34 replies to this topic

[Team Leader]

This thread basically says it all:
http://mwomercs.com/...e__pid__2639356

I think the AC2 was wrongfully and pointlessly nerfed by the ghost heat patch, along with many other weapons.
Some speculation has come about as to why this happened. The major consensus is that it was done to stop macro "abuse", however this is a failure as you can suffer the ghost heat penalties without using a macro, and you get more DPS, as well as less damage spread using block firing. I believe the nerf should be removed as it hurts sustained DPS builds which were a counter to the high alpha gameplay and made one of the easiest to make and most popular Jaeger builds less viable.

Pros of macro:

• looks cool
  
• sounds cool
  
• dakka

Pros of normal firing:

• better DPS
  
• better damage focusing
  
• faster firing
  
• can sustain fire much longer

Clearly from this simple chart we can see that macros did not need a nerf as they only gimped the player using them in the first place.

Video (how to imbed?):
http://www.youtube.c...d&v=GLw7DqpEUwU

Edited by Team Leader, 01 September 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Deathlike]

Book of Paul said:

There are ghosts in the AC2.

[WarWrecker]

Youre ignoring the screen shake effect that some players experienced in the pros of macros. Or is that a con? Either way, some people didnt like it and got sick

[Team Leader]

WarWrecker, on 01 September 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Youre ignoring the screen shake effect that some players experienced in the pros of macros. Or is that a con? Either way, some people didnt like it and got sick

I dont think it was enough of an issue to list or to warrant nerfing. And if that was the case, they should have just reduced the impulse value for it instead of making the AC2 a bigger load of junk than it already.. was approaching, I guess. Since it was already kinda ok.

Edited by Team Leader, 01 September 2013 - 07:59 AM.

[Deathlike]

Book of Paul said:

I do not want to exercise exorcise the ghosts in AC2, for they create massive DPS!

Unknown PGI Sith Lord said:

The dakka is strong in this one.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 September 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[FerretGR]

AC2 already ran hot. This ghost heat business is garbage anyhow, but in this case, it's absolutely ridiculous.

[Bront]

The following weapons did not need alpha limits:
AC2 (They heat up fast enough already, and are heavy enough and ammo intensive enough to be problematic to boat anyway)
AC5 (Can't effectively boat enough, weight and ammo limits prevent it from being effective anyway)
UAC5 (Jamming mechanic already fixes boating issues with these)
SRM2 and SSRM2 (Mounting 6 SRM2s is less effective than 3 SRM4, and with damage spread, SSRM2 boating isn't very overpowered)
SL/SPL (No comment)
ML/MPL (Seriously, there are mechs in cannon designed to boat these, and the state of lasers makes them not too effective, and more than 6 heats up quite a bit anyway)
MGs (Again, no comment)


Now, I don't like ghost heat at all, but the above weapons don't need it in any way already, and if any of them have it (like MLs, SSRM2s), it's a crime against them.

The issue specifically with the AC2 is that it's refire rate on a "macro" (which can be done manually sans-macro easily by stager firing them and then firing the alpha group) is under the .5 second "alpha" sensor. The AC2 really should ignore that.

[Team Leader]

Bront, on 01 September 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

The following weapons did not need alpha limits:
AC2 (They heat up fast enough already, and are heavy enough and ammo intensive enough to be problematic to boat anyway)
AC5 (Can't effectively boat enough, weight and ammo limits prevent it from being effective anyway)
UAC5 (Jamming mechanic already fixes boating issues with these)
SRM2 and SSRM2 (Mounting 6 SRM2s is less effective than 3 SRM4, and with damage spread, SSRM2 boating isn't very overpowered)
SL/SPL (No comment)
ML/MPL (Seriously, there are mechs in cannon designed to boat these, and the state of lasers makes them not too effective, and more than 6 heats up quite a bit anyway)
MGs (Again, no comment)


Now, I don't like ghost heat at all, but the above weapons don't need it in any way already, and if any of them have it (like MLs, SSRM2s), it's a crime against them.

The issue specifically with the AC2 is that it's refire rate on a "macro" (which can be done manually sans-macro easily by stager firing them and then firing the alpha group) is under the .5 second "alpha" sensor. The AC2 really should ignore that.

I should make another poll huh

[Corbon Zackery]

I would like to say yes however, I just saw a Jager with 4 AC 2 rip through 4 mechs in a 7 on 12 game. Unless they plan on cutting down the rate of fire the AC 2 going to stay nerfed.

Its a long range 30mm cannon not a super-duper screen shake you to death weapon.

[pomomojo]

They nerfed it because a $30 mouse could make any player reasonably effective

[Kanatta Jing]

The AC 2 ghost heat is a bug. That's why they increased the cooldown rate to 0.52 seconds in the last patch, so the gun would stop triggering ghostheat.

Give them some more time and they'll figure out what they've done wrong.

A bug is not a nerf. It has to be debugged and not unnerfed.

[Team Leader]

Kanatta Jing, on 01 September 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

The AC 2 ghost heat is a bug. That's why they increased the cooldown rate to 0.52 seconds in the last patch, so the gun would stop triggering ghostheat.

Give them some more time and they'll figure out what they've done wrong.

A bug is not a nerf. It has to be debugged and not unnerfed.

That was their position initially. But after a few support tickets being sent in, they started to change their tune. Support began to call it an intended feature that they were "tweaking", even though ghost heat for ac2 is listed nowhere and it WAS a bug. So no, its a nerf right now to anyone who likes to stagger their fire.

[Deathlike]

Kanatta Jing, on 01 September 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

The AC 2 ghost heat is a bug. That's why they increased the cooldown rate to 0.52 seconds in the last patch, so the gun would stop triggering ghostheat.

Give them some more time and they'll figure out what they've done wrong.

A bug is not a nerf. It has to be debugged and not unnerfed.

I suggest you read the most recent AtD. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Also, .52 second cooldown doesn't actually fix the problem when you're doing math for the fast fire buffed cooldown... (.52 * .95 [cooldown factor] = .494).

Edited by Deathlike, 01 September 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[K1ttykat]

Its always been a hot weapon to use. The heat penalty is pretty minor so I don't see it as a big deal not considering the bug. People like to hate on the ac2 but I'd argue that its the best sustained damage weapon in the game and it completely overshadows the ac5.

[Abivard]

K1ttykat, on 01 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Its always been a hot weapon to use. The heat penalty is pretty minor so I don't see it as a big deal not considering the bug. People like to hate on the ac2 but I'd argue that its the best sustained damage weapon in the game and it completely overshadows the ac5.

Said the person who obviously hasn't used them since ghost heat.

[ElvenWarrior]

K1ttykat, on 01 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Its always been a hot weapon to use. The heat penalty is pretty minor so I don't see it as a big deal not considering the bug. People like to hate on the ac2 but I'd argue that its the best sustained damage weapon in the game and it completely overshadows the ac5.

The A/C2 does have the best DPS of all the autocannons, but at the drawbacks of high heat, lots of ammo required, and need for constant fire.

[SolCrusher]

What I got from a support ticket on it, as I played AC2 Jagers almost every night more than half my drops I'm completely bored out of my mind not hearing dakka dakka dakka. So I turned in a request asking about the AC2 and refunding my Overlord package. As far as AC2 are concerned and this is paraphrased:

They are working as intended. AC2 have a limit of firing 3 within .5 seconds which shouldn't invalidate and mech builds but it should limit their alpha strikes. The reason heat seems so extreme with these builds is because players seem to want to turn auto-cannons into machine guns.

[Bhael Fire]

What they need to do is put charge-up time on every weapon.

Then for high-powered weapons like PPCs, ACs and Gauss rifles, they need to implement a mechanic that requires the user to enter a 12-digit "captcha" code before they can fire the weapon.

I think that would balance the game really well.

[Team Leader]

SolCrusher, on 01 September 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

They are working as intended. AC2 have a limit of firing 3 within .5 seconds which shouldn't invalidate and mech builds but it should limit their alpha strikes. The reason heat seems so extreme with these builds is because players seem to want to turn auto-cannons into machine guns.

This is PGI re*ardacy at its finest. This doesnt do ANYTHING to alpha strikes, and in fact buffs them, while macros and people who like to stagger shots are unduly punished. If it was that much of a problem they should just have reduced the shake produced by the shots instead of invalidating a firing pattern "just cuz"

[Hexenhammer]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2692294

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 25 August 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

The AC2 is a little weird with the heat penalty system due to its high rate of fire which falls right below the heat penalty time threshold. With client-server magic it can be fickle.

I'm hoping that if there was something wrong, our testers would have picked up on it and i would have the bug report to work on.

I'll try it out on live see if i notice strangeness right now.




Here is what I think is happening.

Because we are confirming everything with the server the timing isn't always perfect.

Rapid firing an AC2 can make every shot gain in heat penalty without letting the heat penalty reset after 0.5s.
While if you fire them all off at once sometimes it will reset.