88 replies to this topic

[SkyCake]

DeadlyNerd, on 03 September 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Lol yeah, cry moar snipers.

Anyway, it's good to know PGI wasted months when everyone on the forum was suggesting this from the get go, well done.

I'll just ask 1 thing. How on earth are they going to justify AWS-8Q and 9M default loadouts now?

they cant... 9m is really hard to get anything out of now... its so much of a hassle dealing with the heat that you are better off going with ballistic mechs... why take a 9m and give the other team cooler, heavier, brawlier mechs when you cant effectively snipe and support better than a medium mech...

[Xasti]

Time out. Physics would like a word. A gauss round is propelled by magnetic fields. This makes the speed anywhere from "leisurely stroll" to "holy {Scrap}" depending on the strength of the field. Now, practically, the rounds are going hypersonic, that's at least mach 5.

Particle Projection Cannons do not and cannot shoot lightning. Lightning is a discharge of electrical potential and must link both objects to transfer charge. The transfer happens at the speed of light but the connection is substantially slower. Watch an ultra slow video of a lightning bolt and you will see the slow crawl to the ground then a return bolt faster than you can watch it move.

PPC shoot particles. Practically this is a fast moving plasma aka charged particles. Again velocity is applied by magnetic fields. However since plasma requires a large amount of energy to make, we can assume for a given magnetic field, it can launch a gauss round faster than it can charge up and launch a PPC round.

Now, quite messing up physics and return to roasting each other.

[SteelPaladin]

I never liked the all ER PPC all the time meta, but this feels like a jerk change, and a brutal one at that. I could live w/the speed reduction; that's fine. 15 heat on a 10 second heat dissipation cycle, though? 15 DHS can only chew through about 2/3 of the heat from an ER PPC in the time it takes to recharge, when it should be able to support 2 ER PPCs (if only standing still). The only point of carrying multiples is to alpha and hide (and I thought we were supposed to be discouraging alpha warrioring).

The once-proud Awesome has been a joke pretty much since the beginning of MWO, but one would be hard pressed to make it any more pointless than it is now. There is seriously no reason to ever carry 3 PPCs. You can't fire them at once w/ghost heat, and you can't chain fire them fast enough to be worth it because dissipation is too slow. You're better off stripping the 3rd and putting in 7 more heatsinks.

[akpavker]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 03 September 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

The ol' PGI nerfbat comes around hard.

Feel free to cry about it in this thread

people will still use ppc's and the noobs will still complain about being killed by ppc's....

gauss on the other hand im throwing in the useless weapon bin

[AntiCitizenJuan]

I love where regular PPCs are right now. I'm playing with 2 on my AWS's nipples and still get kills from afar, but have to switch to my close range weaponry when anyone gets too close.

It's almost like thats how theyre supposed to function or something.

[akpavker]

i think PGI has a bad habit of listening to forum sugestions. i honestly think they should do what they think is right and not listen to every tw@t that comes to the forums with a i got killed story!

akpavker, on 27 August 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

its very simple if you stand in the open or on top of a big ******* hill and not move you are going to get shot.....a lot and then die. try playing a little smarter e.g....don't stand in 1 spot like a *****, don't charge mechs front on, take cover as much as possible only revealing your self when a good opportunity to strike presents its self. if your pined down try flanking or send a decoy to the enemy base and try split their team up.

from personal experience %50 of the people in this game deserve to die because they are dumb and do stupid things. the only drawback to this is they come to the forums and call for nerfs and if it keeps on going we are going to end up with "mech warrior pillow fight online"

[aniviron]

Roland, on 03 September 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

The primary reason why PPC's were bad in closed beta was not because of their stats.

It was because hit detection was terribad back then.

I am interested to see how the meta changes now with the PPC's reverted to their original stats, but able to actually hit targets consistently.

Hello, been piloting an AWS-8Q since closed beta. The closed beta PPCs were really bad even without the hit problems. Admittedly, the travel speed now is a little bit faster than it was back then, but closed beta had faster recycle times on PPCs, and you could fire three or four of them without turning the mech into burnt toast. The hitreg is a bit better now, but this patch also seems to have reintroduced a problem from closed beta that nobody is talking about yet; the projectile speed is different from the graphical effect that is displayed on-screen. Since the only feedback you have for how much to lead a target is the glowing energy bolt, and the bolt is wrong, aiming is hard again. The only real advantage the PPC has now that it did not have in closed beta is the fact that most drops you will be on a gigantic map now. Of course, 2/3 of those gigantic maps are hot as hell; mixed blessings.

Not griping too much, have always been a brawler at heart, but trying to play any kind of mech that relies on large energy weapons has gotten kind of rough.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yep they were put back in their place alright, back into the broken and useable state we found wasn't balanced over 12 months ago back in closed beta.

Great progress PGI.

[Universe Man]

I don't usually complain about bad patches, but I am having to rework a lot of my mechs because PPCs are pretty stupid now (I lived with the crappy sound it made, but now I might have to remove them altogether).

Gauss used to be kind of fun, despite it exploding on me sometimes. But, this delay it stupid.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Heres one from today on my 2PPC 1LL 3ML AWS.
Been averaging 400-800 damage every game so far.

[General Taskeen]

akpavker, on 03 September 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

i think PGI has a bad habit of listening to forum sugestions. i honestly think they should do what they think is right and not listen to every tw@t that comes to the forums with a i got killed story!

Not always. If the devs get mega-owned by specific builds, then it gets changed. That's how this works, yo.

Anyways, people need to think with their brains a wee bit better. Why can't the game have good balance qualities for many types of preferred combat styles?

AntiCitizenJuan, on 03 September 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

I love where regular PPCs are right now. I'm playing with 2 on my AWS's nipples and still get kills from afar, but have to switch to my close range weaponry when anyone gets too close.

An AWS-8Q is canon with 3 PPC's (later 4 with the 9Q), what's a challenge build player supposed to do, pray that nothing gets close? One shouldn't have to strip off PPC's and put in other stuff just so it can "work," but unfortunately balance affects all Mechs as a whole rather than individually. I think PGI should enhance their idea of "quirks" beyond just turn speeds or whatever - give the aws feared ppc quirks.

Edited by General Taskeen, 03 September 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

General Taskeen, on 03 September 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

An AWS-8Q is canon with 3 PPC's (later 4 with the 9Q), what's a challenge build player supposed to do, pray that nothing gets close? One shouldn't have to strip off PPC's and put in other stuff just so it can "work," but unfortunately balance affects all Mechs as a whole rather than individually. I think PGI should enhance their idea of "quirks" beyond just turn speeds or whatever - give the aws feared ppc quirks.

Hey, I'm cool with the AWS being the only 3PPC mech, it would run hot as balls, but it would be justified by the AWS being as big as a barn.

[hashinshin]

Viktor Drake, on 03 September 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Yep they were put back in their place alright, back into the broken and useable state we found wasn't balanced over 12 months ago back in closed beta.

Great progress PGI.

FALSE. It has a higher cooldown and lower projectile speed than then.

[El Bandito]

Roland, on 03 September 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

The primary reason why PPC's were bad in closed beta was not because of their stats. It was because hit detection was terribad back then. I am interested to see how the meta changes now with the PPC's reverted to their original stats, but able to actually hit targets consistently.

This. People really should realize that the old CB PPC was garbage compared with the new PPC and stop making comparison.

[Solis Obscuri]

Put in their place? Jesus, they've got put on the reservation!

Nothing I can't fix with on my 'mechs, but it's gonna be a raw deal for anyone who tries to use a stock Awesome AWS-8Q or AWS-9M with the heat output and worse minimum range penalties...

[Solis Obscuri]

Roland, on 03 September 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

The primary reason why PPC's were bad in closed beta was not because of their stats.

It was because hit detection was terribad back then.

I am interested to see how the meta changes now with the PPC's reverted to their original stats, but able to actually hit targets consistently.

I remember CB PPCs have reduced damage in mi range, not zero damage in min range... though of course, I also remember them doing zero damage 50% of the time at any range. I'm finding PPCs are ok if you bring back-up weapons close-in, ERPPCs are ok if you bring a maximum of about one of them - firing a pair will have you shutdown and internally damaged within three volleys even running 17 DHS.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Good job PGI. This is EXACTLY what needed to be done. I commend you for making a tough decision.

[GreenKnight1150]

If any developers read this; I would just like to throw my two cents in and suggest that the ERPPC base heat increase from 13 to 15 is unfavourable and severally limits this weapon as a viable main gun. I hope to see it changed in the future, as I did enjoy using this weapon.

[Kahoumono]

The changes once again are too drastic. I only use PPCs here and there so they don't affect me much. What really gets me worked up is the way the devs make over the top changes overnight without any proper explanation. Raising the heat was probably ok but also whacking the hell out of the weapon velocity is just dumb. I also don't get why there is a min range on the PPC and not ER PPC. I would have thought the ER variety would have the min range to offset the extra range it has over the normal PPC. Anyways, I am probably just to vocal minority so disregard this message as usual.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Kahoumono, on 03 September 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

The changes once again are too drastic. I only use PPCs here and there so they don't affect me much. What really gets me worked up is the way the devs make over the top changes overnight without any proper explanation. Raising the heat was probably ok but also whacking the hell out of the weapon velocity is just dumb. I also don't get why there is a min range on the PPC and not ER PPC. I would have thought the ER variety would have the min range to offset the extra range it has over the normal PPC. Anyways, I am probably just to vocal minority so disregard this message as usual.

The mechanics r correct. Based on the Table Top game ERPPCs have no min range penalty and PPCs have a 3 hex (90m) penalty. It's fair. But for the love of God DHSs should be double.