490 replies to this topic

[3Xtr3m3]

^^And the Oscar goes to........

[Thermal Scorpion]

My opinion on the gauss is this:

1) The hold time is far too short. I constantly have my own team dancing back and forth in front of enemy mechs, unless the entire battle remains at the longer ranges, which means I either shoot them in the back or constantly waste a charge. On close maps this becomes exponentially more common, and as we can't pick which maps, or which mechs we are dropping in after seeing the map, this is much more annoying.

This mechanic has destroyed the effective DPS of the weapon. Before anyone cries skill, and move to a different spot, keep in mind your team is moving and you need to move within a reasonable range in order to be able to support them effectively or else you are just dead weight to them. If the gauss did max damage out to 1000 meters I would feel differently.

Instead of a short hold why not have the weapon start adding heat the longer you hold the capacitor charge (With a max of like 3-5 seconds) or at least give us more than a couple of seconds to fire so we can let our team move out of the bloody way? Sniping should be able to support the team, not just fire at mechs who are also snipers, or the random unhittable Spider darting around the edges of the battle.

2) So the gauss still explodes when the capacitor isn't charged? Why? That's why the weapon exploded when hit because the energy from the capacitor was released.

3) Double charge times/recycle? Why does the gauss have a recycle time if it needs to be charged? Yes the ammo needs to be loaded but I should be able to charge the coils while it's cycling.

Pros: Low heat, high speed round, five more damage than a single PPC, good range.

Cons: Explodes no matter charge state, double recycle penalty recycle+charge, short shot hold, uses ammo, weighs a massive amount (More than 2 PPCs), uses ballistic flight model (bullet drop).

I understand why you guys want to break this pinpoint meta up. I do, it was out of control. Not because of the gauss rifle but because of the fact that most of the jump snipers were running two PPCs/ERPPCs AND the gauss. You penalized a weapon that already had significant things against it instead of making the PPC require a charge up. This absolutely baffles me because this wasn't such a big deal until you actually made PPCs hit things, reduced the heat, and sped them up.

With the Ghost Heat in play why didn't you just make the gauss act like a 3rd PPC or something when fired within one second of a PPC? It seems like there were several much better options to fix this besides adding a mechanic that is almost as bad as the UAC5 manual unjam that existed in the early days of the game. I probably shouldn't have said that because UAC5s are too simple in their point and click usage...

[Geminus]

Hopefully this "look" at the AC/5 is to make it use the standard AC ammo, as its the same round, only with the ability to fire faster, and hopefully includes a "look" at the LB10x where it can use both shotgun and normal AC ammo as it is intended with the ability to switch between the two from in-cockpit.

[Lazor Sharp]

I have been playing and trying to learn and get a feel for the new Gauss mechanic on my Flame 2 LL, 1 Gauss build..... and on a Ilya 2 ML, 2 Gauss build, before posting about it. So here is my 2 Cents........

"it is very effective at defining the Gauss Rifle as a long range sniper weapon."

you say this is a long range sniper weapon..... BS
you have completely broken the Gauss Rifle at all ranges for being a sniper rifle....................

if you cant hit that poptart at 700m in the short while he is exposed, or hit a fast mech before he can get behind cover, than it is totally worth less as a sniper weapon.

Biggest problem at any range, is if you see a mech appear all of the sudden, he can hit you with a alpha before you can charge up, that is a major handicap....
If Matt Dillon had to wait .75 sec before he could shoot in a quick draw situation, he would be dead.... and that is what we have here at any range.

The Gauss was never really great at brawling before anyway, compared to a AC20, but it could do it...... So, I have seen ppl saying HA HA HA you cant brawl with it any more HA HA HA...... well that is BS, it is a little harder to do, but it's is still about the same at close range, if not better because of the speed buff, and time on target issue, but if you get to shoot me first, on a quick draw type situation at any range, you most generally win, that is the biggest handicap that this change has caused.... I really hate looking up to see a mech appear over a distant ridge, and getting a face full of PPC before i can charge up.........

Once you charge a cap, it stays charged, unless it is very leaky, and then you just keep it topped off. It only take's millisecond to discharge them. but depending on the source energy, can take quite a while to charge them
if the ammo in the AC guns is explosive, the cap banks are explosive in a different way......
ppc's and even laser's use cap discharge to fire, but they are not as fragile, as they don't use as many caps banks as a Gauss, but PPC & Lasers should have a some what greater fragility because of the Pop of Kilo Joules of energy they store too.
Gauss charge the several cap banks up during the cool down, it is not so much cool down when firing a series of electromagnet's once, is not that hot.., as it is to recharge several different cap banks for Gauss, that take's a LOT more energy and time, than the lasers or ppc. For PPC 's and laser's it is mostly cool down and charge caps, just not as many caps.
So the reason a Gauss is fragile, is because the several different sized cap banks for each size electromagnet in the firing sequence, that store perhaps 50KV ea, are releasing several Kilo Joules of energy ea, into the mech and motor at the same time, that fries everything when they pop, much more so than the single cap bank on the PPC's or Laser's

It is not logical for any ballistic weapon to have a min range. A solid slug is gonna hit anything between the end of the barrel and it's max range......
The ferrous slug and a AC slug, is still accelerating as it leaves the barrel (mussel velocity), and continues to accelerate up to it's max peak M/S from as low as 10, to a few 100 meters out, depending on the weapon, then starts decelerating after that and dropping in elevation...... If you want to decrease brawling with it, than scale up from a non 0 min point damage from the end of the barrel, out to 60m or so to max damage, then constant out to range, then drop in points out to max range...... this is more realistic....... and would apply to all the AC guns as well......

Love the speed buff, but the physic don't work.
With ballistics, Double the Velocity quadruples the Kinetic energy, making a 15 point 1200 m/s to a 2400 m/s a 60 point weapon and a 2000 m/s a approx 48 point weapon damage because of the extra Kinetic energy. It also takes 4X the energy in charge up, to get 4X the speed out put.
It was just fine at 1200 m/s.......

A PPC has to form up (Focus) a electromagnetic field to create a straight line ionized plasma conduit in the atmosphere from point a to point b, so that the lightning (Electrons) can flow between point a and point b. The lighting energy travels almost instantaneously all the way to the target which Is way faster than 2000 m/s, or till max range where the plasma loses coherence and dissipates and can no longer conduct energy. This is why the PPC's should have the delay before firing, because it takes time to ionize the atmosphere between point a and point b. PPC can't be used in a space vacuum environment and cant be used on some maps like a moon map with no or min atmosphere........ They NEED a Gas to turn into a thin plasma conduit, to send electrical energy to the target....... where Lasers send photons to the target, and do not need the atmosphere to work, and perhaps work better in a vacuum.....

To the poster that said that poptarting is not sniping, BS.......

Poptarting is snipping, just one form of it........ hill humping or wall humping is another form, it is all about making that hit, then hiding again till another opportunity to pop up, or hop out and take the shot and disappear again..... snipers don't spend any time out in the open if they can help it, and this change increased the time i have to spend in the open to get a shot off... If you are forced by the delay to take more than 2 or 3 Daka Daka Rounds while in the open, than that's too long in the open........ and as far as that go's, range does not matter, i can snipe with a AC20... it just don't work at the same range as the gauss........

Conclusion,
The Gauss is Not Impossible to use, and I have gotten fairly used to it, and gotten plenty of kills with it, but it is NOT FIT as true long range Sniper weapon any more....... and as the Marine said above, No true long range sniper would use it......
Nor do I like it, and it's really not as fun as it was..........

I Vote to, Please put it back to the way it was, as it was in a really good place before this unnecessary Nerf....!!!!

[werewolf75]

yep.... change the gauss back it really sucks now.... wonder how many pages this goes before they "get it"....?

[rdmgraziel]

Gauss round goes faster and the rifle itself now requires a medium laser or better to make it explode (instead of everything short of a flamer). Which is a nice buff. I don't personally like the charging mechanic and have actively removed all Gauss Rifles from all my mechs and replaced them with AC10s, LBX10s, or UAC5s as a result of this change, since I can't seem to properly utilize Gauss effecitvely now. But there are those who like it, and CAN effectively utilize it, so I'll say this instead.

Sniping is about patience and waiting and making the shot when it counts. I'd be more OK with the Gauss change if the charge lasted longer, or at least held until you let go of the button. With the charge mechanic, the moment you start building a charge, it feels like you need to hurry and pick your shot and let loose before the fragging thing loses its charge, which is a small window, and your team can stumble un-helpfully into the way or you can lose your shot before you can charge AND fire.

I understand why they didn't add the charge mechanic to PPCs, as I imagine the other nerfs to PPCs were planned, and adding a charge mechanic on top of high heat and slowed projectile speed would have just made them completely unusable. If they were to add a charge mechanic onto PPCs, they would need to lower their heat or increase their projectile speed or some other buff to compensate. The less to 0 damage under 90 meters aspect of PPCs NEVER made sense to me, since you're hurling a bolt of lightning, but that's another discussion entirely.

I look forward to the flamer changes because they're kind of awful now (mostly range and heat), and I've managed to overheat with just ONE when it should have been heat-neutral due to 18 double heat sinks (this did take about 15-20 seconds before it started BUILDING heat, and another 15-20 seconds to overheat my mech). I also look forward hesitantly to the UAC changes, as they're probably TOO good right now, and there's still UAC2's, UAC10's and UAC20's to consider for future balance (not the least of which is Clans), so the sooner UAC5s are finished the better. The old unjam mechanic sucked, 25% jam chance was probably too much, and the 15% chance is probably too little, so I'm expecting a balanced % chance between the two, or a new mechanic of some kind.

[Kin3ticX]

Needs better audio on the new gauss

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 September 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Love the basic idea of how Paul wants to differentiate the Gauss from other weapons! Kudos for thinking out of the box!
Let me suggest a few tweaks:

1. Reduce the recycling time of the Gauss rifle by 0.25 seconds (partially makes up for charge time)

2. Reduce the charge up time for a SINGLE Gauss rifle to 0.25 seconds (indicates that charging a single Gauss is no hassle for a grown mech)

3. Gauss rifle should only be volatile while it is charge - feel free to double the explosive damage

4. A single Gauss rifle should be able to hold its charge for a much longer time - perhaps as much as 10 seconds.

5. For dual Gauss, keep the charge time at 0.75 seconds (strains the 'mech, makes boating harder)

6. For dual Gauss, keep the charged time low, perhaps 2.5 seconds (the current is too short even for dual Gauss)

7. Change the firing mechanism from "hold down to charge, then release" - to "hold to charge, release, then press again to fire" I really dont want to accidentally shoot my team mates because the weapon is still charged when I release the button by accident.

[ClanKiller]

Guido, on 03 September 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but your argument is invalid. First off, in cannon/lore, only the ER version of PPCs were meant to be sniper weapons (and only marginally so), with PPCs being a thunderbolt-throwing cannon of a weapon covering a similar role to Large Lasers, in the medium distance range. In tabletop ranges were determined largely by accounting for the poor ability of the mech's computer to aim; players do not have to suffer that in this game, allowing the entire PPC family became much more effective as sniper weapons. Gauss rifles, while differing a bit between the TT and novel lore, was either a weapon very rarely used except by clan or had a minimum range that it could cause damage. Since TT's minimum range didn't work well with current knowledge of projectiles, the delay is much more in tune with lore/TT and present day knowledge of the weapon than just allowing it to snap shots off whenever and from whatever distance.

You want this game to be cannon-true? Then ask them to put random range-increasing spread on the weapons fired, so your ability to hit targets at ranges beyond effective range is determined purely by luck, and even more so where you hit them.

I don't like the idea of randomness in the game.

What about setting convergence on the torso weapons to a locked range and only having the weapons in the arms the ability to adjust convergence. This way you only get all weapons to hit on the same spot if you drive your mech to the proper range and then are a good shot. The torso convergence range should be adjustable prior to the match starting to account for different ranged weapons.

[Jam the Bam]

^^^ completely off topic mate.

Anyway, I like the new gauss. It works well and requires some skill to be effective with. Been using it on my HM a lot. Only difference is now its trickier to synchronise with PPC's, which is a good thing.

I've seen a lot more diverse builds since this change happened. The gameplay has been a lot more fun so I'm in favour of this change.

[SteelPaladin]

ClanKiller, on 12 September 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

I don't like the idea of randomness in the game.

What about setting convergence on the torso weapons to a locked range and only having the weapons in the arms the ability to adjust convergence. This way you only get all weapons to hit on the same spot if you drive your mech to the proper range and then are a good shot. The torso convergence range should be adjustable prior to the match starting to account for different ranged weapons.

Mechs w/arm mounts become the new meta. Treating different mount locations differently isn't going to lead to a solid balance.

[Corusmaximus]

The new mechanic behind the Gauss is inaccessible to deaf people, or people with limited hearing. I suggest also adding some sort of visual cue, like a bar that fills, then flashes when it is ready to fire. This would fix the problem and would also make hearing players happy.

[Corusmaximus]

Thontor, on 13 September 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

There is a visual cue

Well I completely missed it while playing several games w/ the new gauss. Maybe I need glasses, or maybe it needs to stand out a bit more.

[Chronojam]

It is difficult to notice, especially for colorblind players. You're not the only one who missed it, that's for sure.

Some stand-out audio cues could help.

[Guido]

ClanKiller, on 12 September 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

I don't like the idea of randomness in the game.

What about setting convergence on the torso weapons to a locked range and only having the weapons in the arms the ability to adjust convergence. This way you only get all weapons to hit on the same spot if you drive your mech to the proper range and then are a good shot. The torso convergence range should be adjustable prior to the match starting to account for different ranged weapons.

I was being sardonic when I said that. I don't want that either, and I'm fairly certain that only a truly minor portion of people playing MWO would like something like cones of fire. My point in that statement was that cannon doesn't often translate well onto a game, and the change to Gauss was far more appropriate to affect change than just leaving the problem at hand while not straying so far away from the IP that we walked into wonderland.

Personally, I would have preferred the charge mechanic apply to PPC/ERPPC, so as to stem the current blight that is PPC overusage, but I'm sure once it get's to a point PGI will take the nuclear nerf-hammer to them, as is their Modus Operandi with rampant problems.

Edit: So I don't end up with multiple posts on top of each other, I'll comment here again.

Corusmaximus, on 13 September 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Well I completely missed it while playing several games w/ the new gauss. Maybe I need glasses, or maybe it needs to stand out a bit more.

It comes down to that observant player vs normal player again. There's a whole slew of controls and indicators that people don't normally use, and while not a game-changer in the traditional sense, the indicators and controls can help.

You can see the charge light in the weapon group ready indicators, which is situated around the crosshair. Red means recycling, orange means ready, green means charged.

There's also a heat sink board that tells you the status of each heatsink you have in your mech and a kill board that tells you who and how many you've personally killed.

Edited by Guido, 13 September 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Corusmaximus]

I went back looking for the visual cues and now they are as plain as day. thanks everyone!

[Lupus Aurelius]

Paul Inouye said:

Just a quick update for upcoming weapon checks and balancing.

First off, the Gauss Rifle. As mentioned in AtD45, I stated that the changes to the Gauss Rifle's firing mechanic were to help make it a role specific weapon. Testing has proven that while the mechanic takes a bit to get used to, it is very effective at defining the Gauss Rifle as a long range sniper weapon. The charge time is easy to get used to, due to its short (0.75 second) delay. While it is meant to be a long range weapon, the Gauss Rifle is still usable at short range. It just requires a much higher skill shot rather than a simple point and click.

This is the first of our upcoming changes that involve diversifying some of the weapon systems into more defined role types. These won't be big game changers, just small tweaks to bring some of the weapons in line with the rest. More info will be released as we put changes into the pipeline.

That being said, Flamers and a revisit of the UAC/5 are currently being looked at. I've also asked Dave to take a look at lights the same way mediums were addressed. Stay tuned for more information on that.

As per usual, feedback can go here: http://mwomercs.com/...rward-feedback/

You have got to be s***ing me. You obviously have never been a sniper. You have a split second to take the lead the target and take the shot. It's not like you can charge it up and hold the shot indefinitely until ready, you have a ludicrously short period of time to release the trigger. So what if the shot is now faster or the Gauss has 2 more health than it did, it's {Scrap} for anything right now. Short range is even worse. Which is why you don't see them anymore, everyone is on the UAC5 now.

Same with the PPC changes. Not only are they back at closed beta heat levels, but now there's ghost heat and internal damage from overheating. Everyone said what garbage they were then, and now they are even worse. ERPPC at 12 heat with the ghost heat and heat penalties was more than sufficient to resolve the issues.

What it boils down to is that PGI balance solution is this - appeal to the lowest common denominator, and appease crybabies. Most of the nerfs lately have been more about fear of losing less skilled players than about game balance. Nerf sniping, because I want to brawl. Nerf jumpjetting, because I want to stand in the open with impunity. Nerf PPCs, because only ballistics should have pinpoint damage so I can dakkadakka. This is not balancing, this is appeasement.

Add to that the lack of credibility from PGI on issues like 3rd person view, and there is absolutely no reason to expend RL money on this game, nor to support it. Starcitizen now gets my money and support, because as of yet they have shown that they have credibility, and know that balancing based on the crybaby majority is not the way to go.

R. Bollocks and P. Inureye have been only doing an excellent job at giving it hard up the sphincter to those who have been dedicated Battletech and Mechwarrior fans.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 14 September 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[DC1]

I'm not going to take things as far as the last guy... but lets face it, for those of us who liked to snipe... or liked the GR in general for that matter... we kinda got shot in the foot here. Everyone is just going to switch to A/C10s and forget that GRs used to have enough DPS shock and awe, and CQC effectiveness to be worth the 18 tons ((amo included)) and 4 second recharge time. Now that no one with a decent Damage per round wants to touch those things, i think its safe to assume that this was just another nerf. The main problem i have with this nerf though is that it has thrown the whole game into disarray... GRs were BY FAR the most reliable weapon, sure they weighed more than anything else, but they flew far and fast and hit hard without excessive heat. I put a GR on anything that would fit it because it was the best way to round out a solid build. Now I have to go back and toss my GRs for AC/10s because at least they will allow me to fire when i pull the trigger, and not a critical aim throwing second later... Seriously though, just look at what this did to game balance. if there is no effective suppression weapon, then the now broken UAC/5s were naturally going to sweep the field in a shower of hot lead and short lived burst brawls. After standing by PGI for at least trying to fix the game over the past months... they have totally lost me here. If you want to give anything a charge up time, make it a PPC.

[Jack Spade Ward]

The Gauss is dead, long live the UAC5...! Oh wait, the UAC5 is going to be nerfed also...

To be honest, i enjoyed the Gauss, it was a good weapon. If i cant put an AC20, the gauss was the popular choice.
Now, with this charge thing, it just killed the weapon.
But theres one thing that it is really annoying me, my hero mechs... i feel that my Heavy Metal and Dragon Slayer just got useless. If i could, at least fit an AC20on them, to become competitive, but no... the gauss is useless now, and along the way, it just killed these heromechs.

I also bought the phoenix project. Yesterday, i ask for a refund! Im not paying PGI ane more cent if they keep going this path! And the trash talk about skill, its just BS, the gauss has become as usefull as a knob on a chair, and the PPCs heat is just abysmal.
The ghost heat was a brilliant solution against boating, a solution that i agree 100%. Then why the recent nerfs?

I do hope that they fix the gauss to the way it was, or at least let the hero mechs carry an AC20, since you can mount an AC20 on a Raven or a cicada, not being able to put an AC20 on assault mechs is just stupid...

[Wolfways]

"First off, the Gauss Rifle. As mentioned in AtD45, I stated that the changes to the Gauss Rifle's firing mechanic were to help make it a role specific weapon. Testing has proven that while the mechanic takes a bit to get used to, it is very effective at defining the Gauss Rifle as a long range sniper weapon. The charge time is easy to get used to, due to its short (0.75 second) delay. While it is meant to be a long range weapon, the Gauss Rifle is still usable at short range. It just requires a much higher skill shot rather than a simple point and click.

This is the first of our upcoming changes that involve diversifying some of the weapon systems into more defined role types. These won't be big game changers, just small tweaks to bring some of the weapons in line with the rest. More info will be released as we put changes into the pipeline"

All i read there was "Because of the ridiculous heat system we're having problems balancing weapons, so instead we decided to ignore the problem again and screw about with the weapons, giving them overly complicated "tweaks".