64 replies to this topic

[C12AZyED]

Having more armour and overall health to burn through is a fantastic idea. Im always a fan of FPS games that have a longer time to kill. I dislike the "line of sight=death" approach that many games seem to be adopting nower days. What happened to Tribes and Unreal Tournament? Mechwarrior Online should be a game that upholds a longer time to kill, and increasing the armour further still will go towards doing that. I support this idea, although quadrouple armour might be a bit much, perhaps triple instead.

[TOGSolid]

To quote a great man: You can't fix stupid.

Mechs are already pretty beefy armor wise. Quadrupling armor will not help all those scrubs that think that marching right into the middle of the enemy is a good idea only to get obliterated in seconds. What will help new players is fixing the matchmaker so that new players aren't being grouped with vets.

[Riall]

That's why Ferro Fibrous should actually increase armor maximums instead of just reducing the weight of your armor by a relatively pitiful amount. In TT it was cheaper than Endo Steel in both C-Bills and Battle Value - neither of which matters in MWO. So there's no reason to not make it function differently. It then implicitly buffs the armor of lighter mechs who generally can get the slots for both Endo and Ferro Fibrous while making it a costly option for heavier mechs by reducing firepower due to crits being eaten up for the benefit of more armor. It's more player choice at that point and less heavy handed "assaults benefit more" problems.

[TOGSolid]

Riall, on 05 September 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

That's why Ferro Fibrous should actually increase armor maximums instead of just reducing the weight of your armor by a relatively pitiful amount. In TT it was cheaper than Endo Steel in both C-Bills and Battle Value - neither of which matters in MWO. So there's no reason to not make it function differently. It then implicitly buffs the armor of lighter mechs who generally can get the slots for both Endo and Ferro Fibrous while making it a costly option for heavier mechs by reducing firepower due to crits being eaten up for the benefit of more armor. It's more player choice at that point and less heavy handed "assaults benefit more" problems.

Agreed. Right now Ferro is just a ****** version of Endo. Making it a way to boost armor beyond the regular maximum would make it a much more interesting choice for the players with obvious drawbacks. More armor, less firepower.

[The Boz]

Multiplying anything would shift the balance over to the heavier mechs too much. However, adding a flat amount of health to all internal components would help out the lights more, and unlinking the rear armor from the front would benefit everyone. If light mech hit detection was fixed, and everyone gained, say, 15HP to all internal components, I could see that work well.

[Gaan Cathal]

Khobai, on 05 September 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

I would rather see internal structure increased instead of armor.

Because increasing internal structure doesnt change the number of armor point per ton like increasing armor does. So all our builds would remain exactly the same.

Additionally increasing internal structure would solve the problem with crits not mattering because the location gets destroyed before the items are destroyed.

This. Increasing internal structure would make for longer TTKs by extending the 'falling to pieces' stage of a mech's lifespan. At the moment you barely ever go a significant amount of time with lost equipment before the compartment housing it is lost, plus it would give crit-seeker weapons an actual purpose.

[XFactor777]

If this happens I will be in one of these immediately http://mwo.smurfy-ne...870451fc52d370f

Edited by XFactor777, 05 September 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[D0GMA]

Yea quadruple armor! And a new weapon, a healing ray! Oh, also we could have power-ups like quad damage or speed boost. Also you should just re-spawn if you die. Okay sorry for that, needless to say I don't really care for the idea. I've actually wondered what half armor would be like. Maybe people would stay together, use cover, and attack as a group. Anyway I like armor like it is now.

[Velixo]

Your friends are dying quickly because
A: Your friends are making mistakes like going out in the open, not using cover, etc (you'll learn the game over time)
B: They're using trial mechs.

EDIT: increased internals sounds interesting though. Gives LB-10X and MG's a more niche and better purpose

Edited by Velixo, 10 September 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Velixo]

TOGSolid, on 05 September 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Agreed. Right now Ferro is just a ****** version of Endo. Making it a way to boost armor beyond the regular maximum would make it a much more interesting choice for the players with obvious drawbacks. More armor, less firepower.

Just so you know, canon-loving people would go batsh*t. FF is supposed to do the opposite: decrease the max armor limit while freeing up alot of tonnage. Using some other armour type found in the lore (if it exists. otherwise - invent one) would be neat though.

Edited by Velixo, 10 September 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Kaldor]

TOGSolid, on 05 September 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

To quote a great man: You can't fix stupid.

Mechs are already pretty beefy armor wise. Quadrupling armor will not help all those scrubs that think that marching right into the middle of the enemy is a good idea only to get obliterated in seconds. What will help new players is fixing the matchmaker so that new players aren't being grouped with vets.

See my sig.

The problem is using ELO to get games lined up. ELO is broken at best in this game.

[TOGSolid]

Kaldor, on 10 September 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

See my sig.

The problem is using ELO to get games lined up. ELO is broken at best in this game.

Funnily enough, a huge part of Elo's problem right now was the Gauss/PPC meta. A lot of bads have inflated Elo scores due to that meta (as evidenced by how many people are whining about the Guass and PPC changes) and are causing matches to be more wacky than ever right now. It may almost be worth doing a straight up stat reset at launch because of tbh.

[HammerSwarm]

nice try, but no.

I give the attempt 2 flaming trolls of 5.

If I were to take you seriously I would propose doubling the tonnage of armor instead of the effectiveness. This would create a meta where you could be nearly invincible but not shoot back. It would force a real risk reward meta instead of just halving all of the weapons damage again.

[Felio]

The trouble with multiplying everyone's armor is that it greatly increases "time to kill" on the heavier mechs and has little benefit to the smaller ones.

I would rather see something like this:

Lights: Multiply current values by 2
Mediums: Multiply current values by 1.66
Heavies: Multiply current values by 1.33
Assaults: Leave current values alone

Keep in mind, heavier mechs not only get greater defense, they get greater offense, as well. Even with the armor gap shrinking, the weapon gap remains enourmous.

[The Boz]

Felio, on 10 September 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

The trouble with multiplying everyone's armor is that it greatly increases "time to kill" on the heavier mechs and has little benefit to the smaller ones.

I would rather see something like this:

Lights: Multiply current values by 2
Mediums: Multiply current values by 1.66
Heavies: Multiply current values by 1.33
Assaults: Leave current values alone

Keep in mind, heavier mechs not only get greater defense, they get greater offense, as well. Even with the armor gap shrinking, the weapon gap remains enourmous.

This would be even more hilarious. Spiders would pack the armor of a heavy. Are you on drugs?

Edited by The Boz, 10 September 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[Felio]

The Boz, on 10 September 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

This would be even more hilarious. Spiders would pack the armor of a heavy. Are you on drugs?

Those are ****** numbers and may be a little high, but generally, I think a fresh Locust should have an even shot against a wounded Atlas, yes.

It's only blasphemy because we've gotten used to the idea that some mechs should be terrible at combat, that there should be at least three of them to take down one that's bigger. But that's not game balance.

Speedy guys can do some things the big guys can't. They can cap, they can get out of tight situations or into others across the map where they are needed. But let's be fair. Combat is really, really important, and the big guys are much, much better at it. Someone getting some good licks in with an AC/20 can totally negate all the distracting and capping in the world. I know because I've done it.

Edited by Felio, 10 September 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[Truesight]

I will never realize, why they didn't reduce weapon dmg. If a gun shoots about 3 times faster than in TT, you just cut the dmg to 1/3rd of the original value, Of course you have to up ammo accordingly.

Since most weapons shoot about 2.5 to 3 times faster than "every 10 seconds", you would have more than double armor already.

Example:

PPC 4 seconds - 4 dmg
AC/20 5 seconds - 10 dmg


Easy as that.

[The Boz]

Felio, on 10 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Those are ****** numbers and may be a little high, but generally, I think a fresh Locust should have an even shot against a wounded Atlas, yes.

Obviously, the only way a light can challenge an assault is if the light carries the same armor type, but moves, turns, stops, and accelerates three times faster.

Felio, on 10 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

It's only blasphemy because we've gotten used to the idea that some mechs should be terrible at combat, that there should be at least three of them to take down one that's bigger. But that's not game balance.

Lights aren't terrible at combat. The rest of your argument is equally bad.

Felio, on 10 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Speedy guys can do some things the big guys can't. They can cap, they can get out of tight situations or into others across the map where they are needed. But let's be fair. Combat is really, really important, and the big guys are much, much better at it. Someone getting some good licks in with an AC/20 can totally negate all the distracting and capping in the world. I know because I've done it.

Lights aren't terrible at combat. If you are, you need to L2Pilot your mech.

[Urdnot Mau]

I was thinking about it these days. Sometimes i really feel like mechs die too fast, not by a pilots mistake or something like that, but because he's trying to fight and he can't take too many alphas while fighting back.

If you watch some closed beta footage the game seemed really fun. REAL brawling was going on like crazy and mechs could still be hurt by focused fire. I really wish battles could last longer...

[Khobai]

Quote

Mechs are already pretty beefy armor wise.

Not really. My Jagermech with triple UAC/5s and a single AC/2 can kill an Atlas in less than 10 seconds. That is not even an exaggeration, I seriously wish it was.

The truth is torso sections of mechs are way too easy to destroy. They need to substantially increase internal structure on torso locations.