109 replies to this topic

[Valore]

Has anyone pointed this out yet:

A very likely reason ELO isn't working, is because we just may not have enough players.

If they can't split the 3pv and 1pv queues because they don't have the numbers, what does that say about finding people the right rank to fight each other?

Its a double whammy. ELO is already rickety at the best of times. It not having the players it needs to find, that just pushes the whole shambles off a cliff.

[Deathlike]

Ah.. this thread. There are legitimate complaints... and so many qqs in the same breath. This is sad.

I am leaning a lot towards having a separate solo queue and/or a non-competitive queue. Not everyone is going to be in a team all of the time... and not everyone is going to "play together well" so to speak. I think a future/potential issue that will crop up is when we have team sizes between 4 and 11... pretty much any non-12 man queue setting (which may occur often). If teams of that size are allowed to play vs a team consisting of 2 or more solo PUGs, there will be massive needless whining. I like playing on teams... teams are fun and great. Right now it is hard to see its intended effect with 4-mans in 12v12s.. your impact is lessened significantly than in an 8v8. If anything, it's chaotic... and moreso when you are playing solo.

Having a solo queue is not preferable.. but given the state of this game, it's probably a "necessary evil". A "competitive queue" is more important IMO... at least if PGI were willing to do that AND increase the rewards (what's the point of a competitive queue if there's no incentive to go there), then maybe we'd have something.

Complaining about people who like to play together is silly... its the tools and options needs to be expanded and PGI is doing a below average job at making that happen... especially when we're missing voice macros.

[Almond Brown]

JohanssenJr, on 27 August 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

ELO is working as intended. You're just on an island.

And if just one "BannerBoy" actually said something relevant to any Post in here, everyone would immediately need a Tinfoil hat.

[FrDrake]

4 mans are often on both teams, they can't all be winning, or maybe they're all winning about half the time (unless one is superiorly skilled in which case it wins more, sadly that sounds kinda balanced). In any case stop whining, as soon as they make it so you can only duo queue, people will still complain that is too much. Play the game and have fun, or stop playing and stop bothering the rest of the world.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 27 August 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

4 mans shouldnt be allowed in the queue. At most it should allow groups of 2-3.

I gotta disagree Khobai. Teams is what this game is based on. As a PUG I should fill a gap in any teams on the map.

[I am]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 August 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

I gotta disagree Khobai. Teams is what this game is based on. As a PUG I should fill a gap in any teams on the map.

Remember when I told you that you were cancer for the longevity of this community, and everything you argue for is what perpetuates pub stomping/pushing new players away from MWO..

And you were like "I have no idea what you are talking about!?"

For some reason that just came to mind.

[Joseph Mallan]

I am, on 29 August 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Remember when I told you that you were cancer for the longevity of this community, and everything you argue for is what perpetuates pub stomping/pushing new players away from MWO..

And you were like "I have no idea what you are talking about!?"

For some reason that just came to mind.

Yet I have been PUGging only for that last 4 months! So what is your complaint about me again? So spare me trying to say I am PUG stomper.

[krash27]

Man reading comprehension is lacking in this thread. The OP didn't say get rid of the comms server, he said get rid of it if your not going to have an in game voip for everyone. Casuals want a fair game and competitive teams keep fighting for the right to roflstomp casuals/pugs as they think the devs planned casual gamers to be competitive team fodder. This is not true, the devs have said many times they will look into the pugstomping issue. It seems to me that a lot of competitive players feel self entitled, which is obvious as they make up {Scrap} as they go along

MeiSooHaityu, on 28 August 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

I wouldn't count on ever getting a solo only que.

Basically the Devs and the community want you to join a group and install 3rd party team speak software. If the developers and the community at large think you are playing the game wrong, they aren't going to accomadate you, they are going to try and push you the way THEY want you to play. Even the loading screen tips say...Get VOIP software...Join a group....

Heck, they even installed the controversial 3PV before helping out PUGs. If that doesn't send a clear message, I don't know what does.

There MIGHT be a chance that a solo que might EVENTUALLY happen, but it is small and not even close to a priority for the Devs IMO.

Not trying to sound bitter (even though I am a bit), just trying to say don't hold your breath.

This, as an example, is all guesses and assumptions. Show us where the devs say this is a competitive team only game? Show us where the devs say that playing casualy is playing it wrong? The only people who think casuals are playing the game wrong or competitive teams that feel they are self entitled. As a matter of fact, the only portion of the community that thinks this game is for competitive teams only are some of the competitive teams, which I would surmise are not even 50% of the population. This here is the problem, speculation. Please tell me how installing 3PV means that PGI see's casuals/pugs as fodder for competitive teams? Where are your facts? The facts are that this is beta, and it WILL be balanced for casuals and competitive teams. Nuff said, give it time people, its beta. (here come the derp derp its not beta if they are accepting money. That theory works for premium games, not F2P. Change with the times people, stop holding on to 1999 in this age of F2P games)

Edited by krash27, 29 August 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[Steel Claws]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 August 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Its whats going to prevent new people from sticking around. Its whats going to force solo people who have been playing a while from sticking around.

Your founders are NOT going to carry this game into the future! They are the vocal minority but not the future! (Yes founders thanks for getting this game going, but your "QQ because we want to lolerstomps on 3rd party comms in OP builds have got to go")


The elo as it is set up now is ridiculous! 1 Person can carry a team and everyone else on the team will get higher elo because of it. Then get put in brackets they have no business being put in.

3rd party voice needs to be banned and a MWO voice system needs to be put in place.. Or at the very least, give a voice chat option that connects everyone on a team with each other IN GAME!


J*C the list goes on and on. Stop trying to balance for the QQ founders and balance the game for the majority! If the founders are the majority, you need to think twice about how long this game is going to last and how great it can really be.

LOLERstomp after LOLERstomp.... being a solo player, winning lolerstomps IS JUST AS BORING AND FRUSTRATING AS LOOSING THEM!

Good luck with the retention in September.

For the record I drop solo more than I drop with other players and rarely do we have a full 4 man drop. Where do you think the people come from to fill those holes. Yes it is from the lone wolves. There also IS a built in voice program called C3. You have to install it and enable it in the options but it is there - I just don't think anyone uses it. Beyond that, PGI CANT stop people from using third person voice because that would be illegal. If they didnt code it, they can't disrupt it. Please get a grip on reality. Further I think you'd be surprised how many times you aren;'t running into premades. I would also point out that the effect of 4 premades is highly diluted in the 12 v 12 format. Even 4 good players often can't win a game if they are paired with 8 bad players.

That said:

What you ask can only be done as a seperate server set up exclusively for newer players. I have long said there should be a place where people who have less than X number of drops should be forced to go until they had learned enough and had customized mechs of their own to play. The question is "are there enough players to do that?" I really don't know. As it is I can see drop time waits of several minutes before getting matched up now - the player base isn't what it could or should be but that is another whole thread.

Edited by Steel Claws, 29 August 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[Skye Storm]

Or maybe we all just join groups...
or maybe you suck up and deal with it,
It will never happen and no amount of forum posting will change that.
Those that post on the forums are a minority and are worthless, (not my words)

[krash27]

Yes it will happen. Can't help but notice you made up the part where us forum posters are worthless. I do not recall reading anyone at PGI say that. Man so many cynical people that don't understand game development at all

[White Bear 84]

Dont create a single player drop, just drop bad players with bad players and good with good. None of this mixed bag rubbish.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Its not working because...


One or two people can carry a team of new players. Win the match and the new players will get a bump in the elo they do not qualify for. Then they get put in higher brackets they have no business being in.

That combined with no solo and team drop ques and lack of player base just makes this whole ELO thing a gaggle ***k!

[Lykaon]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 August 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Its whats going to prevent new people from sticking around. Its whats going to force solo people who have been playing a while from sticking around.

Your founders are NOT going to carry this game into the future! They are the vocal minority but not the future! (Yes founders thanks for getting this game going, but your "QQ because we want to lolerstomps on 3rd party comms in OP builds have got to go")


The elo as it is set up now is ridiculous! 1 Person can carry a team and everyone else on the team will get higher elo because of it. Then get put in brackets they have no business being put in.

3rd party voice needs to be banned and a MWO voice system needs to be put in place.. Or at the very least, give a voice chat option that connects everyone on a team with each other IN GAME!


J*C the list goes on and on. Stop trying to balance for the QQ founders and balance the game for the majority! If the founders are the majority, you need to think twice about how long this game is going to last and how great it can really be.

LOLERstomp after LOLERstomp.... being a solo player, winning lolerstomps IS JUST AS BORING AND FRUSTRATING AS LOOSING THEM!

Good luck with the retention in September.

Scapegoat much.

This is yet another tread ranting about premade boogiemen ruining everything always.

Here is the huge fault in your arguement.

If premades are responsable for every (or even most of) the losses solo players experience then these premades are everywhere always.

If they are everywhere always they must make up the majority of the player base.

So if the above is true (and it must be if what you claim is also true) then you are the vocal minority and premades are the majority.

How long do you think the game will be sustained by a QQ minority?

If you are losing game after game after game because of the huge volume of premade players then you may want to rethink your claims of belonging to a majority group thay somehow is entitled to more then other players.

Or how about simply realizing that without solid metrics nobody can claim anything about anyone and have a convincing arguement.

[Corwin Maxwell]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 August 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Its whats going to prevent new people from sticking around. Its whats going to force solo people who have been playing a while from sticking around.

Your founders are NOT going to carry this game into the future! They are the vocal minority but not the future! (Yes founders thanks for getting this game going, but your "QQ because we want to lolerstomps on 3rd party comms in OP builds have got to go")


The elo as it is set up now is ridiculous! 1 Person can carry a team and everyone else on the team will get higher elo because of it. Then get put in brackets they have no business being put in.

3rd party voice needs to be banned and a MWO voice system needs to be put in place.. Or at the very least, give a voice chat option that connects everyone on a team with each other IN GAME!


J*C the list goes on and on. Stop trying to balance for the QQ founders and balance the game for the majority! If the founders are the majority, you need to think twice about how long this game is going to last and how great it can really be.

LOLERstomp after LOLERstomp.... being a solo player, winning lolerstomps IS JUST AS BORING AND FRUSTRATING AS LOOSING THEM!

Good luck with the retention in September.

[LordVanquish]

I don't get it. Is there supposedly some hidden ELO system at work? Is it all random? I still haven't figured it out in the time I came back to the game.
More often than not, the games are all ROFL stomps one way or another.

From what I've been reading, there is in fact, an ELO system and at least in PUGs, they try to match weight up. Is it actually functional?[

I feel like either I have to carry every game I'm in, or else I lose, no matter what. I don't recall anytime doing badly and my team actually manages to win... pretty much ever.

Today especially it seems like I'm getting people from the short bus for my teammates every match. This even includes 4-mans who I happen to get matched with.

If ELO is working, then why do I get WTF matches like this one I just had, and many more similar ones?



As you can see, I got every single kill on my team.
I did 985 dmg (I ran out of ammo unfortunately, or else would have done more), the 11 other derpsters on my team did 1091 total.

Argh, out of 10 games today, 7 of them must have been similar to this one. Too frustrated to keep PUG-ing...

TL;DR: how is this ELO/MM system supposed to work, because I don't get it

[Khobai]

Quote

I gotta disagree Khobai. Teams is what this game is based on. As a PUG I should fill a gap in any teams on the map.

I completely agree. Teams are what the game is based on. But like I said earlier... Teams need to fight against other teams. And PUGs, as much as we want them to be, are NOT Teams.

If you want PUGs to be a team you need to give them all the same advantages 4-mans have.

1) integrated voice coms/hotkey macros
2) knowledge of the other players loadouts/capabilities as players
3) some kind of incentive to get PUGs to actually listen to commander orders

Until all three of those are in the game, PUGs are not Teams, and 4-mans should not drop vs Pugs.

Edited by Khobai, 29 August 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Elo works best when it's matching solo players. Once groups are thrown into the mix, that's when things get weird.

And then there's the issue of no in-game VOIP for PUGs that makes the discrepancies even worse when groups and solos mix.

[Fabe]

I remember when they split the full 8 man groups into their own que . The pug stompers couldn't handle playing against real teams and started sync dropping so they could get back to rolling over pugs while bragging about their "leet skills". meanwhile the population of real 8 man teams got to small so they had to start sync dropping just to find matches.

[Riptor]

Yeah... because VOIP makes you a better player imidiantly.

Does anyone really believe that VOIP will stop anyone from being a leeroy jenkins?

All VOIP will be used for is insulting your own teammates about how n00bish they are for not backing you up when you solo stormed over the ridge in ice city.

No thanks.

Just keep solo lonewolfs from having to deal with multiple 4 mans.. give the 4 mans their own que and be done with it. But aparantly any seperation of the groups is impossible because... well i dont know why.. after all pgi claims that the player count is steadily rising.. so it should be no problem... right?

Right? Oo