904 replies to this topic

[CyBerkut]

Caviel, on 28 August 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

I'm sure at this time they have no plans to do more than just no 3PV in 12 pilot group drops.

Then give them incentive them to change their plans.

Quote

This is why I suggest anyone that is opposed to 3PV and 1PV together, drop in 12 pilot groups exclusively if/when this goes live so PGI can get a feel for how many people are that opposed to 3PV that they will go out of their way to avoid it.

They will take people not spending money, and not playing the game more seriously. They can rationalize people in the 12 vs 12 pre-made queue away as "See, we've solved the problem! They are still with us. We can still sell them more product. We can point to them as a positive statistic. We've got them so hooked on the game that they can't bear to leave it."

[Dapper_]

Wolfways, on 28 August 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Of course you play worse in 3pv, it's terrible (for now).
The issue (for me at least) is that it can be used to look over terrain to essentially scout the enemy without any risk to the user, it breaks immersion, and the founders who put in money on the promise that the game would be 1pv only have been lied to over and over.

We know that games change during development, but you still expect core gameplay to stay unchanged especially when the company states, in capitals and underlined that 1pv players will NEVER have to use or play against 3pv players.


Btw, to everyone who has voted, thanks for screwing over your fellow players.

My assumption is that those of us hardcore players, myself included, are not giving them enough revenue and they need to appeal to more people. Sure we've been lied to (well I have since I'm a founder) but this isn't game breaking nor does it change the core gameplay. The only advantage of 3pv is in fact scouting yes BUT all the other disadvantages go to show that it's truly not a big deal. In fact most of the good players say to never use 3pv, not even to scout, because of all the disadvantages.

[Monky]

Roji, on 28 August 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

My assumption is that those of us hardcore players, myself included, are not giving them enough revenue and they need to appeal to more people. Sure we've been lied to (well I have since I'm a founder) but this isn't game breaking nor does it change the core gameplay. The only advantage of 3pv is in fact scouting yes BUT all the other disadvantages go to show that it's truly not a big deal. In fact most of the good players say to never use 3pv, not even to scout, because of all the disadvantages.

What you're saying here isn't true. Good players acknowledge the utility of any tool given to them, 3PV included, when it is used properly for an advantage.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

Bryan Ekman, on 28 August 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Proposal: Limit 12 v 12 pre-made group matches to 1PV only.
Release Date: Mid to Late September

Details: 12 man pre-made group matches will have 1PV enforced as the only useable view mode. Players will not be able to switch between 1PV and 3PV when playing in 12 v 12 pre-made match play.

This gives our core audience, who represent almost exclusively the 12 man team group play, a place to enjoy a pure 1PV experience.

The public queues will remain a mix of 1PV and 3PV modes and Hardcore mode will be removed from the drop down list. Future enhancements to the matchmaker will allow stricter tonnage limits, and encourage a more fair and level playing field for all MWO matches.

Bryan I will love you forever if the 12 vs 12 is only 1pv. Don't know about the wife !. CW topics have been floating around to other merc grousp and we all feel 1pv is a must for CW.

Edited by Xenois Shalashaska, 28 August 2013 - 07:17 PM.

[Franchi]

Roji, on 28 August 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

My assumption is that those of us hardcore players, myself included, are not giving them enough revenue and they need to appeal to more people. Sure we've been lied to (well I have since I'm a founder) but this isn't game breaking nor does it change the core gameplay. The only advantage of 3pv is in fact scouting yes BUT all the other disadvantages go to show that it's truly not a big deal. In fact most of the good players say to never use 3pv, not even to scout, because of all the disadvantages.

It takes all of .2 seconds to get back into 1PV after you scout over a ridge in 3PV, you can also just stay in 3rd person line up your shot then move into view, fire, drop back down, since the enemy couldn't see you UNTIL you crested and fired on the target you had already lined up, it can be abused with no downside by any competent player with no downside. As it was in MW4, as we predicted it would be abused in MWO, long before it was even announced by the dev team.

Edited by Franchi, 28 August 2013 - 06:53 PM.

[von Pilsner]

They said it so many times and so strongly that I had no reason to doubt them, now I have no reason to trust them...

Devs can we please just have a 1pv queue for the game, not just for 12v12? You said that 3pv added lots of players and that you think the player retention is better...

[Icedman]

Terrible poll, since it's two sides of the same coin and IGNORES the key implementation that 1. we wanted and 2. we were promised: SEPARATE QUEUES.

http://mwomercs.com/...oll-not-biased/

That is the poll that should have been here.

[Alois Hammer]

Wow. Just...wow.

No reason here to reinstall. I like my pugging, but apparently the best "compromise" we're getting offered is the rabid 12-man teams can get the "won't be forced to play with people using 3PV" that everyone was promised.

Nope. I've seen what this company's word is worth.

So long, and thanks for all the fish. Enjoy your vacations.

[Frenchtoastman]

Roji, on 28 August 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

I fail to see how 3rd person is an issue. Who cares if they said something else earlier? The game isn't released (and even if it was it's an MMO) and things are subject to change. I only use 1st Person and have used 3rd person for 1 game. 3rd person made me play worse and put me at a disadvantage....so what's the issue?

Even though you personally were at a temporary disadvantage while using 3PV, that doesn't stop other players from using it to peek over and around things without being exposed to enemy-fire. It changes the game into one where you will need to switch between the two view modes (or scout in 3PV always) just to stay competitive..thereby it makes 3PV about as manditory as equiping your mech with weapons. AKA, you could skip it, but you'd only be putting yourself at a severe disadvantage.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

Monky, on 28 August 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

What you're saying here isn't true. Good players acknowledge the utility of any tool given to them, 3PV included, when it is used properly for an advantage.

In 12 vs 12 we coordinate on TS to play other Merc Groups. We also lay ground rules. First rule of fight club lol... NO 3PV and that's it. I play in ARMD. 3pv is a campers tool and the game doesn't allow for much advantage of it cause the speed of the game. ie. sure use it to pop your head up, but in 12 vs 12 players are extremely trained to execute attacks on the same target.

Edited by Xenois Shalashaska, 28 August 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[Wolfways]

Roji, on 28 August 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

My assumption is that those of us hardcore players, myself included, are not giving them enough revenue and they need to appeal to more people. Sure we've been lied to (well I have since I'm a founder) but this isn't game breaking nor does it change the core gameplay. The only advantage of 3pv is in fact scouting yes BUT all the other disadvantages go to show that it's truly not a big deal. In fact most of the good players say to never use 3pv, not even to scout, because of all the disadvantages.

Where is the disadvantage of hiding behind cover, hitting F4, reporting to your team the enemy composition and movements, and hitting F4 again to resume normal play?
Even if the enemy see your blinky light and know you're there, so what? Any of them move to attack you you can see them coming and flee.
Also, if you stand next to a building in a city map in 3pv you can see up the roads on either side of the building.
And, you can use 3pv to watch the enemy and when they turn their back on you you can hit F4 and attack them from the rear.

3pv gives some huge advantages over 1pv.

Also, imo, if 3pv becomes popular then PGI will improve it over and over until even they cannot pretend that it is only to help new players.

Edited by Wolfways, 28 August 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Zakie Chan]

QuantumButler, on 28 August 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

They cannot, there are not enough players for split queues, and 3rd person is driving away more every day.

Seems like the cancer was discovered too late...

As I've said in the past, If they prioritized the needed systems properly we could have a robust matchmaker and do away with the 4 max vs 12 man queue. Then the player base would be divided the same number of times. The huge difference is folks would get to have enjoyable weight/skill matched fights AND pick which mode suits them best.

[Johnny Human]

CyBerkut, on 28 August 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

They will take people not spending money, and not playing the game more seriously. They can rationalize people in the 12 vs 12 pre-made queue away as "See, we've solved the problem! They are still with us. We can still sell them more product. We can point to them as a positive statistic. We've got them so hooked on the game that they can't bear to leave it."

I think what will happen in actuality is the 12v12 premade queues will become a diminishing player base.

And in the long run, 1PV likely will become a diminishing player base since they are defaulting new players into 3PV. The more fresh players they indoctrinate into 3PV, the fewer players there will be complaining that it is no longer a 1PV game. The 1PV old timers who funded the game's beta will be little more than myth...

[rollermint]

Would like to re-iterate that this is a step in the right direction.

They can cover more ground but I hope PGI can see that the reaction here are FAR MORE POSITIVE than the previous borderline insulting "apology" thread.

I voted "Yes" but let it be known also that there are many who brought up valid concerns, if this is only a bandaid, which it is and if its going to stop here, which we will find out sooner or later.

PGI must not stop here, They need to take that extra few steps further and allow us choices to play in which mode that we players prefer. If 3PV is as successful as you claim it is, then there is no need to mix them with the 1PV crowd. Everyone's happy and you get money from BOTH camps. Isn't that a better solution?

[Haitchpeasauce]

MWO needs a split queue and PGI won't do it because they know it will leave the 3PV queue largely empty. It's not that the player base is too small to support it (though it is indeed small), it's that they are avoiding the reality that 3PV is a failure.

Edit: Dammit.

Edited by Haitchpeasauce, 28 August 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[QuantumButler]

Zakie Chan, on 28 August 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Seems like the cancer was discovered too late...

As I've said in the past, If they prioritized the needed systems properly we could have a robust matchmaker and do away with the 4 max vs 12 man queue. Then the player base would be divided the same number of times. The huge difference is folks would get to have enjoyable weight/skill matched fights AND pick which mode suits them best.

To quote the immortal MST3K crew.

"They just didn't care"

[Straften]

The scary thing is, PGI, that the "small percentage" speaking up here seem to be comprised mostly of founders. Seems like your core audience is pretty upset. I'd remove 3PV from public queues until you can dedicate a separate queue for it. No one will play that ***** anyway. The only use it has is exploitation. Toggle on to get info, then toggle off, because it's not even playable. Whoever came up with this terrible idea needs to let go.

If you are doing to to port it to console, then do it to port to console. The PC community does NOT want 3PV. Clearly...

Edited by Straften, 28 August 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Jetfire]

This is not what I want, but it is the minimum I will accept. I really wish you would reconsider the Hardcore mode but I will take this.

At least this gets the competitive play squared away.

[soarra]

Straften, on 28 August 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

The scary thing is, PGI, that the "small percentage" speaking up here seem to be comprised mostly of founders. Seems like your core audience is pretty upset. I'd remove 3PV from public queues until you can dedicate a separate queue for it. No one will play that ***** anyway. The only use it has is exploitation. Toggle on to get info, then toggle off, because it's not even playable. Whoever came up with this terrible idea needs to let go.

If you are doing to to port it to console, then do it to port to console. The PC community does NOT want 3PV. Clearly...

i fully agree, ran out of likes so i figured i would quote it

[Jetfire]

Johnny Human, on 28 August 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

I think what will happen in actuality is the 12v12 premade queues will become a diminishing player base.

And in the long run, 1PV likely will become a diminishing player base since they are defaulting new players into 3PV. The more fresh players they indoctrinate into 3PV, the fewer players there will be complaining that it is no longer a 1PV game. The 1PV old timers who funded the game's beta will be little more than myth...

Yeah, about that... The core is here because this is mechwarrior, the 3PV players are here to try their flavor of the month game. The community is what new players will stick around for long term and keep the money coming in. The problem is the core has been waiting on this thing called Community Warfare to be convinced to spend more money.