7 replies to this topic

[TheBossHammer]

Read the title, vote in the poll.

As I see it, the PPC meta exists because as of right now, there is no close range weapon that deals pinpoint damage as well as the PPC, which is supposed to be a sniping weapon. This is backed up by when the PPC meta came about: PGI nerfed small and medium lasers due to their dominance when used on Swaybacks before DHS arrived, and then DHS happened, PPC's had their heat reduced and 5-6 PPC Stalkers popped out of nowhere. The simplest fix is to revert the numbers back a bit and make all the smaller lasers significantly more powerful, to make boating them (something that is supported by the fluff) more effective. Yes, it will raise the alpha potential on Medium Lasers from the current 30 to 42, but when you consider that 3 PPC's and a Gauss Rifle does 45 damage in an alpha at almost three times the range, it doesn't seem so bad anymore, and would be beneficial for the balance of the game since the recycle time on medium lasers is much lower, and this change would push their DPS to around 2.3, which is about the same as a single PPC (and since the player will have less time to shoot due to the shorter range, that higher DPS potential overall due to more lasers is a good thing. It should even out in practice, even if in theory it seems like a bit much.)

TL/DR: I want to buff Medium lasers to 7 damage and small lasers to 5 damage. This will counter the increased range on PPC oriented mechs and give the DPS edge back to lots of smaller lasers, as opposed to a couple pinpoint PPC's.

What say you, the community?

*Added new questions into the poll as alternatives to my initial idea, including toning the 2 jump to 1, making the final numbers 6 and 4, or tweaking a number of other parts of the weapons. Not many people voted, but the first idea seems like it won't happen...15 to 2 is pretty telling.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 31 August 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[Hellcat420]

no. and the ppc is not really a sniper weapon(even tho pgi kind of screwed them up and people use them for sniping), that is what gauss rifle is for. ppc is more like the energy version of a large caliber autocannon.

Edited by Hellcat420, 30 August 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Team Leader]

what? no way! have you completely lost it?? we dont need things even more broken than they are!

[Avalios]

Last thing we need is mechs dieing faster then they already do. Pulses do need love but more damage is not the way to go. My vote, major heat reduction.

[TheBossHammer]

Hellcat420, on 30 August 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

no. and the ppc is not really a sniper weapon(even tho pgi kind of screwed them up and people use them for sniping), that is what gauss rifle is for. ppc is more like the energy version of a large caliber autocannon.

That's factually incorrect...the PPC has the second longest direct-fire range in the game (behind the GR), and from a fluff perspective, was meant to be a super long range version of a laser. Whether or not that is the case, the exact problem is that the PPC outranges everything else in the game (except the GR) and deals too much DPS compared to everything else. However, nerfing it will send it back into uselessness, so there's no fix other than buffing the other weapons. PPC lethality is exactly right or maybe just a hair too high, everything else is far too low. Medium lasers were about right in Beta, but PPC's weren't strong enough to counterbalance them.

Team Leader, on 30 August 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

what? no way! have you completely lost it?? we dont need things even more broken than they are!

Nope. Offering a suggestion, and I'd love to know how this would break anything. It's a large buff, to be sure, but quite frankly, I'm not sure how buffing Medium Lasers a bit would make things worse...

Avalios, on 30 August 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Last thing we need is mechs dieing faster then they already do. Pulses do need love but more damage is not the way to go. My vote, major heat reduction.

The DPS on Medium Lasers, at 7 damage, is identical to a PPC and with only 1/3 the range and significantly better heat/damage (7 damage on 4 heat PER GUN, vs 10 damage per 9 heat per PPC), but that heat is offset by the range difference. The only mechs that would benefit from it massively are the Swayback (which is presently completely useless, even after the medium buff) and a couple other similar mechs (the quickdraw, etc), none of which are currently considered to be all that good. With this change, brawlers would have a clear advantage within 300m, as it should be, but would most likely have lost half their guns by the time they get that close. Heat reduction won't do jack, as Medium lasers barely ever stop a mech built around them from shooting by heat. A Swayback with DHS will literally never run into that problem, even as now. A range increase would work too, but that is so far outside of canon that it hurts.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 30 August 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Livewyr]

no.

Small lasers are good.
Medium Lasers are good.

Small Pulse lasers are good.
Medium Pulse lasers are almost good. (need a slight heat reduction)



that 3PPC/Gauss Alpha that does 45 points at 2 times the range.. also weighs more than the entire Jenner in weapons alone. (compared to the 6tons total of 6xML)


Absolutely not.

[TheBossHammer]

Livewyr, on 30 August 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

no.

Small lasers are good.
Medium Lasers are good.

Small Pulse lasers are good.
Medium Pulse lasers are almost good. (need a slight heat reduction)



that 3PPC/Gauss Alpha that does 45 points at 2 times the range.. also weighs more than the entire Jenner in weapons alone. (compared to the 6tons total of 6xML)


Absolutely not.

Small lasers are not good in the slightest. Range is too short to be effective and by the time you can use them, the PPC guy has blown off half of them.
Medium lasers are not terrible, but are ok. Same problem as smalls though, by the time you hit 270m in anything other than a pug, most of them will be gone.
Small Pulse Lasers are, hands down, the worst gun in the whole game that doesn't belch fire. Too much heat for too little damage at too short a range for too many tons.
Medium Pulse Lasers are better than people think they are, but they still aren't good by any strech. They are actually better in some situations that medium lasers are, but aside from popping the legs off of lights, they don't do much, and an AC/20 does the job better if you can aim.

The PPC is good.
The AC/20 is good.
The Gauss Rifle is good.
The AC/2, hilariously enough, is kinda good.
The AC/5 and UAC/5 are good.
The LB 10-X is finally good.
...Machineguns are kinda good actually, used correctly anyway.

LRM's are meh, but amazing when your team is coordinated.
SRM's are meh, but a good final punch and a great addition to the LB 10-X.

The only big gun that isn't better to the ton than a bunch of lasers is the AC/10, and that's cause it sucks, and arguing that the weight of the 3PPC/Gauss combo means anything is a joke when the Heat Sinks required to keep lasers cool in any moderate amount on their recycle time almost makes up the difference by itself, and if you use DHS instead, you won't have enough crit slots to keep them cool as is. There is a problem here, but it's not the PPC/Gauss combo. It's the fact that even if I boat 9 medium lasers on a Hunch, I'll only have three of them to engage the target because my right shoulder will be ghosted the second I round a corner. Even 2 PPC's and a Gauss, the standard Cataphract build, can pull that one off.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 31 August 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[TheBossHammer]

Shameless self bump, changes were made to the poll. New options are available.