45 replies to this topic

[ColonelMetus]

howdy partner, i currently own 36 mechs and soon 12 more from phoenix.

i used to play maybe 5 hours a day on my days off and around 3-4 on work days.


now im averaging less than an hour per week.

why?

incentive.

sometimes i have an amazing match where i clear 1k damage done with 6-9 kills then i look at the score screen and see 140k and i litterally exit out the game and play starcraft instead.

i feel like i am not accomplishing anything when i play the game now, like there is no persistence, as if every session is unique with nothing to show for it at the end.

now before the C-bill nerf when i dropped alot of money into a mech i ended up not liking my attitude was "so what, i'll just buy another mech" but now sense the nerf i bought an AS7-K atlas that ended up costing just over 22 million and i regret it every second im playing the game because there is no way to get C-bills anymore.

Number of Chasis i am currently MASTER in (extra module unlocked)
Commando
Cicada
Hunchback
Trebuchet
Cataphract
Awesome
Highlander
Atlas

now i have alot of chasis that i own 2 variants of that i cant get the 3rd for because C-bills take TOO long.

there is a difference between something taking along time, and TOO long, when something is TOO long it means it is detrimental too the experience.

case in point i only have 2 real life friends that play this game with me and they both quit because of the grind, now i am alone, and i do well in matches but my bank account doesnt go up.

in the mean time its back to starcraft with me till this game gets fixed.

P.S. can i please have my 80 dollars back? the overlord package no longer has any appeal as there is no way to get C-bills to buy double heatsinks/Endo/XL engines etc for those 12 mechs

[AnnoyingCat]

meh, more like personal opinions

[Wintersdark]

ColonelMetus, on 27 August 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

P.S. can i please have my 80 dollars back? the overlord package no longer has any appeal as there is no way to get C-bills to buy double heatsinks/Endo/XL engines etc for those 12 mechs

Well, your DHS and ES will cost you roughly 20m for the Phoenix mechs. An average player (I assume you're above that, given your experience) earns over 500,000/hr without premium time or hero mechs. I average around 700,000/hr, personally.

But lets say you're perfectly average. That's 40 hours of play to outfit those mechs. You've got a month an a half to go, one hour per day will outfit all 12 mechs with money to spare.

Pick of Premium time, and it's much, much less - and you'll have premium time when you get your Overlord pack, so even if you don't save up some 's before hand, you'll be able to earn the money rapidly while levelling the mechs.

This seems reasonable to me. You're looking at an hour or two per mech, which doesn't seem too outrageous at all.

[Syllogy]

Quote

Economics

As for the economics, we’ve heard some talk about the reduction in C-Bill rewards. As previous replies to the community in the latest ATD have stated, we needed to rein in some of the rewards a bit as they had grown beyond our original thresholds by about 16%. This is normal and common as a game evolves and players become more efficient. The addition of 12v12 also required a tuning pass to lower the earning by around 13% to account for an additional 8 players on the battlefield. The future vision for CB and XP rewards includes a more granular, role based approach currently in design and development. These expanded earnings will reward players directly for performing specific roles, allowing them to distinguish themselves.

Some economic math from our telemetry data:


Average match time is 8.4 minutes.
Average CB/match is 79,069Posted Image.
Average CB/hour is 564,778Posted Image if you only have 1 BattleMech to use.
New players can earn 7,981,686Posted Image in cadet bonuses during their first 3.5 hours in addition to between 1-3 million Posted Image in regular game earnings.


It’s important to note that new or inexperienced players will be below this average, while experienced or veteran players will be above this. Player’s with premium time and/or a Hero Mech can expect to better still. New players can earn enough money to buy several light or medium Mechs with just their cadet bonus, or can opt to buy 1 or 2 heavies, or 1 assault. In fact a new player can buy their very first Mech within just a handful of matches, begin upgrading and acquiring new permanent equipment for future Mechs.

If players so wish, they can even increase C-Bill earnings substantially by exiting matches if they are destroyed early, and jumping into a new one.

For example:

If your Mech is destroyed to a roaming band of Jenners early on, you can jump out of that match and into a new one right away – potentially doubling your C-Bills to 1.2 million per hour! This cuts down your time to purchase new Mechs and equipment.

Like game balance, we are constantly evaluating the economic environment and will continue to make small tweaks to keep the economics balanced.

How about we just wait and see what happens, mmkay?

[ColonelMetus]

Syllogy, on 28 August 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

How about we just wait and see what happens, mmkay?

how about i do a bunch of {Rage} and forum rage

ColonelMetus, on 28 August 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

how about i do a bunch of {Rage} and forum rage

i said {Rage} not rage

[Takony]

Waiting resulted in PGI yet again totally disregarding any feedback on cbill nerf, and trying to force-feed us early 21st century Korean MMORPG style soul-killing grindfest. Thanks but no thanks.

[ColonelMetus]

see bro, everyone agree on me

[IC Rafe]

AnnoyingCat, on 28 August 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

meh, more like personal opinions

ofcource that's his personal opinion, but a lot of people do agree with it, and they are losing future customers. All the bad press the game is getting sofar isn't helping either.

[Team Leader]

Takony, on 28 August 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Waiting resulted in PGI yet again totally disregarding any feedback on cbill nerf, and trying to force-feed us early 21st century Korean MMORPG style soul-killing grindfest. Thanks but no thanks.

hoorayyyyyy.


Buff the stupid cbills PGI nobody wants to play

[Julian Tifflor]

kinda funny how people earn that much in just 1h and call it fine.

i often try to play around with my loadout and try several settings and never had much money to play with. so if something fails after trying it for one night i am stuck with like 35-50k for a loss or close to 70-100k if i win.
playing around with the mech, chatting with the only rl friend on skype who plays this game with me we sorta do like 4 matchs an hour...and we sure dont win all the time, sometimes not even half of it even if he plays for a long time now (founder) and me joining much later (non founder). his income is often double with premium and hero mech since we compare our earnings after each match and he often laughs when he hears my earnings. though i dont take offense in that^^

but...1h and earning sometimes only 120k...average like 180k or if i win 4 times 400k.

after around 800 matchs i played...i still only own 5 mechs. bought only 2 XL engines...always had to buy DHS, Artemis, sometimes Endo or Ferro, i dont seem to get anywhere to really enjoy the game. buying 3 variants? lol no way...i am stuck with basic skills even with my atlas ddc at like 33k xp (after the stats started to work) without being able to master it...or at least add elite skills for even 10x their cost. why cant i buy elite skills at least with like 10x the cost? why oh why???

i dont like the actual cb earn rate...i dont like ghost heat that isnt explained to new players at all...(3 friends tried MWO and none stayed...even with us explaining it and told them the game gets fun after you get used to it)

give them money so the game succeeds? sure...when its no longer beta, most bugs fixed and things that were promised long ago included...and things that were promised not to be included gone again.

and who are you kidding? one hero mech for near the price of a full game? well not with me...but i know some dont mind hoping to support the game and make it succeed.

for myself i dont like the direction pgi is heading with it...and not how money greedy they appear to me while not keeping their promises at all, not communicating with the community in a proper way.

i have seen enough games doing this...and fail or at least lose a big part of their playerbase to be trusting easily anymore, so i keep the money in my pocket until i am convinced otherwise.

we are your customers...we pay your check in the future...treat us miserable...dont get paid.. easy as this.
and keeping a game in beta state...but already taking money is something that spread like a plague in the last years. i dont support this, cause in my job i was paid after i delivered...not when i was working on something and wasnt done at all.

last thing...i am sure my post wont solve anything nor will it get any attention besides players who do agree or disagree. its as watching politicians talk...you never see any result in the end.

Edited by Julian Tifflor, 01 September 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Sprouticus]

Back last Winter Bryan stated (on Twitter I think) that they want us to make 400-500k/hr.

When they reduced the rewards, I (like many) noticed it and was upset.


But then I tracked how much I am making per hour, and I realized that I am making more than that 500khr easily. Mind you I have premium, but still. I am closer to 700k/hr if I play with friends and 600k-ish if I play solo.

If I die early and mech hop, it is actually higher than that.


I still personally think the reward level should be higher, but it IS in the range they want it to be in.


side note: If you are one of those people who is complaining that PGI is changing their minds all the time, you should absolutely be accepting of the reduction in earnings. They have been VERY consistent on what they want the earnings to be and have adjusted it to be at that level.

[LauLiao]

VERY disappointed in this thread. Saw "Proof" in the title but all I got was vague opinion backed by anecdote.

Edited by LauLiao, 01 September 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[ColonelMetus]

LauLiao, on 01 September 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

VERY disappointed in this thread. Saw "Proof" in the title but all I got was vague opinion backed by anecdote.

i have spent more money on this game then any other player, which means my opinion is law, infact i dont even have opinions, i have FACTS

[Dan Nashe]

Personally I think the problem is that they have to balance around the players who are good, who solo drop, chain mech switch, run premium time in hero mechs, and play 20+ hours a week. And already have mastered at least 8 mechs, so they can have lots of variety.

That is unfortunately not most players and is the absolute opposite of new players.

I think the cadet bonus needs to be bigger.

And a bonus 100k per win for your first 10 wins per week would go a long way to balancing the earnings across player types.
An extra 1 million a week is on average one bonus outfitted mech every 10 weeks.
If you keep a player for 10 whole weeks, and plays 20 games a week, that's a win, even if you have maaybe shortened the maximum lifespan of the game for that player by 20 hours over the next 2-3 years. And it's not like there's a shortage of mechs . . .

Just getting me to log in and play 10 games a week would help. Because once I log in, I'm more likely to stay around.

P.S. Dailies are a horrible idea. Weeklies are better! Log in, win one, log off is a chore. Log in when I know I have 2 hours, play and get addicted on a Sunday afternoon, that's better!

Edited by DanNashe, 02 September 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[Uncleclint]

A large part of the fun of Battletech games has always been (and will always be) tweaking/refitting/tuning/pimping a mech in the mechlab. I still like to do that, BUT since the c-bill nerf a lot has changed. I completely stopped refitting mechs that i´ve already mastered, after wasting 1 mill. on an old atlas that was meant to be a fun build but turned out to be a waste of time. So, no more fun builds, no more fun time in mechlab and a lot less funnier games cause the fun almost always ends on the rewards page.


My biggest problem with the earnings is that there seems to be no logic behind it. I´ve had several games now with 6 kills and >1k dmg and got like 120k from it and i´ve had games with 1 kill some assists and ~500dmg and got the same amount of c-bills.

It all seems to depend upon how many saviour kills you´ve made and it is totally random how many you will get. OK it is not totally random, the more u shoot and hit (enemies) the better your chances... but still, sometimes you shoot a lot and get a big fat nothing.

I´d like to propose going back to the old reward system just without this random factor of saviour kills - what is that anyways? A "thank you for not killstealing" reward or what?

Anyways, current c-bill rewards are way too low and like OP said this takes a huge part of the fun factor far away from the game that we all liked to play.

[Grym]

I just recently returned two days ago. I was sitting on a bunch of cash so i really havent payed attention to the amount i was being paid.

I bought a Highlander...started paying attention to how much money i was making.

Its obvious that they want more hero mech/premium time sales.

[Bobdolemite]

While I am disappointed at not finding "proof" (possibly screenshots and some detailed analysis) I have to agree with the OP. I used to play 2-5 hours every day, now I frequent less than that a week, the reason being im not interested in running what feels like 100 "good" matches to get anywhere.

Was working toward mastering all mechs and moving nicely having unfinished only: Kintaro, Hunchback, Dragon, Awesome. I am 3/4 done mastering my hunchback now and have basically shelved the idea. I hadnt really noticed the issue before due to Premium time from overlord, but now that the EB time has runout I am definitely feeling it.

An example was a match where I had 6 kills and 705 damage, lots of component destruction and assists as well. Walked away with 150k and less than 1k exp. Once I realized the amount of time I would need to invest (over and above what I already have) I started looking for a new primary game.

Some of the coolest factors of mechwarrior were salvage, contract bonus's, objective / mission bonus. While things like salvage were always missing in this game I always used to feel like a good match got me somewhere. nowadays im thinking in hours not matches and that doesnt incentive me to play this game.

It may have taken me 20+ hours on real in game time to get my first atlas and outfit it properly, but this should not continue to be true as you get better and better at the game. Now the curve feels flat and im earning noob cash again.

IMO this was more about selling more premium time than it was balancing the reward system do to 12 man. The funniest part about all this is that there didnt need to be any balancing in the first place. Yes there were 4 more mechs on the field to shoot at, but also 4 more players on your team to split damage/kills/assists with! You may have a good match or two and earn a nice boon using the old system in 12 man but I am highly doubtful that it was as "rediculous" as russ said it was.

Honestly my cash commitment to this game is tapped already between packages, mechbays, colors, hero mechs, consumables, and exp conversion sales. The decision to make a change like this feels greedy and money grubbing. They need to do some thinking about the value of peoples time and the euphoric feeling players get when they are rewarded appropriately. As it stands at the end of every match I feel "Meh....." and then fire up Planetside 2.

Edited by Bobdolemite, 02 September 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[ColonelMetus]

Bobdolemite, on 02 September 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

While I am disappointed at not finding "proof" (possibly screenshots and some detailed analysis) I have to agree with the OP. I used to play 2-5 hours every day, now I frequent less than that a week, the reason being im not interested in running what feels like 100 "good" matches to get anywhere.

Was working toward mastering all mechs and moving nicely having unfinished only: Kintaro, Hunchback, Dragon, Awesome. I am 3/4 done mastering my hunchback now and have basically shelved the idea. I hadnt really noticed the issue before due to Premium time from overlord, but now that the EB time has runout I am definitely feeling it.

An example was a match where I had 6 kills and 705 damage, lots of component destruction and assists as well. Walked away with 150k and less than 1k exp. Once I realized the amount of time I would need to invest (over and above what I already have) I started looking for a new primary game.

Some of the coolest factors of mechwarrior were salvage, contract bonus's, objective / mission bonus. While things like salvage were always missing in this game I always used to feel like a good match got me somewhere. nowadays im thinking in hours not matches and that doesnt incentive me to play this game.

It may have taken me 20+ hours on real in game time to get my first atlas and outfit it properly, but this should not continue to be true as you get better and better at the game. Now the curve feels flat and im earning noob cash again.

IMO this was more about selling more premium time than it was balancing the reward system do to 12 man. The funniest part about all this is that there didnt need to be any balancing in the first place. Yes there were 4 more mechs on the field to shoot at, but also 4 more players on your team to split damage/kills/assists with! You may have a good match or two and earn a nice boon using the old system in 12 man but I am highly doubtful that it was as "rediculous" as russ said it was.

Honestly my cash commitment to this game is tapped already between packages, mechbays, colors, hero mechs, consumables, and exp conversion sales. The decision to make a change like this feels greedy and money grubbing. They need to do some thinking about the value of peoples time and the euphoric feeling players get when they are rewarded appropriately. As it stands at the end of every match I feel "Meh....." and then fire up Planetside 2.

this person said the truth. back to planetside i have gone as well!

[Volthorne]

ColonelMetus, on 02 September 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

i have spent more money on this game then any other player, which means my opinion is law, infact i dont even have opinions, i have FACTS

Really. And exactly how much is "more than any other player"? Someone who has purchased both Legendary Founders and Overlord Pheonix (with Saber add-on) has already dropped $230. More if they feel they need more MC for whatever reason. I highly doubt you could have spent more than $230 already, considering A] you don't have Founders, and B] your account is 'recent' as far as accounts go (assuming $10 per month after the first month - global average for F2P games - that's a minimum of $90).

Oh, and spending a lot does not instantly make your OPINION into "fact".

Edited by Volthorne, 02 September 2013 - 11:54 PM.

[ColonelMetus]

Volthorne, on 02 September 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

Really. And exactly how much is "more than any other player"? Someone who has purchased both Legendary Founders and Overlord Pheonix (with Saber add-on) has already dropped $230. More if they feel they need more MC for whatever reason. I highly doubt you could have spent more than $230 already, considering A] you don't have Founders, and B] your account is 'recent' as far as accounts go (assuming $10 per month after the first month - global average for F2P games - that's a minimum of $90).

Oh, and spending a lot does not instantly make your OPINION into "fact".

lol troll ive already spent almost 400$ and recent account? lol im 11 months deep fool, go back to your bridge you poor troll (prolly doesnt have a job irl)