65 replies to this topic

[Mechteric]

2 ERPPC are pretty freakin hot now, especially on some of the hotter maps I've come up against opponents that I just thrash with my brawling configs because they can't keep up with their firing.

[Lord Psycho]

I don't play in the ELO range that has poptarts...that and I learned to hide from poptarts. And in my opinion macro usage is just saying your skills aren't up to par.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Just to make something clear - these changes weren't meant as nerfs, but to specialize Gauss rifle and ER PPC to long range weaponry. Why don't you try to brawl with them and then call it a buff. Can't see it as a buff no matter how I look at it. Sniping is a relevant part of the gameplay and all this "poptart" hate is getting ridiculous..

[Khobai]

Quote

They don't run very hot even with the added heat.

Yeah they do. They run ridiculously hot now.

[KharnZor]

Kattspya, on 04 September 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Reads like scrub talk to me. Timing release and triggering PPCs are not a hard thing to do in isolation but add stress and ten other things you need to keep in mind and suddenly it is no longer a matter of skill but parallel capacity for doing stuff. A thing humans do poorly. You take your skill and go up against an equal with macros you will lose. Wanna play TFC or some versions of quake? I get to use scripts and you don't.

Of course it would to a poorly educated bottom feeder pleb. Get back in your hole. If you use macro's then you need to L2P. And as for Quake....LOL **** you dont even want to go there.

Edited by KharnZor, 04 September 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Ozric]

Both weapons were nerfed hard, make no mistake. But it is true that jumping snipers are less effected by the changes than non-jumping snipers, as the jump itself (plus the macro) mitigates much of the downside.

[WarHippy]

IV Amen, on 04 September 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Just to make something clear - these changes weren't meant as nerfs, but to specialize Gauss rifle and ER PPC to long range weaponry. Why don't you try to brawl with them and then call it a buff. Can't see it as a buff no matter how I look at it. Sniping is a relevant part of the gameplay and all this "poptart" hate is getting ridiculous..

I have tried to brawl with them... I find it easier than attempting long range shots with the gauss rifle. I want sniping and brawling to be relevant parts of the game, and I never had any issue with poptarts. I just don't like clunky game mechanics.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

WarHippy, on 04 September 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I find it easier than attempting long range shots with the gauss rifle.

I have to criticize the fact that you have only 1.25 seconds to fire the gauss round. If they want it to be a specialized sniper weapon, they have to give it also the viability to perform as one. 1.25 (+0.75) is a short time to lead on target and fire. At least for me, but I'm not that good.

[warner2]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

• Gauss charge up and PPC speed reduction makes return fire less of an issue for a poptart.
  
• Non-poptart sniper builds are now weaker (As a poptart the charge time is a non-issue as you nearly always know when you will need to fire and the cooldown increase is also a non-issue).

Yeah good points. Reducing PPC speed (to make them less effective) always threatened to amusingly make it harder to counter that style of play (who, again, amusingly use PPCs themselves).

[Joseph Mallan]

IV Amen, on 04 September 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

I have to criticize the fact that you have only 1.25 seconds to fire the gauss round. If they want it to be a specialized sniper weapon, they have to give it also the viability to perform as one. 1.25 (+0.75) is a short time to lead on target and fire. At least for me, but I'm not that good.

Agreed.
Snipers are methodical shots, they make lots of calculations and then need to fire "NOW"! A weapon charge is not a good mechanic for a Sniper weapon.

[MrZakalwe]

An odd feature of forums is people who feel the need to make a personal attack but don't actually have anything to add- there has been several good points made that refute some of mine (differences of opinion on how hot a mech runs, mainly) but all bar one focus on a brawl.

The heat issue bothers a jump sniper less than anybody else- unless it is enough to make them shut down it's a non-issue most of the time.

Lord Psycho, on 04 September 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

in my opinion macro usage is just saying your skills aren't up to par.

If community warfare ever takes off and suddenly there is a meaning to winning a game epople will use any edge they can get.

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Of course it would to a poorly educated bottom feeder pleb. Get back in your hole. If you use macro's then you need to L2P. And as for Quake....LOL **** you dont even want to go there.

Classic keyboard warrior. Priceless. Bonus points earned for having edited this post and it still coming across as written by a child throwing a tantrum.

P.S. The super secret message of this thread is that these nerfs hit the only highly effective build involving those weapons much less hard than all the non-problem builds.

PREDICTION: The only powerful builds involving PPCs/ERPPCs will now be jump snipers.

Edited by MrZakalwe, 04 September 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[KharnZor]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

An odd feature of forums is people who feel the need to make a personal attack but don't actually have anything to add- there has been several good points made that refute some of mine (differences of opinion on how hot a mech runs, mainly) but all bar one focus on a brawl.

The heat issue bothers a jump sniper less than anybody else- unless it is enough to make them shut down it's a non-issue most of the time.

P.S. The super secret message of this thread is that these nerfs hit the only problem build involving those weapons much less hard than all the non-problem builds.

PREDICTION: The only powerful builds involving PPCs/ERPPCs will now be jump snipers.

But only the ones that use macro's correct?

[MrZakalwe]

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

But only the ones that use macro's correct?

Doubtful- a good player who puts in the time can probably do it without. Macros simply ensure it is done perfectly every time something a human cannot do.

[Vodrin Thales]

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Voted no. You cant be serious surely.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.


In response to the OP. The heat generation is only a non-issue if you allow the jump sniper to fight on his terms. As soon as an opponent maneuvers effectively enough to create a prolonged encounter the jump sniper is toast. And the changes in projectile speeds are not making a significant difference in pinpoint accuracy with 2PPC/gauss. Now 2 PPC with AC10 on the other hand......

Edited by Vodrin Thales, 04 September 2013 - 08:37 AM.

[Doomstryke]

Well for anyone not using pop tart builds they will just toss in an ac20 instead or dual ultra, or ac10.

On my victor and highlander I replaced gauss with ac20 so i just forced myself to use a higher point alpha....
my 3D has been buffed. Since now the faster projectile speed on the gauss makes it sooo much easier to peg lights up close. You used to have to lead them so much and specially on arm mounted weapons. Now just aim tiny bit ahead and solid hits all around

Also the decrease in ppc speeds has buffed other combos as well. ac 5 for example is almost the same speed which makes pin point way easier with that. So in that reguards my dual ac5 + dual ppc k2/ jag also got a buff.

HSR fix was the biggest buff imo. Had a lot of fun last night no nerf noticed other then the tad extra heat

Edited by Doomstryke, 04 September 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Devils Advocate]

You're not accounting for the short window where you can release to fire. You've got 1.25 seconds to pick a target and if you're too early or too late you don't fire or your macro only fires the PPCs. If you're automatically firing in .75 seconds your aim better be amazing since your taking your finger off of the kill switch before you fire. ERPPCs generate significantly more heat and that's not a buff either.

And stop crying about Macros. That goes for everybody. "Players can cheat, so this is like a buff!" Guess what Einstein, anybody can pick up an aimbot or a wallhack too without much trouble and do well against you with whatever they have. It's really not hard to cheat if you put your mind to it. I guarantee you with 30 seconds on Google I can find you an aimbot if that's what you want. The idea that people can game the system and therefore balance is impossible is a selective argument only used when there isn't a real argument to be found anywhere else.

[Joseph Mallan]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Doubtful- a good player who puts in the time can probably do it without. Macros simply ensure it is done perfectly every time something a human cannot do.

Like firing 6 weapons and hit the exact same point with all of them... Yeah kinda like that

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 September 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Kattspya]

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Of course it would to a poorly educated bottom feeder pleb. Get back in your hole. If you use macro's then you need to L2P. And as for Quake....LOL **** you dont even want to go there.

My argument was that l2p does not enter into it. With equal skill a player with macros will beat the one without. How about sledgehammers at dawn then Mr tough guy?

I don't use macros but I did use plenty of scripts back in the day. If you ever fumbled a single rocket jump you can't l2p as good as a script. Scrub.

[Grifthin]

Your poll is phrased in a way that's to biased to take this thread seriously.

[Lightfoot]

You would have to be very naive to use a Gauss Rifle now. It's a stupid nerf that does nothing really except remove the Gauss Rifle from MWO. You can't make the macro you say work anyway, but like I said, why would you bother?

There was never anything special about the Gauss except that if your Mech only had one Ballistic hardpoint a Gauss Rifle could take up that space. So the Gauss was the only thing some assaults could make use of. The Gauss Rifle is otherwise mediocre. I can't believe the Devs swallowed all the nonsense on the forums about the Gauss being OP when a quick trip to Mechlab would show this was not the case.

The Gauss was used alot because new players could compete with it and build a mech with it without to much understanding of Mechlab. People on the forums spun that ease of access for new players into some paranoid delusion about "the new evil meta-meta" that must be crushed. It's a good config, but it's not the best sniper, so what was accomplished? Nothing. Except no one with any knowledge of MechWarrior weaponry will use the Gauss Rifle now.

The MechWarrior arsenal has so many different guns in it that all do about the same thing that the Gauss Rifle is completely expendable. They should have just given it a 5-6 second recharge. Anyway, bye-bye Gauss, MWO turned chicken instead of 31st Century Mech Combat.