16 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Stock mode can we get it?
Stock mode should we have it.
Just the basic weapons a mech comes with straight out the box.
Stock mode we need it.

[Sybreed]

stock mode is something I'd really like to play, but PGI needs to rework their heat system a little. We would spend most of our time cooling off and whatnot...

[Deathlike]

I wouldn't play stock and would hate it.

With that said, I know there's a minority that would play it, if for a change of pace. Plus, it would allow newbies to play with other people in the same "hindrance" that is the stock/trial mech. Only the superior stock builds would screw this up, but it would kinda "even the playing field" for the newbie.

Strangely, I don't think PGI would ever consider this, given the characteristics of the potential favorability of stock mode. It's not a complicated concept, and it wouldn't require significant resources to "get it working".

[Mcgral18]

I'd like a game mode which either doesn't allow DHS, or has a hard cap of 30 or 40 for heat threshold.

The most fearsome thing would be a dual gauss, which has it's own limiations.

Stock mode would be similar, but armor values would make them pretty quick as well. When they nerfed the MLs, stock mechs became way too hot, in most cases.

[General Taskeen]

MPBT 3025 was stock I believe. I recall that people had a blast with that.

And yes people want a 'stock' option. The more options for players, the better I think.

There are a few ways they could implement it:

- Automatic: Anytime you select a Trial Mech (not a 'champion) or you select any Mech in your bay that is default (unchanged) the matchmaker does a check (basic programming - If mech is "stock", match with other players with "stock").
- Lobby Options: Selectable options for a match creator in a lobby system (such as 'stock only' or an alternate 'limited customization')
- A game mode that you select and launch into.


As a whole, certain stock Mechs are also hampered by poor balance of heat sinks and/or lackluster unbalanced weapons or equipment. For example, CBT builds that were close to 'heat neutratlity' are quite the opposite in the game. ECM negates the use of LRMs, which its not supposed to (only reduces Artemis accuracy), etc.

And in context, if things were balanced better, like the above mentioned, a stock Mech vs. other stock Mechs would produce fairly even and probably prolonged battles (for example, most light Mechs are similar range in speed and have low armor at stock).

Edited by General Taskeen, 02 September 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Novakaine]

No DHS just straight standard HS up.
It would kill that burn hot and die mentality.
Not to mention a change in tactics.
Alpha at your peril.

Edited by Novakaine, 02 September 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[Fuzzbox]

A stock mode would be great fun, especially if limited to only 3025 'Mechs.
I can understand PGI don't want to split the queues without having a bigger player base, but enabling this in 12v12 should not be a showstopper.

[General Taskeen]

Novakaine, on 02 September 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

No DHS just straight standard up.

Some stock mechs have DHS. So what matters most is if PGI will attempt to rebalance heat sinks so most of all, SHS aren't so terrible in comparison to DHS. MW3/4/LL, all they did was have heat sinks that dissipated heat and did not raise the threshold.

[Wolfways]

I'd prefer that stock mechs were viable in normal games than had their own separate queue. But with the terrible heat system MWO has it wouldn't be worth playing even if stock mechs had their own queue.

[Sidekick]

Repost from other threads:

You will not get a stock queue. The target demographic isn´t demanding it.

On a realistic side:

Economically speaking, a stock queue would be benificial for PGI. And not because the "fans want it" aspect.

See MWO as a game. Right now, we have a "deckbuilding" mechanic, you add items and feats to your hand (mech) to aquire a special build. Aquiring these feats is essential, to gain effectivenes you need to pour money into your inventory. Certain decks are effective, others are not. So to be effective, you need to assemble a certain value. If you have a small selection of mechs and a large selection of equipment, you can build most decks, adapting to most metagame changes.

If you take the "building" aspect out of it, you are limiting yourself to a role playing game. You choose a specific charakter. You get this charakter and change only little features (modules). So, to adapt to the metagame, you don´t change a weapon, an engine or a module... you need to aquire another mech.
Sounds expensive? Wait and see.
This mech needs Mechbays. MC only.
You need to play and level the "bad" builds to gain higher skill tiers, making the bonus XP of premium time more valuable.

To balance this, a battle value system would be established, balancing teams not by weight, but by BV. So... playing a bad mech (with poor BV) to nerf the overall strength of the enemy team is important. So, you need to keep a mechbay for a bad mech, just in case. Or several, depending on your tactical choice.

See? The inventory is unlimited. The abilities you bring into battle are limited by your inventory. If a Stock queue would be established, PGI could quickly discouver how expensive this game could get. New mechs mit favorable layouts would become "must buy" instead of "nice to have". Hero Mechs.... good grief, a list of issues.

The game shifts with every patch, every new map, every new balancing round. Stock-Only would turn this change into "my mech was fine, neet to tune it a tad" into "Wow, my mech was good, now it´s utterly garbage"

You ask for a stock mode. I wonder: If we get this, what hells would this imply.

[Corvus Antaka]

This is one of the intents of the so called "ghost heat" system.

In all previous titles, non-stock mechs dominated stock mechs, thus we created separate gamemodes to play stock vs stock in example.

Since boats in MWO now take severe heat penalties when taking only 1 type of weapon system, stock mechs or "upgraded" stock mechs now remain viable as well, each with their own benefits and drawbacks.

for example, an ac/20 boat can fire a 40 alpha and place all damage on 1 spot, but takes a heat penalty in doing so. OR, a skillfull pilot can chainfire the ac/20 to negate the heat penalty, but in return must place 2 successive shots on 1 spot on the enemy mech.

Wheres a more mixed "stock" mech, does not suffer these heat penalties.

Given the MMO nature of the game, this solution keeps all mechwarriors fighting together while eliminating the need to have "stock, c0, c1, c6, etc gamemodes" to separate various types of builds and curb overpowered builds.

[Earl White]

Not enough players to split the queues anymore, hell I think it's even risky to have a separate "hardcore" queue, especially with faction/community warfare coming soon (that will be another queue most likely).

[Novakaine]

Sidekick, on 02 September 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Repost from other threads:

You will not get a stock queue. The target demographic isn´t demanding it.

On a realistic side:

Economically speaking, a stock queue would be benificial for PGI. And not because the "fans want it" aspect.

See MWO as a game. Right now, we have a "deckbuilding" mechanic, you add items and feats to your hand (mech) to aquire a special build. Aquiring these feats is essential, to gain effectivenes you need to pour money into your inventory. Certain decks are effective, others are not. So to be effective, you need to assemble a certain value. If you have a small selection of mechs and a large selection of equipment, you can build most decks, adapting to most metagame changes.

If you take the "building" aspect out of it, you are limiting yourself to a role playing game. You choose a specific charakter. You get this charakter and change only little features (modules). So, to adapt to the metagame, you don´t change a weapon, an engine or a module... you need to aquire another mech.
Sounds expensive? Wait and see.
This mech needs Mechbays. MC only.
You need to play and level the "bad" builds to gain higher skill tiers, making the bonus XP of premium time more valuable.

To balance this, a battle value system would be established, balancing teams not by weight, but by BV. So... playing a bad mech (with poor BV) to nerf the overall strength of the enemy team is important. So, you need to keep a mechbay for a bad mech, just in case. Or several, depending on your tactical choice.

See? The inventory is unlimited. The abilities you bring into battle are limited by your inventory. If a Stock queue would be established, PGI could quickly discouver how expensive this game could get. New mechs mit favorable layouts would become "must buy" instead of "nice to have". Hero Mechs.... good grief, a list of issues.

The game shifts with every patch, every new map, every new balancing round. Stock-Only would turn this change into "my mech was fine, neet to tune it a tad" into "Wow, my mech was good, now it´s utterly garbage"

You ask for a stock mode. I wonder: If we get this, what hells would this imply.

Ya just killed the fun ya know that don't ya.

[General Taskeen]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 02 September 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

information

And yet, Pada, the 'ghost heat' does not suddenly make a stock Mech even average, at best, vs. a high efficiency 'custom' build.

There are two kinds of players. The first is the player who has been used to Mech Warrior having full customization and wanting to play with various builds they thought up themselves, or others that prefer extreme high efficiency. The second kinds of players are those that want to have an option to play with Classic Battle Tech (like MPBT 3025) with no customization or limited customization, etc.

The second group of players that want more classic setups can get easily frustrated by not only poorly balanced mechanics in the game, but being forced to play in matches where a classic setup is going to have work twice as hard to even survive. And that is the main issue - it frustrates that type of player, because they have 0 choice and must play against a custom Mech, which ruins the immersion and makes it way more difficulty to play. A stock 118 km/h Jenner for example can not survive against a fully armored 300XL Jenner.

In context it is almost the same as someone who wants to play in a 1PV match only, for that type of immersion, but can't and are forced into a non-realism mode.

I still so no problem with them implementing either automatic match making to check if your build is "stock" and send you directly into matches with other players who do the same, lobby system options, or a game mode that you launch into.

Edited by General Taskeen, 02 September 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

General Taskeen, on 02 September 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

And yet, Pada, the 'ghost heat' does not suddenly make a stock Mech even average, at best, vs. a high efficiency 'custom' build.

There are two kinds of players. The first is the player who has been used to Mech Warrior having full customization and wanting to play with various builds they thought up themselves, or others that prefer extreme high efficiency. The second kinds of players are those that want to have an option to play with Classic Battle Tech (like MPBT 3025) with no customization or limited customization, etc.

The second group of players that want more classic setups can get easily frustrated by not only poorly balanced mechanics in the game, but being forced to play in matches where a classic setup is going to have work twice as hard to even survive. And that is the main issue - it frustrates that type of player, because they have 0 choice and must play against a custom Mech, which ruins the immersion and makes it way more difficulty to play. A stock 118 km/h Jenner for example can not survive against a fully armored 300XL Jenner.

In context it is almost the same as someone who wants to play in a 1PV match only, for that type of immersion, but can't and are forced into a non-realism mode.

I still so no problem with them implementing either automatic match making to check if your build is "stock" and send you directly into matches with other players who do the same, lobby system options, or a game mode that you launch into.

imho the only way stock would be viable is as a solaris type "tournament options"

I do agree with you and see your point - and I too would like to see a pure stock gamemode - but it must work within the MMO universe of CW that is coming, and as part of that universe instead of creating a seperate "Stock only" que in my opinion.

[Riptor]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 02 September 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

imho the only way stock would be viable is as a solaris type "tournament options"

I do agree with you and see your point - and I too would like to see a pure stock gamemode - but it must work within the MMO universe of CW that is coming, and as part of that universe instead of creating a seperate "Stock only" que in my opinion.

Your post... sense it makes not.

A stock only mode would be as viable as any other mode and actually be more canon then the almost full customisation we have now. Furthermore it would give players a choice.

The only reason i can see why there is no stock only mode is because Devs might theorize that a good chunk of players would stop buying equipment and thus not spend money on premium time asmuch since they only need to purchase the initial mech once, without the need to spend more on it for customisation.

Just because you wouldnt play the mode doesnt make it suddenly "not viable"

Customisation was put into the mechwarrior games because they where single player focused with multyplayer as an attached afterthought that was never meant to be anything bigger then deathmatch.

With stock only mechs you would atleast have some resemblance of uniqueness on some of the machines and not the 1-2 cooky cutter builds per mech that are all the rage now. Also it would give new players a mode where they wont get their ***** kicked because everyone is allready decked out kept for them.

Also no one would ***** at them for showing up in a stock or trial mech to a "real" mech fight.

[Corwin Maxwell]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 02 September 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

imho the only way stock would be viable is as a solaris type "tournament options"

This is what the game is right now and has been for over 2 years, the game went from being designed as a 1st person Sim shooter to a Battletech/Mechwarrior themed League of Legends MOBA.