38 replies to this topic

[Tweaks]

I bought a founders package as soon as it was available (first or second batch), and played MWO for several months until sometime last year. I took a break for personal reason, and recently just came back after several months to try the game again.

My only reaction (and it's not a good one) is "What the hell happened to this game?!"

I used to be a decent player. Not awesomely good, but good enough to land some good hits and survive more matches than I'd die, most of the time.

Now, it seems that no matter which class of 'Mech I play, I get owned so quickly and destroyed in seconds and I seem to barely damage anything before I get killed. It seems everyone is legging like crazy or destroying my CT in 1 or 2 alphas. I'm so overwhelmed that I can't do anything but watch my 'Mech be destroyed in panic.

What the hell happened??? I know it's not me that just suddenly suck at it. There's more to it. I seem to lose armor much faster now, and every shot I receive seems more accurate. Is it that everybody is just all experts now or is it that this new HRS thing is making the game so accurate that everyone is sniping? Are there aimbots plaguing the game now or is everybody else than me just that good?

I'm seriously regretting paying so much for the founders package. I should have waited (not blaming anyone but me for that). I don't know what to say... I'm just very shocked and disappointed right now...

Edited by Tweaks, 03 September 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Some of it might be HSR - esp for your faster mechs.

A lot of it has been changes to how heat functions from what I know - Koniving has multiple posts on how them raising the heat cap and lowering dissipation has caused a multitude of issues, but PGI seems to be sticking to their guns on what they've done with it. (don't know if you were around for those changes though)

That and an extra 4 more players from closed beta - which adds up to a LOT more firepower sent downrange.

[Tweaks]

Just seems like an arms race now, and nothing but a "who alpha-strikes the CT first wins" game. It's really sad. I can't see where role warfare fits anymore. Lights are useless now, or at least, I can't seem to do anything good with them anymore and they used to be pretty fun to play.

[Tyrnea Smurf]

Tweaks, on 03 September 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

I bought a founders package as soon as it was available (first or second batch), and played MWO for several months until sometime last year. I took a break for personal reason, and recently just came back after several months to try the game again.

My only reaction (and it's not a good one) is "What the hell happened to this game?!"

I used to be a decent player. Not awesomely good, but good enough to land some good hits and survive more matches than I'd die, most of the time.

Now, it seems that no matter which class of 'Mech I play, I get owned so quickly and destroyed in seconds and I seem to barely damage anything before I get killed. It seems everyone is legging like crazy or destroying my CT in 1 or 2 alphas. I'm so overwhelmed that I can't do anything but watch my 'Mech be destroyed in panic.

A couple of points, if you getting clocked in every type and size of mech you play, either you are:

#1: trying to play trial mechs (with a few exceptions that will get you killed).

#2: your rushing ahead blundering into a full company of enemy mechs who's sole purpose at that point is to see which lucky one will get credited with you as a kill first.

#3: your running with your own mechs, but they are teched and geared for a meta several months out of date and what your current setup is getting you killed. Heat has changed, weapons have gone through several revisions and are constantly being adjusted, and running around without any armor, or minimal armor in the legs so you can mount more guns is not a very good idea. Not saying that's what your doing, but I personally run with max, or near max armor on my legs and I can count on one hand when getting legged was my cause of death, so if your getting legged either your running a light, or your running around in your mechs without their armor pants on...

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What the hell happened??? I know it's not me that just suddenly suck at it. There's more to it. I seem to lose armor much faster now, and every shot I receive seems more accurate. Is it that everybody is just all experts now or is it that this new HRS thing is making the game so accurate that everyone is sniping? Are there aimbots plaguing the game now or is everybody else than me just that good?

A lot of it is either your mechs are not current in there loadouts, your tactics in the fight are not as good as they should be, or yes you are running into the holy grail of the ubermechwarrior Elo bracket where you play against the elite.

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I'm seriously regretting paying so much for the founders package. I should have waited (not blaming anyone but me for that). I don't know what to say... I'm just very shocked and disappointed right now...

Could be worse, some people bought founders, then bought points, then bought Phoenix Project, just to see the game add 3PV, against their and the larger community's wishes.

Depending on where you come down on all that, you might have got off cheaply.

But seriously cruise around the forums, look at current builds and load outs, get up to speed on builds and tactics.

I bet you would improve your match experiences if you do.

[Koniving]

The capacity system admittedly has been there from the beginning, but at the time repair and rearm, the lack of awareness and knowledge in how it worked, and the old system (101% heat, instant death. No damage, you just freaking die) kept it in check.

They took away repair and rearm, no expense to having DHS and Endo Steel.
The new overheat system kicked in. There wasn't a 101% heat and you die thing anymore. You could override and just keep firing so long as you shut down before too long. Then you stop receiving any damage at all. Got a 6 PPC stalker? Fire. Fire again. Fire, shut down, and power right back up and fire even though you're over 150%. Shut back down, sit there for a moment. Repeat.
Then knowledge of the system spread. We began using alpha strike weapons and realizing we can spam them.
Rather than fix it, Paul's given us the Ghost Heat. It helps. But it has loopholes that have us creating even deadlier alpha strike bundles. Can't do 40 damage from 4 PPCs? Take 2 PPCs and add 4 MPL, 44 damage. Take 2 PPCs and add a Gauss, 35. Can't use the AC/40 combo anymore? Take an AC/20 + 2 AC/5s and you have an AC/40 Jager with more range.

So... Yeah. I'd like to see heat management (edit: MATTER) more. But so long as PGI is trying to simulate "instantly sinking heat," this is how it's going to be.

Edited by Koniving, 03 September 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Hit detection is much better now, which will affect how lights work - the lagshield is basically gone, so you'll probably need to be much more conservative in your playstyle.

[Tweaks]

Tyrnea Smurf, on 03 September 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

A couple of points, if you getting clocked in every type and size of mech you play, either you are:

#1: trying to play trial mechs (with a few exceptions that will get you killed).

That's not it. I don't play Trial 'Mechs unless I'm completely out of cash.

Tyrnea Smurf, on 03 September 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

#2: your rushing ahead blundering into a full company of enemy mechs who's sole purpose at that point is to see which lucky one will get credited with you as a kill first.

I don't rush into the enemy, and try to follow my lance as much as possible. A lot of the times I've been owned was on 1v1s actually. Surprised by a 'Mech around a corner or being chased.

Tyrnea Smurf, on 03 September 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

#3: your running with your own mechs, but they are teched and geared for a meta several months out of date and what your current setup is getting you killed. Heat has changed, weapons have gone through several revisions and are constantly being adjusted, and running around without any armor, or minimal armor in the legs so you can mount more guns is not a very good idea. Not saying that's what your doing, but I personally run with max, or near max armor on my legs and I can count on one hand when getting legged was my cause of death, so if your getting legged either your running a light, or your running around in your mechs without their armor pants on...

Could be part of it, but still... I have founders 'Mechs and tried different combos, but I don't have the cbills to try everything, and I just die too fast to make enough cbills to get better stuff... Catch 22, and tough learning curve (after changes I mean).

I'll check other builds to see if I can find a decent one, but I still feel there's something very wrong with some of the changes. It just doesn't feel like the game the devs wanted originally, or at least, doesn't feel like what I understood of it. I.e. What happened to role warfare? Have you seen any light able to do a good job in a pub match?

[Koniving]

Tweaks, on 03 September 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

It just doesn't feel like the game the devs wanted originally, or at least, doesn't feel like what I understood of it. I.e. What happened to role warfare? Have you seen any light able to do a good job in a pub match?

Disappeared with the following:
Removal of repair and rearm -- people are not conservative anymore, they just rush and fight. Without repair and rearm, the assault mech is the main workhorse because people want to survive for 5 seconds.
Introduction of ECM -- at first this only brought chaos, then later any information warfare potential it could have brought (ghost signatures that claim to be assaults when it's nothing, false readings, jamming mech info WITHOUT removing mech completely from targeting) were simply lost in favor of a semi-functional cloaking device that can be completely obliterated by anyone using BAP. Which almost everyone is.
The alpha-strike meta, which really took off with the introduction of host state rewind (lag compensation) which improved hit detection (for everything BUT missiles and AC/20s in my case) and thus between this and the removal of "delayed convergence" (it'd take 1 second to realign your aim and it was server controlled so sometimes it'd take longer) has made it so that lights and mediums are almost instantly fried in any fight.

There's a possibility on the "assault-mech-warrior" trend being reduced with the introduction of weight limits, but it's only going to hurt groups because it ~only~ affects groups and forces them to use light to heavy mechs for the most part. Which then hurt teams which then hurts teamwork and ....this is gonna be a nasty chain reaction.


That said if you're having problems hitting lights, try lasers. Especially pulse lasers now. That's a genuine suggestion.

Do not fire more than 2 large lasers, large pulse lasers, PPCs, ER PPCs, AC/20s, or LRM-15s. Can only fire 1 LRM-20 at a time. Don't fire more than 4 AC/2s at once. Or more than 6 medium lasers (I told you this ghost heat thing is super inconsistent). Or more than 3 SRM-6s, or more than 5 SRM-2s. The list goes on. If you've got about an hour there's a chart somewhere that has maybe 1/4th of the overall info on it. The Ac/2 thing was never listed on it. But it exists, and it's "intentional," and it hurts chain-firing too.

The great news is that the community is about 1/3rd "MG is OP" and 2/3rds "MG is under-powered, make it do 2 damage per second!"

If it helps to encourage you though.. Here's some vids by Lordred chasing me around as a camera as I use NON-alpha strike builds to rip things apart. The third is pretty recent.

Spoiler

Atlas versus LOTS of {Scrap}. AC/2 + AC/5 + 4 ML + SRM-6 + LRM-10


Jager: 4 flamers, 2 MGs, 2 LB-10s


The IKBoSy. 2 flamers, 2 LB-10s, 1 UAC/5.

Edited by Koniving, 03 September 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Tyrnea Smurf]

Tweaks, on 03 September 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

That's not it. I don't play Trial 'Mechs unless I'm completely out of cash.

You don't pay for repair and rearm anymore so really you should never be gimped by not being able to launch your mechs. It cost you nothing to launch now. At worst you might get into a spot where you buy a big pricy module and accidently sold your only mechs engine to pay for it, thus you can't use your mech till you buy a new engine, but other than that, any of your mechs should be able to launch then.

And while i'm on the subject SELL NOTHING. I mean it, the mechlab will hold a seeming endless amount of stuff. Anything and everything you strip off a mech you buy, just hold onto it. You never know when some adjustment will make that equipment become the new ubermeta gear.

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I don't rush into the enemy, and try to follow my lance as much as possible. A lot of the times I've been owned was on 1v1s actually. Surprised by a 'Mech around a corner or being chased.

Well my advice is if your in a pug, stick with the amoeba like group that tends to form, try and stay away from the edges of it, if at all possible stay twards the rear, and focus your shots on who your nearest teammate is firing at.

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Could be part of it, but still... I have founders 'Mechs and tried different combos, but I don't have the cbills to try everything, and I just die too fast to make enough cbills to get better stuff... Catch 22, and tough learning curve (after changes I mean).

Bingo we have a winner. Put your mechs armor pants back on.

Now back to the mechlab for a second, if c-bills are tight, I suggest stripping your mechs of equipment and using that pool to try and get one of those founders tricked out. You got 4 of them (never tried to sell mine so I don't know if you could have blundered that far as to having sold any, for this post I'll run under the assumption you haven't/can't have) Maybe the Catapult, or the Atlas. 2 rules of thumb, double heatsinks are your friend, endo steel is way more valuable than ferro fibrous armor, if you got to choose between them (and for everything over lights, you do). The only mech in your bay that has to have any equipment in it is the one your gonna play that match in. So gather up all the rest of your parts, weapons, equipment into the mechlab so you can freely tinker while trying to reduce your costs by not having to buy yet another ER large laser when you already own a few which are on your other mechs. Once you pool up your resources/equipment you can then try and play with a build or 2 in mechlab and see truly what it would cost (if you already have the component it costs you nothing to equip/unequip it). One suggestion I would make is if you strip all your mechs down, also remove the engines, as a mech without an engine will not launch, but a mechs with no weapons, or no ammo will. This might save you the annoyance of popping into a map with nothing but some pithy language to use in chat...

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I'll check other builds to see if I can find a decent one, but I still feel there's something very wrong with some of the changes. It just doesn't feel like the game the devs wanted originally, or at least, doesn't feel like what I understood of it. I.e. What happened to role warfare? Have you seen any light able to do a good job in a pub match?

Who knows. Basically PGI has spent the last year trying to fix hit detection and game engine optimization. Oh and 3PV. But at least there is a whole bunch of new hero mechs you can buy.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

The incremental changes over time have each individually been... quite big actually. I normally expect changes one at a time, with some cool-down to work out where the new equilibrium is. However, recent changes have swung in-game behaviour a lot and have come in groups. I can only imagine what it's like for someone coming back from an extended break. The child you knew and invested in is now an uncommunicative and grumpy teenager that's a bit gangly and awkward and has mood swings. It's hard not to be a bit taken aback.

Firstly - forget what you think you know. What constituted "reasonable piloting" that met with some success back in the day is not likely to be anywhere near optimal now. You have to learn new skills, a new pace of play and overcome any habits you picked up in the past by experimenting, ruthlessly, with things that may not have worked when you last played. You have new maps to learn as well.

Make sure every death counts. It costs you nothing to die or learn from your death. Why did you die? What could you do differently to make it pay off better or occur less frequently?

Watch other people when you die. Have a look at their builds, how they play. Decide whether it seems good/bad successful/unsuccessful. How does it differ from your style? There is nothing an successful player can do that you cannot do - figure out what it is and boost your performance.

I would suggest sticking with one chassis - rather than trying to solve your problem by swapping frequently. It takes 20 matches in a chassis to adapt your play to suit the role the 'Mech can play. If you swap 'Mechs too much you will not be able to see what's working/not working because of the chassis and what's working/not working because of you and what you do. You will learn one lesson from an Assault chassis, swap to a Medium and find it doesn't work.

Buyer's remorse is a very common human reaction to (positive) change. Give it time and it will improve as you figure out what to do with this new thing. If you can grab a copy of teamspeak and join in with others - it can ease the frustration and double the fun.

[Johnny Marek Summers]

Pilot Lab might be new to you as well. When you use a mech in a match you earn xp on the mech you used. If you go to the Pilot Lab you will be able to unlock Basic Skills on whatever mech you use. However to be able to get any Elite Skills you need to unlock the Basic Skills on three different variants of one chassis (Jenners or Stalkers or Centurions, etc). Once you unlock all four of the Elite Skills on one variant (say Founder's Hunchback) the bonuses of each of the Basic Skills get doubled.

[Cybermech]

that is weird, I'm nearly sure about 2 days ago a guy put up the exact thread.
start to the middle of the post is the EXACT SAME.
very strange.

what is also strange is that your having a hard time with lights even though knockdowns got taken out.
maybe play a few more.

[xengk]

Also, it is 12 vs 12 now.
There is 4 more enemy shooting at you.

[Tweaks]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I appreciate it. I found this site yesterday and made this build:

JR7-D

I'll see how it does. I like light 'Mechs and hate the assault ones, so if I can learn to work with this I'll be happy. I did have to buy some MC just so I could get that XL engine though... I really shouldn't have sold some of the equipment I had stockpiled. My Founders 'Mechs are empty right now...

xengk, on 04 September 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

Also, it is 12 vs 12 now.
There is 4 more enemy shooting at you.

I didn't realize this, but yeah, could be it too... Just seem like I'm always ambushed by 3-4 guys.

By the way, general question... I saw the videos Koniving posted, and flamers seem to be pretty decent or am I dreaming? They used to suck.

[Snowcrow]

This is how multiplayer games work. As time goes on, people get better. You can't expect to take a break for months and then be able to compete when you come back.

Also the game has changed a lot. You'll want to read up on ghost heat and the current weapon balance.

Edited by Snowcrow, 04 September 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Tweaks]

Snowcrow, on 04 September 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

This is how multiplayer games work. As time goes on, people get better. You can't expect to take a break for months and then be able to compete when you come back.

You're not teaching me anything I don't already know here. But that was not the point. The game itself changed, not the players so much. There's still a lot of new players to balance out the veterans, it's not so much skill that is my problem (I mean, other player's skills) but rather the style of game it's become with all those changes.

[Rascula]

Tweaks, on 04 September 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

flamers seem to be pretty decent or am I dreaming? They used to suck.

they still mostly suck, however im sure Koniving can tell you how to make them great (It baffles me, but if anyone can make them work then he can!)

[Sadistic Savior]

Tweaks, on 03 September 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

I bought a founders package as soon as it was available (first or second batch), and played MWO for several months until sometime last year. I took a break for personal reason, and recently just came back after several months to try the game again.

My only reaction (and it's not a good one) is "What the hell happened to this game?!"

State rewind for one...ballistics are WAY more accurate now. The server compensates for lag.

Many weapons have been tweaked, deliberately so. They are all more specialized than they used to be.

Players are better now...the ones that stuck around after you left have adapted and the new ones get advice from them.

I can tell you that it is not the game. I do not get legged that often actually. Light mechs seem to be aiming for legs more, but I usually die from torso coring. Most of my own kills are headshots or attempted headshots that hit the torso.

[DegeneratePervert]

mechspecs is a great place for builds and stuff, Tweaks. You should stop over there and see if you can find some builds you like. Also, like others have said, read up on the Ghost Heat system. I don't understand how it works personally, I just try to be more conservative with my weapons.

[Goose]

Sir: I think you've been gone long enough to have missed the removal of the Lag Shield; You're just going to have to improve your footwork …