't log you off during reading

That's a bit tricky, a kill always has at least one component destruction, but assists can as well, which is why component destruction and damage rewards can't really be rolled into kill vs assist numbers. Edit: Non-kills/assists are also included in these 2 separate groups as well when they happen.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 28 August 2013 - 03:02 AM.

[Aym]

I'm not demanding a refund, and I'm hoping they change course on the C-bill earnings, gameplay pacing, weapon balance, and introduce an awesome tutorial. However, until these things happen I can't recommend this game or spend any money on it, even though during early Open Beta I introduced a half dozen friends to the game that loved it. None are still playing. Think about that, a year ago people I introduced to the game spent money on MC, and aren't playing now. They didn't bother to come to the forums to complain about the changes that drove them away, they went away silently... The silent majority perhaps?

Edited by Aym, 28 August 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Onmyoudo]

Levon K, on 28 August 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

Take a look at the "community" feedback for this September update. It's rotten. I would be embarrassed if you put me in the same class as 99% of the posters here.

The September creative update is good. I enjoyed reading it. I bet you if this was an update made in February, then the feedback would have been infinitely more positive. However, a lot of these forum warriors have gotten "violent" since they didn't get what they wanted and feel like they were owed something. I'm not sure what kind of world you live in, but this must have been the first time somebody ever broke a promise to you. It happens, and it happens for a reason. And usually you have no clue what brought the other party to make that decision.

And people are actually asking for their founders money back? That's the most immature concept I've encountered in a very long time.

While I agree in principle that posters are often too aggressive (especially to the point of forcing PGI to ask people to stop making threats...) and the video game community as a whole has a lot of growing up to do, some of the things you say here are weird and contradictory.

Most of the feedback here is expressing dissatisfaction at a continued lack of information and constantly being told "X is being developed, we will tell you more about it next month" which has been a distressingly common sentiment from PGI.

The September update is not good. It says some things, but only vaguely, and mainly says "we'll tell you more stuff later", as usual. If this came out in February telling us we'd be hearing about CW in March, hells yes it would be more positive. Everyone here has been waiting a year or more for some resemblance of a game to show itself, and a lot of people put down significant amounts of money in order to contribute. These people are owed something - they're owed what they believed they were paying for. I.e. Community Warfare, metagame, blah blah blah.

This is a business transaction, at the end of the day. If you get lied to in a business transaction it goes to court. You can't claim they're entitled whiners and then tell them to buck up because they've been lied to but the real world lies to you all the time. Either you feel they've been lied to you or not, but you can't say "deal with it".

[GnarledKoala]

0okami, on 28 August 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Sigh... you dont get more for a kill than you do for an assist...
To get a kill you need to destroy a component, that destroyed component plus the kill = the assist.

In other words you get the exact same for an assist as you do for a kill since you can not get a kill without destroying atleast one part of the enemy mech.

Sigh...
I really wish people would analyse things before jumping to conclusions.

Umm, its not like people getting an assist can't destroy a component as well... So how is it fair that assist + component destruction > kill + component destruction. Why even do it. Lord knows whatever is going on behind the scenes it ****** me off every time I see that actually killing my enemy caused me to seem to lose money.

A game is a form of communication. If you TELL ME kills earn me less in black and white, why should I care if some invisible maths in the background evens that out... in theory... under a truckload of assumptions. That's part of why ghost heat is an insanely bad idea. If your players can't know about it inside the game, your DESIGN HAS FAILED. It is a failure deeper and more wrong than any math can ever explain. Balance and game design ARE NOT MATH. They USE math. They INVOLVE math. Math is helpful to it. That does not make it fundamentally a function of math. In math 1 = .99 repeating. In game balance it doesn't because .99 repeating does not EXPRESS 1 to the players.

In fact one thing that's gotten under my skill most in this whole mess is the "Now it's twelve mans! We need to adjust money down to match!" line. No you don't. That doesn't even make a little sense. First of all you don't know it's a problem because it hasn't gone live for real testing yet. Second of all, while 8 players means more general money making potential floating around, it also means 8 more money sinks. Third of all, the players never saw any change except for a nerf that cut our money earning by at least 30%, why should we believe that it was going to increase it too much?

If it definitely was going to increase then they could have implemented the first 15% nerf and let the two cancel each other out to soften the blow. There wasn't a good reason to hit us with a major c-bill decrease all at once. Continuing on that thought it also would have given us a taste of skill based boosts early, after all if you need to kill/assist more than 8 mechs in a match to reap significant benefits then by definition only the best players will earn that boost. (I know hitting 12 mechs seems trivial, but you actually have to survive long enough to get within firing distance of all twelve enemies. That is a non-trivial goal in practice.)

I've been trying really hard to just stay out of all this because I'm nowhere near as negative as most... But come the freak on here people. A game is not a spreadsheet and this economic update was timed, primed and made as if they were TRYING to **** people off and salt the wounds. There's got to be a limit to how bad you can be at dealing with people before your bosses agree to hire someone who will at least bother to try and lie about how its raining when you feel like ******* on us.

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

Trev Firestorm, on 28 August 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

That's a bit tricky, a kill always has at least one component destruction, but assists can as well, which is why component destruction and damage rewards can't really be rolled into kill vs assist numbers. Edit: Non-kills/assists are also included in these 2 separate groups as well when they happen.

+1

Which pretty sums up my second-to-last paragraph

[JeremyCrow]

Levon K, on 28 August 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

Hi, I read as many posts as I could before getting sick to my stomach. I think this vocal community has gone way overboard.

I used to enjoy the arguments and analysis, back when the most recent posts (usually from General Discussion) were posted on the main page.

Now every time I come to read up on what's happening, I see loads of disgusting, childish, pointless slights against PGI and their staff.

Take a look at the "community" feedback for this September update. It's rotten. I would be embarrassed if you put me in the same class as 99% of the posters here.

The September creative update is good. I enjoyed reading it. I bet you if this was an update made in February, then the feedback would have been infinitely more positive. However, a lot of these forum warriors have gotten "violent" since they didn't get what they wanted and feel like they were owed something. I'm not sure what kind of world you live in, but this must have been the first time somebody ever broke a promise to you. It happens, and it happens for a reason. And usually you have no clue what brought the other party to make that decision.

And people are actually asking for their founders money back? That's the most immature concept I've encountered in a very long time.

Thanks for the creative update. Patiently awaiting release. See ya.

I'm sorry... what update? It says absolutely nothing except mocking the players by saying that 3PV was a great success, when there's like 500 pages of people saying it's rubbish (and after the big man felt he had to apologize for it).

These are examples of good CDU's:

http://mwomercs.com/...irector-update/
http://mwomercs.com/...irector-update/

[Sasha Volkova]

SFoster, on 28 August 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Stuff~

First of all, everyone can get a component destruction by removing an arm or a leg so your initial argument is invalid.

As for a kills and an assist.
You can not get the killingblow (which is a component destruction) if you get an assist.
Due to that an assist and a kill yields the exact same amount of money.
The amount of money you get for disecting a mech has nothing to do with this.
The buttom line is that a kill and an assist gives the same amount of money.

Edit - le typos 2 stronk

Edited by 0okami, 28 August 2013 - 03:23 AM.

[sarkun]

Sooo, it seems that I'm not the target demographic. Good to know. Wish you had told me before I've bought the founders package, but okay - I've had much fun anyway.

Really, I should have known sooner. The thinking man's shooter, the role warfare, the information warfare... concepts that never materialised or were getting weaker with each patch for the last year. Guess I'll have to wait another few years for a mechwarrior title.

It's also funny how the 3PV is a "great success" and a "giant communication failure" at the same time, depending what thread you read - seems like you have loooong way to go with your communication...

Edited by sarkun, 28 August 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[Kyrie]

I read about 17 pages worth of what I feel to be justified rage, and I realized that I have absolutely nothing to add to this discussion, save this:

the comic-picture of the guy chasing the CW carrot was awesome. :-)

Please carry on. :-)