26 replies to this topic

[Colin Thrase]

Maybe there are players that know this already, but since I haven't seen it while spectating I'm assuming it isn't common knowledge:

If you see the flashing hoverbot above a 3PV player, but you don't see the 3PV player himself (because he's behind a ridge, in the canyon map for example), you can still fire LRMs on him. LRMs do not require a lock - you can aim your targeting reticle ( the O or + depending on where the LRMs are mounted) on the ground where you assume he's standing so as to send your missiles at that spot. If the player doesn't move, odds are he's going to take some splash damage when they hit. I have done this multiple times now and when the mech appears I see his paper-doll indicates he has taken some damage.

I'm not suggesting singling out 3PV players or anything like that, especially when there are other available targets you can lock - but it has been my observation in matches that you get at least one 3PV player on the opposing side, and generally they just sit behind a ridge or obstacle. I'm assuming they're feeding information to the other players on their team ("guys, go through the cave they're all in the water right now"). This is a good way to flush them out. If they're dodging your missiles, they aren't ratting out your positions to their teammates.

Just curious: Do any of you in the higher skill brackets see 3PV players? According to my profile stats, my win/loss ratio is 0.93, so I'm assuming that I'm a below average player and that's why I'm seeing 3PV players consistently. I am hoping that with consistent practice I can raise my Elo score in order to play against more skilled pilots that also play 1st person. I was disappointed when 3PV was implemented, but not terribly so because I assumed it would mainly be new players that used it. I was even more dissapointed to find out my skills are such that I'm playing in the 'new player' bracket.

[Colin Thrase]

Just an afterthought - you can also do this to a light mech hiding behind the cap tower. That's actually when I started using this strategy (long before 3PV was introduced).

[Ace Selin]

It also works on shutdown or overheated mechs, so you can kill them using LRMS when you cant lock on. As for 3PV you definitely get advantage in this mode for close in fights versus missiles/flamers/AC which rock or obscure normal view mode. Sadly 3PV makes returning fire much more easier in these situations.

[KrazedOmega]

I rarely see 3PV used in matches I'm in. The only time I do see it is when people use it to look at the battlefield while behind cover. Unless I just missed it I don't think I've ever see it being used while in a firefight.

They should remove the ability to switch modes while in game, then I think I would be ok with it.

[Kanatta Jing]

If they removed the ability to switch modes then new pilots would never ween off of it.

[rollermint]

What are suggested in the OP are just bandaid solutions. I'd imagined that in competitive levels, the team that exploit 3PV to the max will always be at significant advantage. 3PV is also being used while in cover behind a building, theres no way the other guy can see the drone then. Some players took it a step further, by using 3PV + building cover to shoot at enemy while only exposing the arm. I have used that tactic myself and its very very effective at dealing damage to an enemy while minimising return fire to your own mech. You simply cannot do that in 1PV.

There are various videos that perfectly illustrate how powerful a tool 3PV is, overpowering in fact, if the other side chooses not to exploit it.

The problem really isn't particularly in 3PV itself, its the forced mixing of the two modes. PGI can stand to win a HUGE amount of goodwill (and much increased influx of money, I'm sure) if they would simply allow us to choose which mode to play in. Everyone would be in a rather happy place.

But no, they thought its better to infuriate a huge portion of their playerbase, particularly the Founders that gave them 5 million, by forcing mixed qs. I simply don't understand PGI's stubborness in this matter.

[Kanatta Jing]

rollermint, on 31 August 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

There are various videos that perfectly illustrate how powerful a tool 3PV is, overpowering in fact, if the other side chooses not to exploit it.

Link please as this is the first I have heard of this.

[Moriquendi86]

In my honest opinion using 3PV is 100% valid tactics for scouting. Yes you can see over the obstacles but you can also be seen. This is not by any stretch of imagination an "I win button", you need to know maps well to peak correctly, you need to relay this information to the team and the team needs to use those information correctly in order to win. Other team can also notice that they are observed and adapt their strategy. So in the end correct usage of 3PV can benefit one team but only very skilled team of good players vs less skilled team. No noob team will ever win game just because they used 3PV.

Thats why this mode adds another layer to competitive matches, they should be all about teamplay, scouting and positioning not who have highest alpha or can headshoot nicely. If this game is to be actual simulator we need tools like 3PV for good intelligence gathering, otherwise it will just stay as sniperferst or change into brawling rush with people just rushing forward shooting first target they see and hoping they will not die.

PS: all who knows a little about the military, know how important intel is. Real war is all about seeing enemy without taking a risk, thats why they have satellites and drones. Even AH-64 Apache Longbow variant which have radar placed over rotor so it can "peak" over the hills without showing whole helicopter, which is pretty much same as we have in 3PV.

PS2: I'm not a scout, I'm to noob for that.

PS3: yes PGI communication and broken promises were a fiasco, so what? It doesn't mean that it can't make game better.

[rollermint]

Kanatta Jing, on 01 September 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Link please as this is the first I have heard of this.

[Kanatta Jing]

That is more the power of coms and the ignorance of the enemy team.

They freely wandered around in view and while interested in the blinking birdy no one tried to line up their shots for when he popped over the ridge. Despite the fact that they would have known exactly where he was going to pop up.

[Rushyo]

Quote

Just curious: Do any of you in the higher skill brackets see 3PV players?

I don't think I've ever seen a 3PV. I suspect I'm not in a low-skill bracket (at least, I'd really hope not).

Quote

According to my profile stats, my win/loss ratio is 0.93, so I'm assuming that I'm a below average player and that's why I'm seeing 3PV players consistently.

Note that the Not-actually-Elo rating isn't based on win/loss. In fact, it's designed to make your win/loss converge on 1.0, which mine is (exactly), regardless of your skill level. Annoying; but that's another thread.

Quote

If this game is to be actual simulator we need tools like 3PV for good intelligence gathering

Part of the MechWarrior theme is that once you're in the 'Mech you're pretty much confined to whatever tools it has on-board, information wise. Intel is primarily supposed to be visual. It's a 'Mech simulator, not a modern vehicular warfare simulation. This is an age where technology has degenerated to such a degree that even rudimentary C3 systems are prizes worth fighting over. If you reduce getting your intel to a deus ex machina button-click it sort of goes against the themes and assumptions of the universe and the game. It makes it a poorer 'Mech simulation.

Edited by Rushyo, 01 September 2013 - 05:13 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The funny thing is...and PGI admitted this in their posts...3PV sucks.

They huddled up and said "We're going to split the queue's for this?!", because no one would bother using the 3PV queue.

The thing is, while 3PV does suck, the fact that you can switch in and out of it at will lets you use it's one and only major advantage.

The expanded field of view.

What PGI should have done is created a situation where 3PV was turned on for the first 15 games of a new account (and actually make it so the player can see his legs), then had it as an option for the next 10 games. Then after the first 25 games you are in 1PV.

But PGI is dumb.

[Mystere]

As I have mentioned in other threads, 3PV should be seamlessly integrated into the Information Warfare aspect of the game (check my sig for some ideas). It can then be a core feature of the game that is available to all. But if the so-called "hardcore elites" really insist, then let them have their 1PV-only 12 vs. 12 matches.

And before I forget, there is no competitive scene in MWO, none, nada, nil, zip, zilch. It is all imagined.

Edited by Mystere, 01 September 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[King Curt]

You know what else 3PV does?

It allows you to make way cooler screenshots and movies!

Seriously ( well it does ), I was an extremely loud detractor of 3PV when rumors fluttered about it coming into the game. For all the reasons everyone's freaking out about. The way PGI implemented it I think is brilliant. It is not a huge advantage, it is a minor one with limits and penalties. I was entirely set to hate 3PV when it appeared and raise the pitchforks -- until I stumbled around in my mech while trying it. To me it feels weird. It allows me a little better view over an obstacle while giving away my position, while simultaneously supplying me with a bit of vertigo. It wasn't long before I couldn't remember my reasons for being against 3PV. I adapted. I survived. And now I even like the poor little 3PV bot who is so cute and just wants to be loved!

The vocal minority of spoiled brats who are using their money and connections to raise a stink over a cute little 3PV bot are not good people, and that's The King's Opinion. And in some parts around here that's as good as law.

[Relic1701]

King Curt, on 01 September 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

and that's The King's Opinion. And in some parts around here that's as good as law.

Liked just for this line

[Raso]

Sometimes I'll use it to peek around corners or over ridges but I do not like how it restricts my arm movement. Zooming in first person also seems to give you more zoom so there is a reason to stay in FPV for that.

One thing I have noticed, however. The 3PV UAV is a solid object. I was firing at one of my friend's UAV to see if it could be destroyed and nailed it with several full on salvos from 4 medium lasers and it just kept on buzzing. This makes me wonder if it could be exploited as a shield in some manner. With proper positioning could one use a 3PV UAV to deflect a portion of LRM or even attacks from a higher elevation?

For that reason I think the UAV needs to be made into something you can destroy or to not be a solid object.

[Team Leader]

Uh... if theyre behind a hill you can target the ground they standing on... and you also wouldnt be able to see their paper doll flash. Nice try but this doesnt even make sense. We need split queues.

[Donnie Silveray]

My KD is 1.76 and winloss is about 1.15, I haven't seen a single 3PV in a brawl nor have I seen a single blinking light on the enemy team or anyone trying to peak. I've only seen people use 3PV on my team at the start of the match or 1/3 the way in before a major engagement starts. I might have seen a teammate try to 'peek' one time but that was during the 1/3 timeframe when either team were at significant standoff distance under their own cover 1000m away at the least. So peaking in that instance wouldn't do any scout any good as the vast majority of the enemy team would be hidden.

So in standard play I don't see the feature being used at all in most circumstances, least in my bracket. I often use it just to mess around before a match and to oogle at my mech's animation and fight in 1PV since I use my arm movements so much that I cannot hope to fight without it. Don't like arm lock.

Those are my observations.

What I want from the game is, although it'd require a separate queue, is a dedicated 3rd person queue where it is generally mandatory to play in the mode while also having a dedicated 1pv queue. All 'disadvantages' on 3PV would be unlocked and free to use as nobody can switch modes. I would play this mode as much as the 1pv queue as I love seeing my mech from the outside, I'd love it even more if it was viable in combat.

[Escef]

The blinking red light on the 3PV drone has given away enemy locations several times. More than once a distant enemy was all but invisible against the background, but I noticed the blinking light and started looking for the mech. And when I found it I tossed long range fire at it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Mystere, on 01 September 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

And before I forget, there is no competitive scene in MWO, none, nada, nil, zip, zilch. It is all imagined.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm, but it's absolutely correct.

PGI's antics have forced out a lot of the competitive groups and the lack of lobbies has further exacerbated it.

Shows how many issues the game has.