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Different Group-Shooting Mechanic


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#1 Lex Peregrine

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:27 AM

I believe the current heat-scale system to help limit high alpha usage is helping, but in my opinion its not the most logical system. Why would firing 3 PPCs in less than half a second cause that much more heat than firing 2 and waiting half a second to fire another?

I have a different ideia that believe to be somewhat more logical, though the effect may not be as extreme, it should at least prevent large numbers of weapons being fired at the same time and make people think a little on how they should fire their weapons.

So imagine how the engine supplies power to the weapons around the mech's body, imagine how some weapons require more power than others, imagine the engine not being able to cope with the requirements of sending energy to all body parts (or almost) at once.

Lets suppose an engine is perfectly capable to sending the required energy to fire two PPCs, but its not just the engine that should be in the equation, but also the cabling and stuff between engine and weapon. So lets say an Awesome fires its torso PPCs, one is in the left, the other is in the right, the engine can handle it, both PPCs fire at the same time, no delay. Now lets say the awesome fires the arm ppc along with the torso, the energy route from engine to right arm is stressed due to ppc fire in right torso, extra heat caused by that, as well as delay in right arm ppc. (on a side note, I would sugest quirk to be added to the awesome to be allowed to fire all 3 ppcs without penalty due to chassis design feature, extra cabling or whatever, the awesome needs some love).

Another example, the Jaggermech with dual AC20 fit, big weapon should require more energy, firing two of them without penalty should only be allowed for bigger engines, and the Jagger shouldnt be able to have the required engine along with two AC20 due to not enough tonnage. So in this case, firing both AC20s should not necessarily cause extra heat as the power goes along different routes (unless you think of engine stress) but will cause firing delay of one of them, ammount of delay should depend on size of engine and its power output (PGI im sure could come up with some math and formula for this :) ).

Yet another example, you have a Raven with AC20? You probably cut on the engine to be able to mount that uber weapon on such a small mech. You fire the weapon, even although its just one, engine is not powerfull enough and becomes stressed, get a fire delay for that single shot you took, oops you missed the target.

Lets keep'em comming:

Hunchback 4P, all those medium lasers and a crapy engine, well the medium lasers dont take that much energy, arm ones would fire fine, but some of the torso ones would be delayed if fired all at once, and extra heat due to stress.

Stalker with 6 LL, 2 in each arm and 1 each torso, firing both LL of one arm would cause stress and delay, 1 from each location might be able to handle it, possibly depending on engine capability, not sure if that fit requires smaller engine.

I think part of the idea here is to influence people to make smaller weapon groups and fire them with some interval, or have high alphas cause extra heat AND weapon fire delay to mess up the pin-point fire.

#2 HammerSwarm

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:28 AM

View PostLex Peregrine, on 02 September 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Spoiler



How would you communicate this information to the player? How would you show new mech pilots what is going on? how would it show in the mechlab?

#3 Lex Peregrine

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:46 AM

View PostHammerSwarm, on 06 September 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:


How would you communicate this information to the player? How would you show new mech pilots what is going on? how would it show in the mechlab?


Caring too much about making the game as simple as possible for new pilot's sake is the reason the game is going downhill!

But really, do you have any feedback on your screen that explains where the extra heat is comming from when you fire 3 PPCs with the current system?

At least my idea has some logic behind it, something they could one day translate to some kind of visual information.
And in the mechlab you could have some new info, power output of an engine and power requirements of a weapon, smart people would understand the effect.

Edited by Lex Peregrine, 06 September 2013 - 08:46 AM.


#4 HammerSwarm

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

View PostLex Peregrine, on 06 September 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:


Caring too much about making the game as simple as possible for new pilot's sake is the reason the game is going downhill!

But really, do you have any feedback on your screen that explains where the extra heat is comming from when you fire 3 PPCs with the current system?

At least my idea has some logic behind it, something they could one day translate to some kind of visual information.
And in the mechlab you could have some new info, power output of an engine and power requirements of a weapon, smart people would understand the effect.



I'm not trying to be a {Richard Cameron}, I'm just asking questions :D

Ghost heat is terrible in part because there is no way to communicate to the player what is going on. So if for instance my 2 A/Cs are working properly, or if my 4 A/Cs are ghosting me to death.That is part of the problem that there is no way to intuitively explain how ghost heat is because it's so arbitrary.

For instance, I fire a weapon it heats up, I fire two the heat is doubled, I fire three and my mech starts on fire...wahhhhh?! Ghost heat is bad for that reason.

I like your idea about wiring and positions, I just wanted to find out if you had any ideas about communicating it to new players. like a warning flash that you're using too much power, or a power gauge. Cars have fuel gauges because people wanna know when they're likely to run out of gas, my mech should have an indicator for anything important that I could run out of.

#5 Lex Peregrine

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

Yea I read you :(

and as I said, I like your idea as well as I find it way better than the current system.

But dont think there's much interest in this, we're the only two guys talking here :(

Agree there should be a visual feedback of the stuff affecting heat, something to think about!

#6 RandomLurker

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:39 PM

It would be better to address weapon convergence and pinpoint aiming, the source of the alpha problem in the first place. Then Ghost Heat or anything like it would become unnecessary.

#7 Lex Peregrine

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:15 AM

View PostRandomLurker, on 06 September 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

It would be better to address weapon convergence and pinpoint aiming, the source of the alpha problem in the first place. Then Ghost Heat or anything like it would become unnecessary.


You have a point there!
If there were no pin-point alphas due to convergeance or cone-of-fire issues, there would be no need for ghost heat solutions.





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