39 replies to this topic

[King Curt]

IV Amen, on 01 September 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:

Looks like a full smear campaign. The article has 3 pages of text and not one single positive mention. Really? Call that objective journalism?

It is indeed a smear campaign and the word journalism shouldn't even be applied to this rot.

I will put it bluntly -- all of this {Scrap} being flung by goons and the like is simply because one of those self-important spoiled brats wasn't allowed to demand game changes and additions via some imagined special privilege. But that doesn't stop goons, in their standard egomaniacal fashion, from taking offense at this non-existent snub. They think they are so important, since some of them forked over some money a while ago, that their backing of MW:O makes them better than any of the rest of us.

I am King Motherfunking Curt! No goon is better than me! And I am saying right now to all of them -- your argument is invalid. You've received more than you paid for and you continue to receive a purchased item that constantly improves. Buy anything else that gets better after you buy it and then whine about it, then consider the disgusted reactions of others.

But let's get this into some real perspective, goons. Let's get real -- I want just one of you haters and whiners to post from Syria. Go to a nice Syrian cyber cafe and then start posting about how farking important your displeasure with a little third-person-view camera bot. In fact walk up to the nearest Syrian soldier and say, "You know what? I'm really upset that I wasn't promised something I imagined in my brain in a computer game I want to play! Help me, Assad, you're my only hope!"

Get some perspective.

King Curt says so.

Edited by King Curt, 01 September 2013 - 04:13 AM.

[Cybermech]

Well then Tolkien you have no idea what "force" is using you.
3pv is bad, will be bad and forever bad???

I'm not trying to be liked, at this point I couldn't care less about it.
All those links your posting are wrong with so many lies on each one.
You have been here long enough to see them so I'm not being nice about since you should no better.'
You have also seen the damage that crying has done to these forums.
While you speak of 3pv and highlighting its MASSIVE ERRORS that few are even trying to defend.

But what your following is something that has forced a lot of people away from these forums for a long time.
The only thing your doing is ensuring that the gap between PGI and community gets worse.
Its a publicity stunt, you should know better.
I have given up trying to bring some sanity to these forums.
If you want to join the failed crusade and ruin peoples times here then its your choice.
Same if PGI want to implement something that very small portion want in place they can to.
This is not a kickstarter - its not founder funded.
Game was already here when it was released.
I don't think anyone deserves refund on founders after playing for a year.
Pheonix package is another thing.

YOU ARE BEING USED!

[rollermint]

RedThirteen, on 01 September 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Insufficient ACTIVE playerbase to justify splitting already thin numbers into separate queues perhaps?

Or how about not angering a significant portion of your playerbase by not forcing them a feature they don't want?

[General Taskeen]

King Curt, on 01 September 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

I will put it bluntly -- all of this {Scrap} being flung by goons

I like how everything is a "goon" conspiracy. First goons were blamed on other non-trivial things and now they are blamed for what journalists can read on these forums - its all documented.

So are goons to blame for the bad handling of ECM, Seismic, Ghost Heat, and 3PV? - (or how about a full year trying to make NARC, LB 10-X, MG's, and Flamers viable, when they still are not). Yeah, I think not.

And then you go on to talk about Syria, - ok what? You do realize Imperialist powers are flexing their murder/greed muscles for a grand game of subterfuge and global chess, correct (I.E., Syria is not one the Imperial powers, hint hint)? Why even inject that into the discussion, it has nothing to do with this.

[AlexEss]

rollermint, on 01 September 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

Or how about not angering a significant portion of your playerbase by not forcing them a feature they don't want?

What significant potion.. I think it has been explained before, the active part of the forum community is a best a very small part of the over all community and not representative unless a massive majority express the exact same opinion.

This have yet to happen here. Especially as we have no way of really knowing how many people drive a question as there is no upper limit on how many accounts you can make.

General Taskeen, on 01 September 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

I like how everything is a "goon" conspiracy. First goons were blamed on other non-trivial things and now they are blamed for what journalists can read on these forums - its all documented.

Well they have done a lot of work to gain the reputation they have... =P

Buuuuut.. No journalist wrote that slap of waste... Since a real journalist would have been a lot better on checking his/her sources and doing research. But i agree that the author most likley scanned the forums hastily (or even worse had the story dictated to him by a third part..)

Then again i am sure that if enough so called journalists report it people would believe that the moon is pink and made of Play-Doh.. Then again not even newspapers bother to check their sources any more so i guess it is to much to ask that a bunch of happy amateurs would do it.

Edited by AlexEss, 01 September 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[King Curt]

General Taskeen, on 01 September 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

I like how everything is a "goon" conspiracy. First goons were blamed on other non-trivial things and now they are blamed for what journalists ...

And that's where your argument just hit the wall of invalidation. Well done!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

King Curt, on 01 September 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

It is indeed a smear campaign and the word journalism shouldn't even be applied to this rot.

I will put it bluntly -- all of this {Scrap} being flung by goons and the like is simply because one of those self-important spoiled brats wasn't allowed to demand game changes and additions via some imagined special privilege. But that doesn't stop goons, in their standard egomaniacal fashion, from taking offense at this non-existent snub. They think they are so important, since some of them forked over some money a while ago, that their backing of MW:O makes them better than any of the rest of us.

I am King Motherfunking Curt! No goon is better than me! And I am saying right now to all of them -- your argument is invalid. You've received more than you paid for and you continue to receive a purchased item that constantly improves. Buy anything else that gets better after you buy it and then whine about it, then consider the disgusted reactions of others.

But let's get this into some real perspective, goons. Let's get real -- I want just one of you haters and whiners to post from Syria. Go to a nice Syrian cyber cafe and then start posting about how farking important your displeasure with a little third-person-view camera bot. In fact walk up to the nearest Syrian soldier and say, "You know what? I'm really upset that I wasn't promised something I imagined in my brain in a computer game I want to play! Help me, Assad, you're my only hope!"

Get some perspective.

King Curt says so.

Wow.

I can't even respond to this mastery of the English language.

And the content...mind blowing.

[Tolkien]

AlexEss, on 01 September 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

What significant potion.. I think it has been explained before, the active part of the forum community is a best a very small part of the over all community and not representative unless a massive majority express the exact same opinion.

This have yet to happen here. Especially as we have no way of really knowing how many people drive a question as there is no upper limit on how many accounts you can make.

You are correct but I believe we have that 'massive majority'



I understand the concept of 'vocal minority' but that concept implicitly assumes that there is a big difference between the people who are passionate enough to come to the forums and those who are not. Dismissing a 90% poll result against 3pv by saying the 'silent majority' likes or is neutral to 3pv is an extraordinary claim and needs extraordinary proof.

[ssm]

Weird thing is, all those articles that popped up in last few days use almost exact same wording, same arguments and same lack of actual fact checking (in regard to coolant, for example), that it looks like somebody is bombing every gaming media outlet with angry, strong worded emails, interns do some research (on other sites that got the same letter) and then roughly copy and publish its contents as their own.

Edited by ssm, 01 September 2013 - 04:33 AM.

[AlexEss]

Tolkien, on 01 September 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

You are correct but I believe we have that 'massive majority'



I understand the concept of 'vocal minority' but that concept implicitly assumes that there is a big difference between the people who are passionate enough to come to the forums and those who are not. Dismissing a 90% poll result against 3pv by saying the 'silent majority' likes or is neutral to 3pv is an extraordinary claim and needs extraordinary proof.

Ah... Just the one i was waiting for... Let me break it down in a critical fashion

A: We assume that everyone of those votes are a singular unique individual, to make that a massive majority the MWO community is less then 6000 players in total. If that is true we have other problems. Now the reason for this is that we can not do a extrapolation from this with any degree of certainty because it is a highly loaded question. It would be like only asking Ford owners if they think there should be a special tax on Ford vehicles.

B: There is a good chance that the numbers are inflated as there is no limit on the numbers of accounts a person can create and thus use to vote in the poll. This would skew the results and make them useless.

So all that poll proves is that there is a small part of the community that does not like this (and they had made their voice heard.. A LOT... even before the poll. But without the rest of the data the poll in it self is pointless. Maybe if the number of votes would have been closer to 100% and the participating number close to the number of registered accounts you would have a platform to stand on

[Cybermech]

and thats where the lying starts.
the idea that the poll was not a hot topic within PGI, that it hadn't any value to the decision of putting in 3pv is the start of it.
your pretending to be speaking for your self and you are not, your just coping and pasting.
Those polls in your sig are biased too, when none of them mention low player numbers.
Your spreading lies along with the rest who have been doing nothing but trolling in these forums for a year.
They are using real problems then mixing it up so suite their needs.
Congrats on being a puppet.

[Tsig]

Unfortunately, Tolkien, only PGI has the proof and it's unlikely we'll ever see it. As it stands, 3PV is probably here to stay in some form or another. I will continue to play this game, because I find joy in running around with my friends in big, stompy, robots. Hell, if I had another $30 to spare, I'd have gotten the Saber Pack already. I got exactly what I paid for with my Founders Pack, which was my Mech of Choice, Early Access to the Beta, MC, and Premium Time. Anything else was up to PGI on what they planned to do. If you feel differently than I do about that, then please, feel free to let PGI know, but try to keep the threats and general hate out of it. Sure, you may feel lied to, but that little ToS you signed stated that the game could change at any time at PGIs discretion. If you don't like it, point out why you don't like it in a civil manner and promptly stop playing/stop paying them. Threats of violence/legal action will get you nowhere.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

AlexEss, on 01 September 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

Ah... Just the one i was waiting for... Let me break it down in a critical fashion

A: We assume that everyone of those votes are a singular unique individual, to make that a massive majority the MWO community is less then 6000 players in total. If that is true we have other problems. Now the reason for this is that we can not do a extrapolation from this with any degree of certainty because it is a highly loaded question. It would be like only asking Ford owners if they think there should be a special tax on Ford vehicles.

B: There is a good chance that the numbers are inflated as there is no limit on the numbers of accounts a person can create and thus use to vote in the poll. This would skew the results and make them useless.

So all that poll proves is that there is a small part of the community that does not like this (and they had made their voice heard.. A LOT... even before the poll. But without the rest of the data the poll in it self is pointless. Maybe if the number of votes would have been closer to 100% and the participating number close to the number of registered accounts you would have a platform to stand on

So basically with no proof at all, you are dismissing that poll because you think a group of people made a bunch of extra accounts to vote?

It's not like there is a small amount of participation in that poll.

And you seriously don't understand how sampling works do you? If 4000 people vote one way for something, that easily covers the entire community.

We decide who is the President of the United States with a smaller % sample than that.

But still in the end, I love how you immediately say people made multiple accounts to vote with no proof at all. Don't you think PGI would have come out and invalidated that poll if there were a lot of freshly made accounts skewing it?

[Tolkien]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 September 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

So basically with no proof at all, you are dismissing that poll because you think a group of people made a bunch of extra accounts to vote?

It's not like there is a small amount of participation in that poll.

And you seriously don't understand how sampling works do you? If 4000 people vote one way for something, that easily covers the entire community.

We decide who is the President of the United States with a smaller % sample than that.

But still in the end, I love how you immediately say people made multiple accounts to vote with no proof at all. Don't you think PGI would have come out and invalidated that poll if there were a lot of freshly made accounts skewing it?

I think the better example is http://en.wikipedia....Nielsen_ratings

These ratings use 0.02% of TV viewers (a vocal minority willing to put up with the nielsen ratings equipment in their house....) to decide the fate of all TV programming in the US.

I understand there are problems with using a vocal impassioned minority to guide the whole, but it's the way it's done in much more serious ($$$) circles.

[Tolkien]

AlexEss, on 01 September 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

Ah... Just the one i was waiting for... Let me break it down in a critical fashion

A: We assume that everyone of those votes are a singular unique individual, to make that a massive majority the MWO community is less then 6000 players in total. If that is true we have other problems. Now the reason for this is that we can not do a extrapolation from this with any degree of certainty because it is a highly loaded question. It would be like only asking Ford owners if they think there should be a special tax on Ford vehicles.

B: There is a good chance that the numbers are inflated as there is no limit on the numbers of accounts a person can create and thus use to vote in the poll. This would skew the results and make them useless.

So all that poll proves is that there is a small part of the community that does not like this (and they had made their voice heard.. A LOT... even before the poll. But without the rest of the data the poll in it self is pointless. Maybe if the number of votes would have been closer to 100% and the participating number close to the number of registered accounts you would have a platform to stand on

Let's entertain your suggestion about inflated numbers by looking at the two polls in my sig. Unfortunately I think the original is long gone so I can't look there, but the new ones are also running 80-90% against 3pv. Both seem to be public polls, and clicking on the '3pv bad' responses in Soarra's poll I see that roughly 50% of everyone there is a founder of some sort.

Let's assume you're right about vote inflation and EVERY SINGLE NON-FOUNDER is a sock puppet account. In that case if you look at the 'mixed queue' the answer that is pgi's current implementation there are more than half NON-FOUNDERS. This means the ratios drop together when you take out the sock puppets and the 80-90% result remains valid.

If you go further and suggest that every single non-founder who likes 1pv/3pv mxed is legit, but every single non-founder who doesn't like 3pv is a sock-puppet, there are still only ~5% that want mixed 1pv/3pv, and doubling that to 10% hardly moves the needle. Still a super majority against.

If you are suggesting that there are hundreds of players who picked up multiple founders packs just to sock puppet a year later, I have a lot of trouble believing that.

Seriously go click through on the public results in the polls in my sig and see how many are founders/non founders. Sock puppets would generally be the free accounts.

Edited by Tolkien, 01 September 2013 - 05:03 AM.

[General Taskeen]

King Curt, on 01 September 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

And that's where your argument just hit the wall of invalidation. Well done!

That's nice. I am going to chalk up every word you said as something that really isn't your viewpoint. You are a masterful troll. Well done.

[Lord Ikka]

Its a disheartening but accurate article. Here's to being positive through release and the end of the year, because if MWO is going to survive and be the game we want it to it will do so in the next three months. I have hope, but it is not endless.

[AlexEss]

I know how sampling works... I also know how you can use it to paint exactly the image you want. In fact it is so easy to skew the results that i think it should come with a disclaimer.

As for you Tolkien.. Not saying i am right, i am saying it is worth to be a tad bit critical about how good the info you can gather is. As i pointed out before PGI/IGP are the only ones who sit on the actually relevant numbers

So no... I do not give the theory of being able to sample the entire MWO community through a few polls on this forum. I might stretch it so far as to say that you could argue that a majority of the active forum members do not want 3PV. That does not make it a scientific fact, sorry.

[Corvus Antaka]

HRR Insanity, on 31 August 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

http://games.slashdo...mmunity-warfare

Bad press... it's just the beginning.

You can still fix this... you know that right?

All you have to do is stop making terrible decisions. Ask for help. Heck, I'll help you. For free.

Just ask.

New submitter MeatoBurrito writes

Looks more like an angry fan than a journalist to me.

Tsig, on 01 September 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

For one, the author openly admitted that he's never played the game. He has no idea how the changes ACTUALLY affected the game. All he has is the word-of-mouth that whoever talked to him gave him. From the wording of the article, it looks to be some of the #SaveMWO crowd and it's already been shown they want this game to die.

For two, any time you write about a game, if you're going to have the gall to call yourself a journalist, then you'd better show some of the good points of the game too. The "Ghost Heat" he mentioned is supposed to be called "Heat Penalty" and, while it currently isn't represented in the game client itself, it's also helped to curb the massive boating problem we had prior to its implementation.

Cool Shot hasn't been an issue since it was actually put into the game. Not sure why this is even an issue anymore.

The "Forums" getting dissolved was for the best, since General Discussion turned into a Thread Dump where inane stuff was posted that really had nothing to do with MWO, or was just a place to dump your general hate of the game.

3rd Person View, the newest complaint of MWO. I'm still wondering if the people that complain about it, have actually used it and tried to be GOOD with it. If the only complaint they have is that it gives an unfair scouting advantage...ok. They can fix that. It's still a new feature, it's still being adjusted. So far, nothing gamebreaking, but we shall see.

the savemwo crowd is more like the killmwo crowd. I've read their document, there is nothing of value in it that actually makes 1 clear point, it's very unorganized jibberish and the clan numbers are highly inflated, and even then its a mere 1000 people, not exactly a huge number when you factor the 1.1 million registered users.

[Muffin Stump]

AlexEss, on 01 September 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

I know how sampling works...

I love how sampling works.