17 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

I have had experience with LRMs you must evade in MechWarrior 3, so when I saw MWO's LRMs I knew exactly how to never be hit by them within a few games. Consquently, I have only had my Mech destroyed by LRMs five times that I can remember since June 2012. Yes, they are that easy to evade. Which is okay, but the balance for that is they do serious damage and right now they don't, even with Artemis, LoS, TAG and BAP. Maybe I am supposed to use NARC too?

Once I realized MWO was deep in Missile paranoia, I began to actually mark the times my Mech was destroyed by LRMs and that number is 4 since August 2012.

When LRMs were bugged and doing wide area damage to mechs and everyone went into hysterical tailspins demanding an instant nerf on the forums here, my Mech was untouched. Not a scratch to LRMs even though they were flying all over the map.

I am recounting this just so you understand how difficult it is to hit anything with MWO's LRMs if the target is being evasive, successfully.

So you have given everyone the ability to evade missiles if they try, so LRMs need to do an amount of damage when they do hit that rewards the difficulty of getting them to hit. This style of gameplay requires both players to learn skills instead of just giving the LRM pilot an unwinnable game.

If LRMs are to remain at their present damage level you should make them fire-and-forget. Meaning once they lock-on they stay locked-on unless the target breaks Line-of-Sight, but the LRM pilot is done once the missiles are away. This allows the LRM pilot to be as evasive as their targets at least.

Finally, there is a balance that working LRMs bring to MechWarrior gameplay. They are a good counter to PPCs and Gauss Rifles and anything really long range. It might get messy, but it's a balanced mess.

[Thorqemada]

Lightfoot, on 31 August 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

"...I realized MWO was deep in Missile Paranoia..."

"There ain’t too much I can say about this son, except that the answer is already in your mind."

PS: And now some unrelated Music...

Edited by Thorqemada, 31 August 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

yeah sadly when 6-8 lrm boats are on 1 team with a good scout or 2 and everyone starts dropping like flies the LRMS are OP crowd leaps to action.

LRMS could probably stand a damage boost to 1.8 or a return of splash damage and still be fine, with ECM, cover, AMS and 12 man worth of AMS LRMS are nearly worthless beyond being supplementary softeners.

[Wolf Ender]

LRM's are closer to balanced right now than at any other point in the games history. before now they were always either utterly useless or laughably overpowered. right now they're where they should be, a good weapon that is avoidable if you know what you're doing, but very punishing to anyone too stupid to use cover or evade.

the problem is you cannot buff one weapon without also buffing 2, 3, 4, or 5 of that weapon if they're used in en masse.

if you buff LRMs because you aren't happy with your effectiveness as ONE (or maybe 2) LRM mech(s) in a match with no spotter and no coordination, you are going to be buffing them to OP status for groups that DO use them in mass and coordinate with spotters and use organization. it could easily turn in to LRM-apocalypse all over again.

[Lightfoot]

I agree they are close too balanced and that their ability to hit things over hills and objects makes that hard to get right. However, there is no reason LRMs should not be dangerous to Mechs caught in the open. If I see alot of LRMs flying around I avoid the open missile lanes on the map so I can get behind an object and power down if I get targeted. That ability to neutralize missiles is the balancer of the LRMs ability to target indirectly. So maybe an LoS buff is still needed.

I find that with LoS targeting I am forced to move laterally to deflect incoming fire as much as possible. That lateral pathing takes you into close range eventually, faster if you get stuck on a rock or boulder now.

What I really want see is for LRMs to be good as a secondary weapon to back-up other weapon loadouts and they need a bit more LoS punch for that.

[Sephlock]

You will never win against the tide of tears. For every voice of reason there are ten thousand idiots ready to scream bloody murder the second they get a whiff of that most hated of commodities: "OTHER PEOPLE'S HARMLESS FUN". OMG YOU LIKE LRMS BUT I HAVE AN IRRATIONAL AND COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED HATRED OF THEM! NERF THEM PGI NERF THEM!

[Name132675]

wait is this a real thread or some eleborate troll?

[Bendak]

Tricepticon, on 01 September 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

wait is this a real thread or some eleborate troll?

I really don't know the difference any more.

[Stingray Productions]

back in closed beta one LRM20 (if all missles it) would to 40 damage, so a catapult would have a firepower of 80. Yes, they were devastating back then. I guess I'm ok with the way it is now.

[Firewuff]

LRms are giving me the ***** with Pre mades... I would like to fight and not have LRM spam incoming from 6 different directions and a spider dancing around. They are well balanced but really devestaing when used en-mass.

[TheNose]

Firewuff, on 02 September 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

LRms are giving me the ***** with Pre mades... I would like to fight and not have LRM spam incoming from 6 different directions and a spider dancing around. They are well balanced but really devestaing when used en-mass.

I somehow have the idea, this isn't because of the lrms, but more because of the invincible ecm spotter spider.
Maybe I'm wrong.

[Solis Obscuri]

I actually think LRMs are fine in non-ECM pug matches right now - while they can be avoided, you ignore them at your peril.

However, once ECM comes into play direct-fire snipers can stay in the open with impunity. I still think ECM needs fixing.

[Bendak]

LRMs and ECM are fine as is currently implemented. Anyone overly using LRMs crying about this should include tag in their configuration and learn to play. You are actually going to have to get direct line of sight and aim a little.... I know it is hard but you only have to tickle an ECM mech with TAG and he lights up like a Christmas tree.

[Lightfoot]

Bendak, on 02 September 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

LRMs and ECM are fine as is currently implemented. Anyone overly using LRMs crying about this should include tag in their configuration and learn to play. You are actually going to have to get direct line of sight and aim a little.... I know it is hard but you only have to tickle an ECM mech with TAG and he lights up like a Christmas tree.

If you read my original post you will see the main subject is that LoS LRMs with BAP, TAG, Artemis, and even Narc do not reward the player with the damage they should. I could take two large lasers and do more damage easily than LRM 45 with this set-up and LoS. This is WHY you see PPCs and Gauss everywhere, they are just 10 times better and 20 times easier to use.

MechWarrior requires Good LRMs to be balanced, or good enough that players will consider LRMs over Gauss and PPC's or whatever is the FOTM build. If they don't measure up to the other weapons available, no one will use LRMs except Noobs and LRM boat fleets who try to run a trick tactic on the other team.

Do you really want LRMs for foolish players who don't know better, or do you want a multi-dimensional Mech combat sim? Because as it stands MWO will launch with the 'LRMs for fools version', but fools learn too. And then all MWO is left with is this really one dimensional combat using PPCs and Gauss/AC's only.

So which is worse? LRMs that can destroy mechs if used well or the one-dimensional PPC-Gauss/AC-fest that everyone is going bananas over? I think the "going bananas" over something or other is mandatory, so it comes down to the one-dimensional Mech combat we have now, or the multi-dimesional Mech combat that good LoS LRMs will create.

Edited by Lightfoot, 02 September 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Sug]

I'd rather they get another range increase, and actual acceleration mechanics instead of launching out the tubes at full speed. This would make them more viable at 500+ ranges while still keeping time to impact at shorter ranges the same.

Edited by Sug, 02 September 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Oppresor]

Interesting, an LRM that can take a Mech out in one shot. It would need to be a big one so how about something like this:

.

[Firewuff]

TheNose, on 02 September 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

I somehow have the idea, this isn't because of the lrms, but more because of the invincible ecm spotter spider.
Maybe I'm wrong.

Nope thats 100% right. I think that they are well balanced its just they cane be anoyingly devestating in a well coordinated group which I'm usuaslly on the receiving end of not being some one who has time to organise groups such as that.


Regarding "not enough damage for LOS" .... seriously thats the point, they are a support weapon, not ment to be used in LOS. A sniper SHOULD always win in line of site but they cant touch you if you are shooting from behind cover... you can't have it both ways, or more to the point that was the problem with LRMS before. they were deadly LOS and deadly from cover.....


RE ECM... given there exists TAG, PPC, BAP, extended sensor modules all as counters to ECM there is no excuse now. Mount tag or an ERPPC + enhanced target delay on your LRM boat, you get direct fire to scare the hell out of them AND the ability to get another shot in via LRMS after the fact. Pretty nasty combo (see my Victor).

[Boymonkey]

I take my Cat out every now and then with 2xLRMS15 mounted and have no problem getting a couple of kills each match.
They are the most balanced they have been, plus they are great at stopping a mad charge from a group of mechs, If there are 4 targets I cycle each target and fire a volley the charging mechs soon rush back for cover.
Working as intended in my eyes.