20 replies to this topic

[Lanline]

So I picked the game up yesterday. Saved up my starter credits and purchased a D-DC as my first mech. Loving it so far, although I could certainly fire my srm's straighter. I'm only familar with the battletech universe through the Mechwarrior PC games and the Mechcommander games, but so far it's a joy.

I'm trying to put together a build that will do relatively well in pugs. After some reading this is what I put together:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f87d0648450d32a

My goal here is not to waste a whole lot of c-bills, so I want an idea of where my build is going before I start making costly purchases I may regret, such as engines. I've decided I like large lasers for their range versitility, and I'm trying to decide if the Artemis system if worth the purchase for 3 srms, either 6's or 4's.

Any critiques you folks could offer would be greatly appreciated. I get the feeling there are plenty of intricacies I'm not grasping yet when it comes to mech design. Ammo vs Heat sinks are issue for this build particularly I think. I've yet to purchase an endo steel frame or upgrade from the 300 engine so my current set up is loaded with both.

Edited by Lanline, 29 August 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Pastor Priest]

If you are dead set on the large lasers, I don't see a way to keep decent speed and heat efficiency with Artemis. It's nice to have, but I seem to do fine without it. I would also recommend another ton or two of SRM ammo. Try dropping the engine to a 325 and one heatsink from a side torso.

With all of that firepower, you're going to run hot no matter what. It's doable, though. Run your lasers and and an occasional AC20 shot at mid range. As you close in, use the missiles and AC, and only include the lasers for an extra burst to get the kill, or for sweeping lights.

Edited by Pastor Priest, 29 August 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[ProfessorD]

You've actually got a very competitive brawler in that build. You'll see that build leading the way for lances in serious, competitive units all the time. You need your AMS installed for sure; try this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab742d9cd823e37

I'm a fan of large lasers on this kind of mech, too. I think you've got a good balance going. They'll serve you well against harassing light mechs. Fortunately, the Atlases were blessed with quite good range of motion in the arms.

If you're new at this and still working on grinding Cbills, I'd say Artemis is a waste. Your 3 standard SRM 6s will do fine once you're used to them. Save the money for your Atlas-D and your Atlas-RS so you can master the chassis. Do not buy the Atlas-K, which just has fewer hardpoints than an Atlas-D and no advantage.

Lanline, on 29 August 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

I'm trying to put together a build that will do relatively well in pugs. After some reading this is what I put together:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f87d0648450d32a

My goal here is not to waste a whole lot of c-bills, so I want an idea of where my build is going before I start making costly purchases I may regret, such as engines.

That makes you about twice as smart as the standard new player. You're going to do well. Go find a good unit to join and enjoy killing all the other noobs.

[Lanline]

Awesome, I was thinking with more experience I could handle the D-DC with a slightly lower heat threshold and the ammo does seem a little low.

Pastor; This is, for the most part, how I'm running my D-DC. At What range is the ac20 effective? It lists 270 as it's maximum effective range, so I've been hesitant to shoot it much beyond that. How much does the the damage drop off effect the shot in the intermetdiate ranges where it's yellow but not green on your weapons bar?

ProfessorD; Is the AMS for my teammates or for SRM's? I get hit with very few lrms with my ECM disrupting, and while i see other D-DC's running them I don't understand their purpose. I stick to cover like it's my job. It is only 1.5 tons. What's the real effect this has? So I can lead a lance into another group without them taking damage?

Edited by Lanline, 29 August 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[Modo44]

This is about what you get with ES. Cool shots will help you a lot. I would move armor to the front, and take out a heatsink to put in the ammo, like this. If you want good heat efficiency, drop down to the 300 engine, take out ES, and add heatsinks. It is a simple tradeoff.

The ECM umbrella keeps your friends from getting shot/LRMd, so you usually want to be in the middle of a group. You can poke out of cover more often than ECM-less mechs, and you provide that ability to your team. Treat it like an area shielding spell.

The AC20 will do decent damage (about 10) out to 500m. If running with limited ammo, wait for best range.

AMS is for when you get TAGged or PPCd, which disables your ECM. It will also remove some SRMs, but not many.

Edited by Modo44, 29 August 2013 - 10:02 PM.

[Elizander]

Well, my comments on it.

• 330 standard engine isn't a common purchase. People prefer a 325 std or a 350std because you only get extra heat sinks every full 25 engine rating
  
• You barely have enough ammo for the SRMs. 200 on 3 SRM6s will run out very fast. It is only good for 11 shots while you have 21 shots on your AC/20 (which is okay). You'll lose almost half of your brawling firepower really quickly.
  
• Having a lot of rear armor is nice when your mech is really slow (non-elite Atlas) but you can lower it later once you get 4/4 elite unlocked and can deal with fast mechs better.

For a D-DC I prefer to go pure brawler meaning I use smaller lasers such as Medium or Medium Pulse lasers. If you want to squeeze in all your upgraded weapons, you will have to learn to not fire your Large Lasers when in close range (unless going for a kill or are about to die) and you should be fine. You can offset it with Coolant but that will kill any hopes of you ever earning C-bills ever again.

D-DC 2xLarge Laser 3xSRM6+A 4xSRM Ammo 1xAC20 3xAC20 Ammo 1xAMS 12xDHS 300std

What you can do is swap the AC/20 for a Gauss Rifle and gain some long range capability with it then downgrade your Laser Lasers to free up more space. It will also run cooler.

This is probably not a common build as it doesn't make use of one of the missile hardpoints, but you don't always need to fill them up. The Gauss and 2xLarge Lasers will work at any range, giving you low heat options to fire constantly from long-range to point blank. The number of SRM6s are reduced to 2 and can be used for added burst when the enemy gets close.

D-DC 2xLarge Laser 1xGauss Rifle 4xGauss Ammo 2xSRM6+A 2xSRM Ammo 1xAMS 300std

If your focus is moving faster then you have to make sacrifices in terms of firepower but if I was to try to go with what you want with your build I would probably go with something like this. More flexibility at what range you can fight in and enough ammo to get through an entire match without running dry. If your aim with your SRMs are not that good yet then it won't hurt to downgrade them a bit.

D-DC 2xLarge Laser 1xGauss Rifle 5xGauss Ammo 3xSRM4 4xSRM Ammo 1xAMS 15xDHS 325 std

Anyway, those are just suggestions that might help you out in deciding what you want to do.

[Xione87]

That's already a pretty good build to start you off with, though I prefer 4 tons of AC20 ammo on my atlasses. Just try it a few times and see if you need any more ammo.

If you're ever tired of using an AC20, you can also fit 2 UAC5's on most atlas builds with some fidgetting. This will dramaticly increase your DPS at the cost of reliability, heat and exposure time (so be carefull with this).

Good to see a new player think ahead before they jump into their first mech, you'll do well with that attitude. Have fun and see you ingame

[Rasc4l]

Lanline, on 29 August 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

I'm trying to put together a build that will do relatively well in pugs. After some reading this is what I put together:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f87d0648450d32a

Looks quite ok. I drive a similar except a bit more AC20 ammo, SRMs are artemis, a tad smaller engine (300-325, depends) and other hand ML instead of LL. The artemis is really a must and that will make your Atlas the killer. Otherwise, some missiles will always scatter too much. Forget AMS, it will just expose you to enemy. Like someone said, use almost only AC/20+missiles in a close up brawl in order to not overheat but with my build, you can sneak in an occasional ML hits.

[Snowcrow]

In compeditive play you can get away with not having that much ammo, since everyone always pulls their weight. In pugs that is rarely the case. You don't have nearly enough ammo.
Heat efficiency is extremely important for brawling atlases. They are slow, even with the 350 engine, so they need to be able to dish out a fuckton of damage without overheating.
And I'm a lover of artemis, it makes it possible to hit someone with the majority of your rockets, even at some distance.
Here's my build.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa3529540d88165

Edited by Snowcrow, 30 August 2013 - 12:20 AM.

[Modo44]

Do not put a Gauss on an Atlas. That shoulder gets focused every time, and a Gauss there will make you assplode in a hurry.

[Lanline]

Modo44:Took your advice on the armor up front, and it's already saving me a lot of trouble, I often found myself retreating to use my back armor when my core was getting focused, this makes a lot more sens. I can use my arms and torso worst case senario as long as people are watching my back. I also don't want a gauss on my D-DC, it seems like there are mechs that fit it better, AC20 or UAC5 seem like the best bet for a brawler. UAC5 may even make up for my large laser fetish.

Snowcrow: I looked around for people defending the artemis with srms... There are a few. An 16-18 rocket volley all hitting as oppesed to the 12-14 I generally hit with seems like a good trade off for the cost, if i can find the room. Especially if their hitting the chestal region. Wish i could see the spread in action. I hate to give up my large lasers, but I may.

Elizander: Thank you so much for clarifying that 25 m engine heatsink thing. It would have taken me a bit to guess.

[LoboSG]

well, the popular wep combination now is 2 ppc(er or otherwise) + 1 gauss. Long range 35 dmg all in one spot.
... which leaves you nothing much to deal with harassing lights. So you get 3 streaks, 1 ton ammo.

[Snowcrow]

LoboSG, on 30 August 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

well, the popular wep combination now is 2 ppc(er or otherwise) + 1 gauss. Long range 35 dmg all in one spot.
... which leaves you nothing much to deal with harassing lights. So you get 3 streaks, 1 ton ammo.

shush!

[Alex Warden]

it´s a pretty standard setup that works. that´s all i can say about it. it has a tendency to overheat quickly, keep that always in mind, then you´re good to go... the good thing is,it has some range-ability,which helps surviving. if you are up to brawling, switch the lasers for medium pulse,a bigger engine (NO XL!!!!) and probably more HS for longer fire maintenance. that is "standard" setup nr.2 the D-DC offers much more possibilites, but when you are more experienced with it,you´ll probably find out for yourself

btw, advising people to go for ppc-gauss cheese isn´t cool, Lobo... not a bit. that setup is not even really fun, and since almost every mech is able to do that,it´s not even something to be proud of

Edited by Alex Warden, 30 August 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

You, sir, have made a brave choice for your first 'Mech. Well done!

I have mastered four chassis and have just bought "My first Atlas" ™ - a D-DC. My current build is Std300, Endo Steel, ECM, AMS, 2xUAC5, 2xLL, 3xSRM6. I had my first 1000+ damage round yesterday. I am saving for a bigger engine - probably a Std325.

I found the combination of sloth-like speed with an AC20 to be limiting. People would engage me at range and limit my effectiveness. The AC20 does go much further than you think. It's still doing reasonable damage to 600m - but if you don't have the ammo to pot-shot and speculative fire - then waiting until you are closer is a good policy.

The pair of UAC5s gives you reach and DPS to off-set the lack of speed. I tried MPLs in the arms, switched to MLs and then from MLs to LLs in the arms to overcome the tendency of the UAC5s to jam and because a couple of MPLs/MLs is no deterrent to Light 'Mechs that get attracted to you like flies to an oasis.

I run 4xSRM4 with Artemis in my Stalker, which was very potent until the shadow-heat system was introduced. Now I tend to chain-fire them. They must be compared with 4xSRM6 without Artemis. It's a trade off. SRM4s fire more frequently, are cooler and are more ammo efficient - but nothing wrecks already damaged 'Mechs like a salvo of SRM6s at point-blank range. I don't see the Atlas as a refined warrior and I think aesthetically that the 3xSRM6s (with sufficient ammo!) is better suited to its style - and the extra spread helps hit circling lights.

I like AMS on the D-DC. I know it has ECM, but my early game strategy is to anchor a group, providing ECM and AMS umbrella. I have seen plenty of TAG laser-equipped lights and some teams are very LRM heavy. The Atlas is not going to dodge much missile fire.

That's my tuppence so far. Good luck.

[Autobot9000]

I would strongly advise you to swap rear armor to the front. I run my D-DC with 10-10-10 on the rear, if you're anxious you could do something like 10-20-10. Having this much rear armor is bad. You should mitigate shots from the rear through piloting not extra armor. If you die frequently from rear shots you might wanna watch a VOD or spectate in game to see how other people pilot their assaults and heavies.

[Lanline]

Great advice all around.

Thanks a bunch guys.

[Training Instructor]

Drop an srm6 to an srm4 for another ton of ammo. Much more sustained firepower. You're on the right track. You can build a vicious double uac5 build with that engine as well. Or double lb10x.

You're on the right track.

[MavRCK]

It's too hot with the large lasers - you have to use medium lasers.

Edited by MavRCK, 02 September 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Elizander, on 29 August 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

D-DC 2xLarge Laser 1xGauss Rifle 5xGauss Ammo 3xSRM4 4xSRM Ammo 1xAMS 15xDHS 325 std

Anyway, those are just suggestions that might help you out in deciding what you want to do.

Here's my variation on this DDC build. It's working pretty well for me.

2xLL 3xSRM4 Gauss STD 340

Could not manage to cram a 350 engine in there, but as you can see it has more than enough cooling. The Gauss is very vulnerable so you have to torso twist. However, if it blows it should not take out the mech.

Also, the point with this mech is not to always fight in close or long range, as there are builds that you will lose against in either situation. The key is to figure out how to engage in a way that favors what you bring vs. what your opponent has. Against a Gauss/PPC assault you need to close in enough to use your SRMs. Against brawlers you should try to get in as many shots as possible long range. etc.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 31 August 2013 - 11:18 AM.