45 replies to this topic

[Snowcrow]

I agree. The earnings are too low. It's painful now.
I can't imagine how horrible it must be for new players.

[Takony]

Bobdolemite, on 02 September 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

The decision to make a change like this feels greedy and money grubbing. They need to do some thinking about the value of peoples time and the euphoric feeling players get when they are rewarded appropriately. As it stands at the end of every match I feel "Meh....." and then fire up Planetside 2.

Nailed it.

Only difference: War Thunder ("Hey, you have downloaded our game? Here's 240 Golden Eagles [equivalent of MC] and a premium aircraft [Hero Mech lite] in your starting country! Hey new player, you actually logged in every day for one week? Heres 50k Silver Lions [=cbills, this amount buys you quite a few low-tier planes]").

Even though I can see grinding rearing it's ugly head in the distance [repairs on higher tier planes, albeit the rewards are better too], there's always some saving grace (Battle Tophy, other random/some stage reached rewards) that makes you feel, "Oh, these guys love me, they want me to keep playing".

If, in spite of being a terrible noob, I manage to get some kills and assists, and win, to boot, the rewards are good enough that I click repair without looking at the cost, and start thinking on unlocking more planes. If I lose, R&R still does not push me into the red.

MWO on the other hand: "Thank you for purchasing MC, and spending it on 1 month premium. Let us completely devalue your purchase by nerfing Cbills by 30-60% without any prior warning. By the way WE think it is only a 16% cut. Please have fun acquiring ridiculously low amounts of ingame currency, even if you played well. Oh did we mention that you will lose 10-15 FPS as well with the introduction of 12v12? [Well at least that was hotfixed, kudoz for that.]"

And [while I know I'm not fair here, since the game engines and the requirements for drawing small dots and giant mechs are totally different] WT runs super smooth [35-50 FPS] on my old I7-740QM+ Mobility HD5870 on med to high detail compared to MWO's 25 FPS on all lowest. Yeah, I know, gotta buy a real contemporary PC, and I already figured out the time frame and started to save the budget for that [Q2 '14, 800-950$], but the only reason for me to get a gaming PC would be and enjoyable MWO, which is... not where we are at, currently.

Hell, I play more even on my Note II, than MWO... :S

Will I be spending $$ on War Thunder? No because I want to spend it on MWO. Should I? At the moment: no f*****ng way!

Meh, PGI, show me some real progress until the end of 2013 so I can play mah mechs and _enjoy_ it, so I can throw you more $$ please. More mechs [that I can't buy with cbills since I get no cbills] with no metagame is not "more content". And please, no more Terra Therma torture chambers.

[HeavyRain]

Don't worry, mid October we should see a significant reduction to the grind, after they realise that the average new player spends about 8 minutes in this game when the cadet bonus runs out and he finds out what's really going on.

[Cadodd]

Stated by their own calculations and statistics (some days ago) with around 450k CBills on average per hour you WILL need at least 10h, on most other mechs +20h to unlock the chassis and the absolutly necessary equipment (DHS,engine,structure). Thats arund 10-20h of playtime without any progression! hell what are these guys up to?
In WarThunder I have played around 45h so far and already unlocked ~26 planes (in one tree, didnt count the other nations were I am still low in level).
I am absolutly confused how they want to compete on release with such a grindy game.

[ColonelMetus]

everyone agrees with me because im right

[Julian Tifflor]

Yesterday we played 3h...all i got in the end was 900k. Some games i win i end up around 100k...bit less or more depending on the savior kills, salvage etc. but conquest sure feels unrewarding. Then there were times where no one went to cap anymore...i found myself often alone going with a sniper mech to cap a point...then got surrounded by enemy mechs and boom...often with 30-35k cbills per game if we lost.

i am not playing often as some cracks but i am not new and everyone gets shot sometimes pretty early in the game. if you play with a friend you sure have to wait till he dies or the game ends to get the rewards...so its like sitting 10-15min around...and get 30k credits...oh fun isnt it?

and often...you kill 2-3 mechs and decent dmg...with a loss 40-60k and with a win still 100k...but depending on your salvage, assists you often earn more just "tagging" the enemies which i find an awefull method on deciding the earnings. so many rather tag mechs than try destroying them and end up with a better reward while the ones going in...killing a few and die get less.

sure its a risk to bet on the mechs will be killed that you tagged and often cause of the tagging and no one focussing down a mech you often end up on the loser side.

the reward system of this game needs a major change...and we already had some nice ideas floating around...but what do i think...pgi and listen? no way.

dont make the game fun for new players...dont explain hidden mechanics...we want more players but we sure dont want to do anything than telling this game is all fun and rewarding.

dont get me wrong i like the game...maybe not all the broken promises or the heading and for sure not the low rewards for playing...but i like the universe and the gameplay.

sadly with low rewards this game often feels stale and sure not keeping anyone trying it out for long...like 5 friends tried...0 did stay. most complains were how to stear...and...ofc...wth is this grindfest?

wait the mech i bought isnt good enough? oh i need DHS...ehm XL engine too? Artemis? Ferro/Endo?...
wait thats double the amount of the mech i just bought wtf? thats how it often went hehe...and none felt like wasting weeks on it...

we arent that young and dont have that much time on our hands...we want to play 1-3h once a week or 2-3 times. some have jobs...some family and they sure need time too. oh wait i can buy everything with MC...why didnt you say so! now i bought all...where is the feeling of achievement? wait there is none besides now i own all mechs...great.

Edited by Julian Tifflor, 04 September 2013 - 02:54 AM.

[ShockATC]

i dont know what everyones problem is.
the Cbill earnings are just right. actually, i earn more then before.

Maybe you should stop going Rambo and pretend that you are the "uberr0xx0r" and start playing as a team.

12 Kill Assists in Assault mode are worth 78.000 CBills... just the Kill Assists! You can add some more money on that if you play the game teambased - even in PUG.
Just take the Basics of a win-match (best case here): Win Money, Damage Money, Kill Assist Money, Salvage Bonus... way above 100.000 CBills.
i really dont get where your problem is...

[Julian Tifflor]

You dont get it do you? do you believe in PUGs people always work together? follow command? be a team?

get real...this might happen once in a while...btw if you go and play capping instead of assault you might see how the difference is in earning CBs compared to Assault...its much much much easier in assault! so go and play some matchs there and then come back and tell me what your impressions are.

an geee...do you think any new player just trying this game out feels like you do? knows everything?

first impressions are the most important thing a MMO has...it decides who stays and who leaves. right now this game is far from being newbie friendly.

we all have different experiences...skill levels...and we all feel different. if its fine to you then nice...but it looks like it isnt fine for some so telling them all is fine for me sure doesnt help them in any way.

[Claive]

I invited a new friend to play MWO who loves big stompy mechs for big stompy mechs sake.  I warned him that the cadet bonus would wear off (he had no idea it was going on or would go away)... I talked him through the controls and weapon group selection mess.... I helped him pick a starting mech.... We played for about 6 hours... he saw how long it would take after the cadet bonus to buy another mech... he saw the grind ahead... he uninstalled the game... and he loved the combat...

I hate to see how far new players would get without the 6 hours of help and encouragement I gave my friend.

It is all the proof I need.

Edited by Claive, 04 September 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[IC Rafe]

ShockATC, on 04 September 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

i dont know what everyones problem is.
the Cbill earnings are just right. actually, i earn more then before.

Maybe you should stop going Rambo and pretend that you are the "uberr0xx0r" and start playing as a team.

12 Kill Assists in Assault mode are worth 78.000 CBills... just the Kill Assists! You can add some more money on that if you play the game teambased - even in PUG.
Just take the Basics of a win-match (best case here): Win Money, Damage Money, Kill Assist Money, Salvage Bonus... way above 100.000 CBills.
i really dont get where your problem is...

Yes, 12 kill assists are worth a lot, but all most people do is tag a mech and hope the rest of the team finishes them off. Often ending with a lot of mechs tagged, but very few actually dying, and nothing done to help your team win. Damage money also only helps those who pilot heavy/assault mechs. As a light/medium which does less damage (you have less weapons), you are lucky if you break 100k.

Also: games last longer. so the incomereduction is lowered even more, as has been calculated by others before me. If you say you earn more than before the nerf: you either became a lot better, or you are purely lying.

[WarHippy]

ShockATC, on 04 September 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

i dont know what everyones problem is.
the Cbill earnings are just right. actually, i earn more then before.

Maybe you should stop going Rambo and pretend that you are the "uberr0xx0r" and start playing as a team.

12 Kill Assists in Assault mode are worth 78.000 CBills... just the Kill Assists! You can add some more money on that if you play the game teambased - even in PUG.
Just take the Basics of a win-match (best case here): Win Money, Damage Money, Kill Assist Money, Salvage Bonus... way above 100.000 CBills.
i really dont get where your problem is...

As stated by the Devs the average earnings per match is 79k, and while you might be earning more now it is because you are gaming the system and tagging mechs while your team works at actually completing the map objectives. The grind is far too much now and will only be made worse when Clan mechs are added and you have to grind nearly 50 hours for one stock Dire Wolf.

[Volthorne]

ColonelMetus, on 03 September 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

lol troll ive already spent almost 400$ and recent account? lol im 11 months deep fool, go back to your bridge you poor troll (prolly doesnt have a job irl)

$400? If only there were some way to verify your statement. Such a shame that I only have your word to go on, which isn't worth **** because internet.

Also, having your account be 11 months old would require it to have been made in October, not December. Perhaps leaving school wasn't such a good idea if you can't even count to 12.

[Vestulance]

Guys, its not the point of how much you spent on game ....its the point of getting newer players or brand new players. Look ,New Players come in with {Scrap} mech's Just to even try the game and see if they even like it. What do they face most times on average in most matches ?, Leeted out mech's 4 out of 10 at min. The C bill Nerf should be imposed on peeps who been here a long time as opposed to the guy who only has 2 or 3 owned mech's. Not the hero or champ mech's either, mech's got the hard way. Game needs something for brand new guys to even be competitive. Not for being easy kills for leeted out mech heads with in game ego's

[TheNose]

ColonelMetus, on 03 September 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

lol troll ive already spent almost 400$ and recent account? lol im 11 months deep fool, go back to your bridge you poor troll (prolly doesnt have a job irl)

Nothing better than people with arguments.

[Brockobi Samsobi]

I play a fair share of games but I have work and I have a family so I can't dedicate day after day to just playing this game to earn the cbills.  I really enjoy the series and the beta has been cool to crack out on my days off but this grinding thing goes above and beyond my tolerance.  I also can't justify paying $30 for 1-3 mechs and by the way you require at least 3 variants of the same model to get to elite and then master.  I can already see the trend, spend $15-30 every time a new mech comes and then play for like a month just to earn the other two variants and then get to mastery just to get the module.  

No matter how much you nerf earnings in any game, it is not going to stop some players from findings ways to get a head ridiculously quicker than everyone else.  I understand the business plan for this model of game gets it's revenue from the mechs and applying premium time to get in-game money, I get it.  But this is too tedious and I hesitate to put any real money down for a piece of a game in its current state and without a clearly communicated plan of what the content goals will be.

Edited by Brockobi Samsobi, 05 September 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Fut]

Wintersdark, on 28 August 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

You're looking at an hour or two per mech, which doesn't seem too outrageous at all.

Not outrageous at all actually. It should be time consuming, and difficult for people to buy more Mechs. It's not as if they just give these things out like candy in the Lore.

The most outrageous thing for me is **** like this:

ColonelMetus, on 27 August 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

howdy partner, i currently own 36 mechs and soon 12 more from phoenix.

That's completely unnecessary.

[Tigerwolf]

Why do people find making money in this game hard? Stop watching how much you make a match and see how much you made in a session or a week, it will surprise you (shoot, learn the Theory of Realitivity; watching things closely makes them move slower is part of it). Also, who said everything in a game has to be easy/given/casual to you? I played Everquest from its launch and it took me 9 months of casual playing to get to level 20 when the max was 50 and then the grind got really bad. To me, if a game is too easy, then I will get bored and leave so PGI will lose customers if they cater to casual or hardcore gamers. Still, ask yourself this, who is willing to spend more money on a game they like? Oh, and I am not a hardcore player, just someone who likes the feeling of accomplishment.

[ColonelMetus]

Fut, on 05 September 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Not outrageous at all actually. It should be time consuming, and difficult for people to buy more Mechs. It's not as if they just give these things out like candy in the Lore.

The most outrageous thing for me is **** like this:

howdy partner, i currently own 36 mechs and soon 12 more from phoenix.

That's completely unnecessary.

i shall own every mech in the game one day

[WarHippy]

Tigerwolf, on 05 September 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Why do people find making money in this game hard? Stop watching how much you make a match and see how much you made in a session or a week, it will surprise you (shoot, learn the Theory of Realitivity; watching things closely makes them move slower is part of it). Also, who said everything in a game has to be easy/given/casual to you? I played Everquest from its launch and it took me 9 months of casual playing to get to level 20 when the max was 50 and then the grind got really bad. To me, if a game is too easy, then I will get bored and leave so PGI will lose customers if they cater to casual or hardcore gamers. Still, ask yourself this, who is willing to spend more money on a game they like? Oh, and I am not a hardcore player, just someone who likes the feeling of accomplishment.

The problem with this is that the feeling of accomplishment isn't worth it if it is too tedious. Now, what level of tediousness becomes too much is different from person to person, but right now a lot of people have been pushed over the line from fun time consuming game over to tedious grind that feels more like a second job.

[IC Rafe]

Tigerwolf, on 05 September 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Why do people find making money in this game hard? Stop watching how much you make a match and see how much you made in a session or a week, it will surprise you (shoot, learn the Theory of Realitivity; watching things closely makes them move slower is part of it). Also, who said everything in a game has to be easy/given/casual to you? I played Everquest from its launch and it took me 9 months of casual playing to get to level 20 when the max was 50 and then the grind got really bad. To me, if a game is too easy, then I will get bored and leave so PGI will lose customers if they cater to casual or hardcore gamers. Still, ask yourself this, who is willing to spend more money on a game they like? Oh, and I am not a hardcore player, just someone who likes the feeling of accomplishment.

Imo a grind does not make a game harder. A hard game depends on the opponents and the teamwork you face. Having to grind a lot isn't hard, it just takes a lot of time, and for a lot of people with jobs, kids, family, friends, they dont have the time to spend grinding, and can't justify spending 30 euro on a mech. Those people just leave. PGI will lose more possible customers by catering to the "hardcore korean grinder timesink" demographic than catering to the more casual gamers. This has been proven in a lot of games already.