77 replies to this topic

[CygnusX7]

I know of a game where its necessary to spend somewhere around $700 with discounts to have 100% content plus yearly subscription (deeply discounted if a year is bought at a time). Plus there is no way to make "cbills" and buy content without cash.

And in its own way it is in beta.

Just sayin.

[Airborne Thunder]

Jungle Rhino, on 29 August 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

Whatever happens just remember that 'player numbers are up', and their 'target demographic is growing'. Oh and '3PV has been a great success'.

Nail hit on head.

[Roadkill]

Alex Warden, on 28 August 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

for 18 Mechs of which 6 are heromechs... dunno how good you are in maths, but i doubt you can ignore the fact that is a fair price..

You're falling for PGI's trap. You're paying $110 for the 6 PP Mechs. The 12 stock variants are irrelevant, because no one in their right mind pays MC for the stock variants that can be purchased with c-bills. Unless you're made of money that just makes no sense.

We can argue about whether or not $110 for 6 champion Mechs is a good deal (personally I think not), but it's crazy to try to argue that it's $110 for 18 Mechs. It just isn't.

[Hellcat420]

this package should be a $10 upgrade of phoenix package at most. $30 is a complete ripoff.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Roadkill, on 29 August 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

You're falling for PGI's trap. You're paying $110 for the 6 PP Mechs. The 12 stock variants are irrelevant, because no one in their right mind pays MC for the stock variants that can be purchased with c-bills. Unless you're made of money that just makes no sense.

We can argue about whether or not $110 for 6 champion Mechs is a good deal (personally I think not), but it's crazy to try to argue that it's $110 for 18 Mechs. It just isn't.

Actually it is a matter of perspective.

You have to consider that those 18 mechs represent around 100+ million C-bills of grinding. That is 175 hours worth of grinding to own these mechs at the current average hourly rate based on PGIs data. Additionally you would be looking at having to spend 5400 MC to buy 18 bays so it would take $30 just to buy the bays.

So how much is 175 hours of your time worth? Of couse you could buy 2-3 months of premium to reduce the grind down to maybe 110 hours but now your up to $60 real money invested. So how much is 110 hours of your time worth? 0.50 cents a hour maybe? If so then $110 to bypass all this is at least break even.

AND.....this doesn't even factor into acount the value of the Hero or Champion mechs which ever you decided they are most similar too, the 90 days of free premium time or the value of the swag (which is valueless to me to be honest but definately has value to some).

The point is that unless you place no value at all on your personal time $110 is very, very cheap.

[Corvus Antaka]

No one has to buy these mechs. You seriously act as if you have to spend these 30 bucks

Hellcat420, on 29 August 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

this package should be a $10 upgrade of phoenix package at most. $30 is a complete ripoff.

6 extra mechbays and 2 more hero mechs is far from a rip-off. A Pretty baby is like 20 bucks all by itself without a mechbay.

[Shadey99]

Viktor Drake, on 29 August 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

So how much is 175 hours of your time worth?

To give this perspective... 175 hours of your time at US minimum wage is $1268.75. So at least in most of the US your opportunity cost is at least that amount.

Note PGI don't get any ideas that you can sell your next package for over $200 USD... I think you would probably have people coming after you with pitchforks and torches...

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Roadkill, on 29 August 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

You're falling for PGI's trap. You're paying $110 for the 6 PP Mechs. The 12 stock variants are irrelevant, because no one in their right mind pays MC for the stock variants that can be purchased with c-bills. Unless you're made of money that just makes no sense.

We can argue about whether or not $110 for 6 champion Mechs is a good deal (personally I think not), but it's crazy to try to argue that it's $110 for 18 Mechs. It just isn't.

This got me thinking...Project Pheonix Value breakdown.
(the dollar breakdown will assume the best value MC purchase 25,000MC/$100 or 250MC per $1)

Talon - Locust 20 tons x 75MC = 1500MC + 2x (reusable) mech bays (600) = 2,100 MC = $8.40
Storm - Shadow Hawk 55t x 75MC = 4,125 + 2x mech bays (600) = 4,725 MC = $18.90
Gaurdian - Thunderbolt 65t x 75MC = 4,875 + 2x mech bays (600) = 5,475 MC = $21.90 [+30 days premium time = $10]
Overlord - Battlemaster 85t x 75MC = 6,375 + 2x mech bays (600) = 6,975 MC = $27.90 [+60 days premium time = $20]
* Saber - Wolverine + Griffin = 110t x 75MC = 8,250 + 4x mech bays (1,200) = 9,450 MC = $37.80
_______________

Excluding Premium time (which is probably over priced, over valued currently), and excluding C-Bill mechs, and excluding the Hero mechbays (because they cannot be reused) this is what we have:

Straight up package value
Talon = $8.40/$20.00 = 42%
Storm = ($8.40 + $18.90)/$40 = 68%
Gaurdian = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $21.90)/$60 = 82%
Overlord = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $21.90 + $27.90)/80 = 96%

Package + Sabre
Talon + sabre = ($8.40 + $37.80)/$50.00 = 92%
Storm + sabre = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $37.80)/$70 = 93%
Gaurdian + sabre = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $21.90 + $37.80)/$90 = 97%
Overlord + sabre = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $21.90 + $27.90 + $37.80)/$110 = 104%
_______________

It is pretty clear that the Saber package is a good value-added item, and make any other Pheonix package more appealing but it only applies if you like Medium mechs. However because I don't play light mechs and that Locust is just an MWO tax I ran one more calculation and found I'm leaving money on the table with each package: Talon $9.80 equivelant of a 30 ton hero, Storm $10.90 equivelant of a 35 ton hero), Gaurdian ($9.00 equivelant of a 30 ton hero), and Overlord ($1.10 equivelant of a mechbay).

Package + Sabre - Locust (because I don't play light mechs)
Talon + sabre = ($8.40 + $37.80 - $6.00)/$50.00 = 80%
Storm + sabre = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $37.80 - $6.00)/$70 = 84%
Gaurdian + sabre = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $21.90 + $37.80 - $6.00)/$90 = 90%
Overlord + sabre = ($8.40 + $18.90 + $21.90 + $27.90 + $37.80 - $6.00)/$110 = 99%

In short, even though I wont play the locust, I would be getting 99% of my value out of the Overlord + Saber combo, and that 1% loss is easily justified by the Premium Time (not included in calculation), and the C-Bills mechs, which are actually worth their value in C-Bills (for buying Engines, DHS, Endo, etc).

Now I just have to figure out if I will be able to get another $110 of fun out of MWO before the sale ends.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 29 August 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[C A R N A G E]

I'll be getting it as soon as payday lands:-) .I'm totally stoked over the old mechs comming out and hope they keepem coming .thanks PGI:-)

[Znail]

Viktor Drake, on 28 August 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Also since that RT is going to be a magnet for fire, I have to wonder how viable it will be to run an XL.

On the other hand, what benifits are there to walking around after losing the RT and having no weapons? May as well go for XL and do the most of the your time while the torso lasts.

[Bishop Steiner]

Znail, on 29 August 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

On the other hand, what benifits are there to walking around after losing the RT and having no weapons? May as well go for XL and do the most of the your time while the torso lasts.

this seems true. Other mechs, can Zombie (though, IMO, that is still of nearly useless actual value), but with the Griffin, all the eggs are in one basket. I think the only way it woks, is XL'd to keep mobility, then loaded to be a more mobile Catapult. Pure fire support.

[Jungle Rhino]

Viktor Drake, on 29 August 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

The point is that unless you place no value at all on your personal time $110 is very, very cheap.

*beep beep beep* - Just backing up the WTFBBQ truck

Last time I checked MWO is a GAME - that we all play for FUN. When you start having to justify purchases based on the equivalent hourly rate that you would be 'earning' while grinding - then frankly something has gone horribly wrong.

You do not need to buy these mechs to play the game, while the 'grind' that you describe IS the game - there isn't even an epic loot at the end of the grind! Just more grind! You are paying so you don't have to grind - but then what do you do?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Znail, on 29 August 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

On the other hand, what benifits are there to walking around after losing the RT and having no weapons? May as well go for XL and do the most of the your time while the torso lasts.

This is a very good point and one I should have thought about when I posted this hehe. Must have been late...yep, that is my excuse and I am sticking too it

[Onmyoudo]

Jungle Rhino, on 30 August 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

*beep beep beep* - Just backing up the WTFBBQ truck

Last time I checked MWO is a GAME - that we all play for FUN. When you start having to justify purchases based on the equivalent hourly rate that you would be 'earning' while grinding - then frankly something has gone horribly wrong.

You do not need to buy these mechs to play the game, while the 'grind' that you describe IS the game - there isn't even an epic loot at the end of the grind! Just more grind! You are paying so you don't have to grind - but then what do you do?

Well ideally, we'd have an actual game to play (for said fun) rather than tiresome grind. Because grind is not a fun game, it's a job.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Jungle Rhino, on 30 August 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

*beep beep beep* - Just backing up the WTFBBQ truck

Last time I checked MWO is a GAME - that we all play for FUN. When you start having to justify purchases based on the equivalent hourly rate that you would be 'earning' while grinding - then frankly something has gone horribly wrong.

You do not need to buy these mechs to play the game, while the 'grind' that you describe IS the game - there isn't even an epic loot at the end of the grind! Just more grind! You are paying so you don't have to grind - but then what do you do?

No your missing the point. The point I am making is that for most of us time is valuable, this is why we buy premium time or hero mechs, to make the time we spend in game more productive which we hope will ultimately lead to us having fun.

Basically what I am trying to get across is that there is a certain value to being able to save yourself 175 hours of repetitively playing mechs you have played 100s of times before. Now maybe you own 5 mechs you absolutely love to play and that being the case spending 175 hours playing them is like heaven to you, but for most of us, while we enjoy the game, we enjoy new, bright and shinny things even more. Therefore spending $110 to bypass having to grind our current inventory of mechs for 175 hours can very well be considered a good value.

This is why I said it is a matter of prespective or how you look at it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Airborne Thunder, on 28 August 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

This Saber Reinforcement thing only makes me want a Project Phoenix refund even more. Again you buy something and they change it on you after you already spent the money. So now if I want the complete Project Phoenix set I have to spend an additional $30.00 to get the new additions. As I am no longer giving PGI any more money I am stuck with the choice of have an incomplete set of Project Phoenix mechs or canceling my Project Phoenix preorder altogether. What to do...

Better get ready for more Add ons, We haven't hit the Heavy Reinforcements! Which will likely be Rifleman, Warhammer & Marauder.


BTW:
The Phoenix Mechs look awesome.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 August 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

I totally get that Victor - I have a full time job and a 2yr old son so I am exactly the type of person who should be buying the Phoenix package! But the price when compared to other games is completely outrageous. $110 is a lot of money to be spending on a video game - especially when it isn't even a complete game, and all you are buying boils down to 'different clothes to dress your dollies in'. (don't take that as a slight, I love my 'dollies'!) You can still do exactly the same thing in the game, without the Phoenix package, and have $110 to spend on beer!

At least that is my perspective!

[Tremendous Upside]

Alex Warden, on 28 August 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

it´s because they can´t afford it...that´s all

C'mon seriously? You can always give blood/plasma or whatever. Hang out at traffic lights with a boot... Works for college kids when they need beer money...