35 replies to this topic

[Arcturious]

Small lasers are massively under rated. Even just 4 of them are worth the same as 2x medium pulse lasers. Except you can fire them more often, for much less heat.

On lights and fast mediums, you can get right behind other mechs, and rapidly pump damage into them. On one of my CDA's I run 5 small lasers, which give me the equivalent of a Gauss round almost every 2 seconds.

On fast mechs, they are great. Every time I come up against other lights running things like Mediums, let alone higher heat weapons like PPC's or LL I almost always win. My DPS and heat just hands down beat out the heavier weapons.

Sure you have trouble getting into range but once you are on someones back they usually ignore your tiny pew pew for bigger threats. Not realising you are rapidly reducing them to scrap.

[Huntsman]

Most of the best jenner pilots I know swear by either 6 sl or 4 ml +2 sl.

[XANi]

ML is 5 damage and 4 heat
2xSL is 6 damage and 4 heat

So yeah if there is enougth hardpoints left AND you're gonna stay mostly within 90m range, SL can be a bit better. But that's a very niche use and by that I mean "It's kinda worth it on JR7-F and when you're half ton and hardpoint left". Which is very small niche to fill.

I think range boost would be enougth so it would be viable on any hit-n-run mech, but that's still not much. Still, 9 SL HBK-4P would be interesting

[xenoglyph]

Huntsman, on 30 August 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Most of the best jenner pilots I know swear by either 6 sl or 4 ml +2 sl.

Do you know any good Jenner pilots? Nothing beats 6ml for general engagement if you can aim. JR7-F should be ducking in and out of combat, the high alpha of 6ml is best suited for that. 5ml will work if your aim isn't great.

6sl on a Jenner F doesn't make a lot of sense. You have to close in a lot more to deal your damage, then you're pretty much stuck in a fight to the death unless you want to give your opponent free shots while you run away. Yes, it's better against lights, but Jenner F will have a hard time against lights with missile hardpoints, small lasers or not(except Commandos of course). The fights against lights where small lasers give you an advantage could easily be handled by the 6ml build.

6sl is a powerful build no doubt, but 5 or 6ml gives you a lot more flexibility and lets you shine in more situations IMO.

Edited by xenoglyph, 30 August 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[Huntsman]

xenoglyph, on 30 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Do you know any good Jenner pilots? Nothing beats 6ml for general engagement if you can aim. JR7-F should be ducking in and out of combat, the high alpha of 6ml is best suited for that.

You've mistaken a Jenner for a flanker. While flanking is its secondary role, a Jenner is to be built with scout v scout contact in mind, and 6 ML is too hot for this.

The day a 6 ML Jenner outfights me while I'm in a scout is the day I hang up my scout license, and I consider myself a second tier scout pilot compared to the folks I'm thinking about.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Since we're exploring weapon tweaks, I wouldn't mind at least testing some changes to Range and Max Range for certain weapons and gear, before trying out other changes.

Maybe something like this could be tested?

• Flamer: _ _ 90 - 120 M

• SL & SPL: 120 - 210 M

• MPL: _ _ _210 - 400 M

• LPL: _ _ _ 330 - 650 M

• AMS: _ _ _ 64 - 240 M

• PPC:(120-540)- 1,080 M

[Szegedin]

xenoglyph, on 30 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Do you know any good Jenner pilots? Nothing beats 6ml for general engagement if you can aim. JR7-F should be ducking in and out of combat, the high alpha of 6ml is best suited for that. 5ml will work if your aim isn't great.

6sl on a Jenner F doesn't make a lot of sense. You have to close in a lot more to deal your damage, then you're pretty much stuck in a fight to the death unless you want to give your opponent free shots while you run away. Yes, it's better against lights, but Jenner F will have a hard time against lights with missile hardpoints, small lasers or not(except Commandos of course). The fights against lights where small lasers give you an advantage could easily be handled by the 6ml build.

6sl is a powerful build no doubt, but 5 or 6ml gives you a lot more flexibility and lets you shine in more situations IMO.

6 ML on a 7F is a great choice of course, and probably the most flexible option.

But I'd disagree that 90m-effective weapons don't make sense on a Jenner F, - the advantage of moving at 150kph is that you're almost never stuck in a fight to the death - you can move into and out of 90m range rather freely.

6 fast recycling low-heat weapons, particularly the Small Pulse in its current incarnation, are ideal for tearing into damaged sections of larger opponents while also offering an advantage against other lights fielding slower firing weapons.

The rapid on target delivery of the Small Pulse for instance, gives you the ability to move much more erratically in a knife fight, as you no longer have to hold your reticule on target. A Medium Laser's full duration feels like an eternity when dueling another light. I'd rather be doing a jump spin and reorienting my legs midair to shoot off in some oblique direction and snap firing alpha's the entire time---instead I'm stuck babysitting my Medium beam so it doesn't wander off target.

I think I can aim Mediums...i do well with them, - but I do better with Small Pulses...

Edited by Szegedin, 30 August 2013 - 06:42 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

small lasers are incredibly effective, both varieties. slightly hampered by their short range, but extremely useful filler guns, they recycle fast, dot fast, and are fairly cool compared to all the other energy weapons.

[TheBossHammer]

Lorcan Lladd, on 30 August 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Medium Lasers trump Small Lasers almost every single time.
The only exception is when Small Lasers are paired with similar weapons such as MGs and Flamers as these weapons share the same weaknesses and strengths, so there's a lot of synergy between them... For good or ill.

Any weapon below 5 tons is a complete waste as balance currently is. Medium lasers don't do jack and expose you too long to incoming fire to get all the damage across. They are better than small lasers, but ONLY because of the 270m range, at 90 m smalls are better.

[Raso]

I use 4 small lasers on my Jager-s along side dual AC10s. MY ACs provide all of the long range combat and if anything quick gets in close the Small Laser's short burn time and relatively lower heat allows me to score some sweet hits on any would-be harassers. The build is, first and foremost a medium to long range direct fire support unit so medium lasers would be a waste of heat and would take up tonnage better used for more ammo. Thus, the small lasers work exclusively for point defense when fast moving enemy units are too close to be with in my AC10's effective range.

I've also put both small beam and pulse lasers on my Hunchback 4P and have a few builds for my energy focused Blackjacks that use them in clusters but that's about it. Use them in groups for when closing range isn't an issue you have to over come.

Dang, I think I've found more uses for small lasers than for large pulse lasers... very lame.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 30 August 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I'd like some pulse range boosts as well, but how would buffing the SL hurt the MPL or LPL?

I simply don't like the idea that the Small Laser infringes on the Medium Pulse Laser territory. MPL range is 180m at the moment. Last thing we need is a .5 ton weapon suddenly become much more useful than a 2 ton weapon.

It's pretty much like how the Medium Laser infringes on the Large Pulse Laser territory. The differences is that the ML is the staple of all mechs... the LPL... well.. Paul has no wub wub for them

Edited by Deathlike, 30 August 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 30 August 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

I simply don't like the idea that the Small Laser infringes on the Medium Pulse Laser territory. MPL range is 180 at the moment.

It's pretty much like how the Medium Laser infringes on the Large Pulse Laser territory. The differences is that the ML is the staple of all mechs... the LPL... well.. Paul has no wub wub for them

Then buff the MPL (210-230m) and LPL (360-390m) range too?

Some lurking variables other than range to remember in these comparisons are also heat, damage, and duration, so just 'cause the range gap is lower doesn't mean the SL suddenly would become a "0.5 ton MPL replacement."

Edited by FupDup, 30 August 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 30 August 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Then buff the MPL and LPL range too?

What I meant was the proposed SL range increase to 180m is too much. 120m is where I'd start (at most I'd consider 150m).

Edited by Deathlike, 30 August 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 30 August 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

What I meant was the proposed SL range increase to 180m is too much. 120m is where I'd start.

120 feels a tad too low...compromise at 150m? Either way, the MPL and LPL both also get range boosts of their own under my plans (SL is not the only one). The MPL having really bad range isn't very strong justification for keeping other weapons of similar weight having bad range as well. Just buff everyone's range except ML and LL.

Edited by FupDup, 30 August 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 30 August 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

120 feels a tad too low...compromise at 150m? Either way, the MPL and LPL both also get range boosts of their own under my plans (SL is not the only one).

Sounds fine. 300m would be its max range, where the med laser IS more useful (for obvious reasons). MPL needs so much more help than a range increase (heat reduction to be closer to med laser levels would be more in line)

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 30 August 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Sounds fine. 300m would be its max range, where the med laser IS more useful (for obvious reasons). MPL needs so much more help than a range increase (heat reduction to be closer to med laser levels would be more in line)

Yeah, the MPL definitely needs a heat reduction to ~4.5 or so and a damage increase to ~6.5 (maybe even bump it up to 7).

Edited by FupDup, 30 August 2013 - 07:40 PM.