833 replies to this topic

[Silverlance]

wobbles3285, on 03 September 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

The PPC and ERPPC changes you added are just plain stupid and make the game less enjoyable. The PPC and ERPPC had already been very. very under-powered and now they are essentially worthless. The slowing of the round makes hitting with them at the ranges they are designed for near impossible, and the fact they do NO DAMAGE at close range is just made up BS not at all in line with the actual source material. Why do you keep screwing things up? Just make the frickin game and watch how people play it. Don't ruin things because you have nothing better to do. If you feel like you need something to occupy your idle hands, how about destructible environments and an economy similar to the first and most beloved version of this franchise?

Like you told me once in a match before against you: "L2P and get better noob. QQ moar."

[Wintersdark]

wobbles3285, on 03 September 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

The PPC and ERPPC changes you added are just plain stupid and make the game less enjoyable. The PPC and ERPPC had already been very. very under-powered and now they are essentially worthless. The slowing of the round makes hitting with them at the ranges they are designed for near impossible, and the fact they do NO DAMAGE at close range is just made up BS not at all in line with the actual source material. Why do you keep screwing things up? Just make the frickin game and watch how people play it. Don't ruin things because you have nothing better to do. If you feel like you need something to occupy your idle hands, how about destructible environments and an economy similar to the first and most beloved version of this franchise?

wait, what?

The PPC did no damage at close range in the source material. Sure, the field inhibitor could be disabled to great risk to the firing mech, but in normal use, it absolutely had a minimum range. The ERPPC didn't, and still doesn't.

But... PPC and ERPPC were underpowered? Seriously? What game have you been playing these last few months? Here in MWO PPC's have been the most commonly equipped weapon period for some time, and this PPC meta has been what really pushed the whole pinpoint alpha problem into the limelight, and what really drove the Ghost Heat system's design.

Good lord.

I can accept arguments that they weren't necessarily overpowered - they are and where just fine as sniper weapons, but the problem was they were also extremely good brawling weapons. This meant, in a sniper vs. brawler battle:

Sniper dominates at long range, does lots of damage to Brawler. Brawler does no appreciable damage to sniper. Brawler closes range.... and sniper still does crushing damage with no downsides.

Now, Sniper dominates at long range, Brawler dominates at short range. This is pretty much exactly as it should be.

Of course, there are also other options - midrange ballistics, large lasers, to build a "takes all comers" mech. Not as strong a sniper, or as potent a brawler, but able to deal damage effectively at all ranges.

Before this patch, you'd build a mech by tacking on a pair of PPC's first, then whatever else.

[Ronan]

wobbles3285, on 03 September 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

The PPC and ERPPC changes you added are just plain stupid and make the game less enjoyable. The PPC and ERPPC had already been very. very under-powered and now they are essentially worthless. The slowing of the round makes hitting with them at the ranges they are designed for near impossible, and the fact they do NO DAMAGE at close range is just made up BS not at all in line with the actual source material. Why do you keep screwing things up? Just make the frickin game and watch how people play it. Don't ruin things because you have nothing better to do. If you feel like you need something to occupy your idle hands, how about destructible environments and an economy similar to the first and most beloved version of this franchise?

Wait wait wait. I thought PPCs were OP? Now they're UP? Can someone please put up a page that tracks the over/under on weapons? I can't keep track.</snark>

I think this sort of post is exactly the gauge PGI uses to judge weapon balance. Has nothing to do with the weapons. They scan the forums, and if the QQ about OP is in line with the QQ about UP, they call it good. (Ok, maybe my snark is done now...) ( maybe not )

[artem1244]

игра от патча к патчу все хуже и хуже уважемые разработчики перестаньте слушать нытье игроков !!! после сегодняшнего патча даже в игру заходить не хочется и поверьте это не только мое личное мнение

[Autobot9000]

Nice to see the Orion, cheers! We will absolutely need the Marauder too, please do it! The Marauder is one the most iconic IS battlemechs of all time!

SRM buffs for 2s and 4s are logical and good. I am very glad, that you chose to work on both game mechanics+lore when considering the Gauss change. Changes that account for both (lore/reasoning plus game mechanic) are far less cheesy. But now, that you've done this, you can give the Gauss rifle a standard health, buffing it to 5 is cute, how about 15? It doesn't make sense, that the Gauss rifle is particularly fracturable. It is a dumb electric device, that fires metal slugs and the balance change does the job now anyway - no reason for cheesy health anymore.

The heat for the PPCs is fine now. It is the BattleTech standard heat for them. No reason to whine about it. But now that you've come to reason about the PPC just go and get rid of the obscure and cheesy heat scale system, that is so unlogical, complicated and inexplicable to anyone. It represents an arbitrary and dull penalty system, that is merely a placeholder for a real mechanic in game.

Good to see also, that you're working on the game's stability. Keep up the work!

[Wintersdark]

Dart Nimrod, on 03 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Happy Patch Day! Congratulations: last playable build was brutally murdered by PGI. Thank you very much, suckers, who yelling and bitching about "those horrible old masters". Your noisy complaints successfully drags this game to the abyss of absurd.

LOL!

Nerf the strongest build and that means there's no playable builds at all anymore? Your logic is unassailable! I surrender!

If only nerfing the strongest build made all the other myriads of builds better in comparison. Alas, clearly, that is not the case. Everything just sucks all at once now.

[Kunae]

artem12456, on 03 September 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

game from patch to patch worse uvazhemye developers stop listening to whining players! Even after today's patch, the game does not want to go and believe me it's not just my personal opinion

Rough translation

[Jakob Knight]

Grugore, on 03 September 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Quit your whining! People were boating these rediculous PPC/ERPPC builds and annhiling people left and right. It's about time they jacked the heat up on them. Those are tabletop values, btw. And It doesn't kill sniping. Just makes it so that brawlers actually have a chance. Good job, PGI.

Unfortunately, while the values are TT, the heat system in use is not. A stock AWS-8Q in the TT could alpha-strike with it's 3 standard PPCs for quite some time before it encountered serious heat conditions, whereas in MWO, the heat system in use makes it likely it will shut down from heat after only 1 or 2 salvos. And thats a non-modified mech this game was meant to be built to simulate accurately (no customization).

As for killing people left and right, aside from the obvious answer that that's what those designs should be doing (heavy support mechs are supposed to do heavy damage), I suspect much of this was because the mechs they were destroying were not piloted by very smart pilots. I've piloted my CN9 mech in close to employ it's AC/20 without dying to any such mech in almost every engagement I've fought in, so if people would simply avoid making themselves a target until they were in their own weapons' range (and actually know what that is in some cases), I believe the number of deaths by pilot error would be down quite a bit more.

Regardless, this is the battlefield. Adapt or die. That's the final answer in any combat environment.

[Kunae]

Jakob Knight, on 03 September 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Unfortunately, while the values are TT, the heat system in use is not. A stock AWS-8Q in the TT could alpha-strike with it's 3 standard PPCs for quite some time before it encountered serious heat conditions

And you can too, if you limit yourself to firing every 10 seconds, just like TT.

[Sug]

artem12456, on 03 September 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

игра от патча к патчу все хуже и хуже уважемые разработчики перестаньте слушать нытье игроков !!! после сегодняшнего патча даже в игру заходить не хочется и поверьте это не только мое личное мнение

This guy gets it.

[Redshift2k5]

Ellen Ripley, on 03 September 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Totally overnerfed sniping.

This patch just killed the (ER) PPC:
- Bump of base heat for both PPCs
- reduction of projectile speed
- PPC damage under 90m has been reduced to 0
You effectively reversed every buff for PPCs since closed beta
PPCs are back to closed beta levels aka. ERs are unusable and standard are actually even worse now with the removal of damage below 90m

The balance wasn't far off prior to this patch, a little buff for brawling and then sniping as well as brawling would have been equally viable.

Instead you decided to kill sniping and make brawling the way to play.


I don't understand why you are not aiming at making both playstyles viable at the same time. If you in fact did aim for that, then you failed horribly - again.


You don't hit a waepon system with 3 big nerfs in one patch guys, you just don't.
When people asked for more frequent game balance changes, gradual & small adjustments where meant, not the biggest sledgehammer you could possibly come up with.

They were buffed in the first [place because of poor HSR. Once HSR fixes were in, PPCs were suddenly tn times better than they were.

Try playing with the new heat for at least a few days before you cry "over nerf". fire fewer shots and make them count.

[BossTek]

Coralld, on 03 September 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Lets see...

Hinder PPC+Gauss alpha meta: Check

All that's left on my list is better MM so that one team is no longer lopsided by 500+tons, and make it so 3PV acts like the 3PV in WoT, if you can't see some one in 1PV then you shouldn't be able to see them in 3PV.

PGI, you do these last two things and I will once again spend money.

100% Totally agree with you on this.


This is totally off topic, but the BossTek Army would love to play with you guys sometime. Please let us know by contacting us via email, or through Facebook. Thanks bud! Also, if you were interested we were thinking of having a MWO Launch day thing here at the BossTek HQ. Okay off Mission Beach to get our tans on !!

Best,

Chris

Edited by BossTek, 03 September 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Ngamok]

Butane9000, on 03 September 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Did you even read what I typed and the notes Kunae? The C-bill versions are coming next Tuesday. The launch patch is the following week. Meaning we're possibly getting another mech on the 17th?

What?

The Orion Standard variants will be available for MC on the 10th and for C-bills on the 17th.

[Keyman1848]

This patch is a big weapon nerf. Did you really need to make several changes to PPCs at once? Why not make one adjustment and see how it goes? if this turns out to be too extreme what do you change? PPCS and ERPPCs were not this terribly unbalanced. Remember, Awesomes were designed to shoot 3 PPCs at once.

The Gauss nerf- Do we really need to charge up the Gauss like a "Super Soaker" squirt gun? Why not provide a choice like the bay doors for LRMs? You can have it charged up all the time at the risk of greater damage if the gauss is hit or not holding a constant charge and having a delay? Even sniping is annoying with this new mechanic, I've tried it.

One point on heat - if someone wants to shoot 5 or 6 PPCs at once let them. When they sit there for 30 or 40 seconds shut down as a result, they'll quickly realize how stupid this is.

Orion - Very Cool!

Lastly, we're now 2 weeks away from go live and no word yet on UI 2.0! I would think this would be a higher priority than major weapon nerfs.

[Hisashi No Oni]

OMG! Weapon door light is back on. Now I dont have to rage quit...Dodged a slow (nerfed) PPC blast on that one devs. Try to be more aware of the true needs of the players ok guys?

[Dart Nimrod]

Lyrik, on 03 September 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

I don't think that anyone will miss some noob russian

Real smooth, dude. But that guy isn't noob, I can assure you. Plus I hope that this nasty russophobia won't be tolerated.

Edited by Dart Nimrod, 03 September 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Tier up]

OMG PGI NOW YOU HAVE TO NERF LARGE LASERS!!! TO MANY PEOPLE CAN SNIPE WITH THEM AND DO PIN POINT DAMAGE!!!!!

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Keyman1848, on 03 September 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

This patch is a big weapon nerf. Did you really need to make several changes to PPCs at once? Why not make one adjustment and see how it goes? if this turns out to be too extreme what do you change? PPCS and ERPPCs were not this terribly unbalanced. Remember, Awesomes were designed to shoot 3 PPCs at once.

The Gauss nerf- Do we really need to charge up the Gauss like a "Super Soaker" squirt gun? Why not provide a choice like the bay doors for LRMs? You can have it charged up all the time at the risk of greater damage if the gauss is hit or not holding a constant charge and having a delay? Even sniping is annoying with this new mechanic, I've tried it.

One point on heat - if someone wants to shoot 5 or 6 PPCs at once let them. When they sit there for 30 or 40 seconds shut down as a result, they'll quickly realize how stupid this is.

Orion - Very Cool!

Lastly, we're now 2 weeks away from go live and no word yet on UI 2.0! I would think this would be a higher priority than major weapon nerfs.

ROFLMFAO! You expected what from PGI? That's funny! They can't get their **** together that fast if ever! War Thunder is doing a MUCH better job and I feel confident that Star Citizen will be more of a success then this mess!

[torgian]

I can't really complain about the PPC/ERPPC changes. PPC does have a minimum range afterall, to the point where if they had the option to negate the minimum range (such as in the tabletop/books) you would have a chance of actually causing the PPC to explode due to the capicitor charge or whatever.

The heat also reflects tabletop.

However, Ghost Heat is an issue now. The heat changes in both the PPC and ER PPC don't bother me, but the Ghost Heat still does.

Also very disappointed that CW hasn't made it in yet.

[SovietArmada]

Still, overall this patch is good stuff