26 replies to this topic

[Tweaks]

I just came back two days ago after several months of "break", and wow... I'm still in shock. It seems that the whole style of play in MWO has changed drastically from a true role warfare where every class had a chance if played correctly, to an "alpha to the CT" race were everyone is sniping in assaults or heavies.

Looking at the early dev chats and early talks about how the game was "supposed" to be, nothing suggested it would go downhill that much in that direction. It had such a good start, but now I'm extremely disappointed... and sad that I gave that I paid so much money for it (not that I blame anyone for that).

I've read many posts about other players who confirm what I see as well, so I know I'm not going crazy. With that new HSR thing that makes sniping so darn accurate now, it pretty much means that in order to survive long enough to deal enough damage, you need to have as much armor and firepower as possible, have the advanced zoom upgrade, and make sure you can hit the enemy in the CT before he does you. This means the only viable 'Mechs now, unless you're very very skilled in a coordinated lance, are the assault class and "some" of the heavies.

Forget lights; they die so fast now it's ridiculous. Jump jets seem to be nerfed too, or at least are less responsive than they were, so I can't even easily jump over and headshot bigger targets than me like I used to, even with 5/5 jumpjets. So other than to spot the enemy and run back to hide under mama's skirt (bigger teammates), they are pretty useless now. You may get lucky sometimes, and I have on occasions, but it usually ends badly. Sure you can still "try" to circle-strafe around a slow and sluggish heavy or assault, but more often than not, he'll just wait for that one shot and end you with it.

Mediums... not much better than lights except they can get a bit more lucky on opportunities. However, against anything bigger, unless they are in a pack, they have no chance if the enemy has enough firepower to alpha-out your CT in less than 3 shots... which most heavy/assaults do.

So... where is this game going? From what I see now it looks like the "role warfare" they promised isn't there anymore, or at least, changed so much that it's no longer recognizable.

I'm a solo player. I want to be able to join a pub game and still be able to make a difference in something else than a slow and sluggish assault 'Mech. I don't want to join a merc corp or a clan simply because I don't have time to play that much (I'm a new dad). I like to be able to quickly hop in and hop out when I need a fix. I used to be able to do this with ease several months ago before all those changes and I liked that.

Now... not so much. I feel I won't have any fun unless I have a fully upgraded assault or heavy with a huge alpha.

Is it really what I should be expecting from now on or do you think there's still a chance the game goes back on the right track?

Edited by Tweaks, 03 September 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Felbombling]

Gratz on being a new Dad, Tweaks. You missed the worst of the high alpha pin-point meta game, given that you've taken an extended period of time off. PGI are taking steps to snuff it out, but is slow going. My take is that the game will forever suffer from that style, but it will shift around to the best combination of weapons to achieve the high alpha.

[Tweaks]

Thanks StaggerCheck I just thought high alphas would have a huge penalty in heat, and that it would balance itself out that way, but seems like it's not the case anymore. I mean, alpha striking is supposed to be a one-shot-deal and then you have to ride the heat for a long while before it goes down... not really what's happening now though. I sure hope it changes.

[Kanatta Jing]

UI 2.0 will come eventually and with it changes to the Mech and Pilot skill trees.

It is suggested that the new skill trees will be the first steps in putting role warfare back into the game.

[Zolaz]

[Felbombling]

Tweaks, on 03 September 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Thanks StaggerCheck I just thought high alphas would have a huge penalty in heat, and that it would balance itself out that way, but seems like it's not the case anymore. I mean, alpha striking is supposed to be a one-shot-deal and then you have to ride the heat for a long while before it goes down... not really what's happening now though. I sure hope it changes.

The core game mechanics are set up on such a way as to allow for multiple high alphas and THEN the player has to ride the redline on the heat scale. Many players, myself included, feel that a graduated heat penalty system and a more heat neutral style of play would be better for the game than what we have now. Take what will happen after this patch... they nerfed the PPC, ER PPC and the Gauss Rifle and made it much more difficult to have that combination as the go-to high alpha meta. Sadly, the heat system is the same, weapon convergence is the same, and the current armour values are the same. What will happen, given that set up? Well, I imagine that the AC/20 + 2x Large Pulse Laser or AC/10 + 2x PPC builds will be the migration point. I would say Large Laser or ER Large Laser as an alternative, but the pin-point precision is not there. So, in true whack-a-mole fashion, the Gauss + 2x PPC sniper meta has been made less feasible, but the reasons for it developing in the first place are still here. PGI will forever be snuffing out problems like this, given that they are very reluctant to revisit some of their core game mechanics put into place during a very early design session years ago.

[hashinshin]

and DotA was supposed to be an objective map based around summoning ancient gods.

... once your playerbase finds a way to play the game that goes against what you want it's sort of asinine to say "NO MY WAY IS BETTER, YOU ALL PLAY THE GAME MY WAY!"

[Lefty Lucy]

To be honest, they could have done Role Warfare with the modules/experience system, by making some abilities only available to light/medium mechs.

However, they didn't.

[Kanatta Jing]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

To be honest, they could have done Role Warfare with the modules/experience system, by making some abilities only available to light/medium mechs.

However, they didn't.

Not to say that they still can't.

[stjobe]

Here's what we were enticed to part with our founder money for: http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont.

Read it and weep. It's all the things we don't have; things that would make proper role warfare a possibility instead of the current single-role game we have.

If "try to do as much damage as possible and hope for kills, assists, and savior bonuses" is even a role.

Edited by stjobe, 04 September 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[MrZakalwe]

What happened to role warfare? ECM, rubbish LRMs, third person view and seismic sensors.

Currently lights have a role because of hit detection and heavies/assaults have the same role but do it differently.

[Monoc]

It went the way of immersion design pillar.

[Devils Advocate]

"changed from role warfare"

Eh I've been around for a year and a half and I don't remember us ever having role warfare. All we've ever had is deathmatch with glowing boxes and the most damage won the fight.

"Forget lights, they die so easily. . ."

Gonna have to disagree on that one. Spiders are notoriously invulnerable and, again, for *many* *many* months before we had host state rewind the boards were completely filled up with complaints about how completely garbage it was that you couldn't hit a Jenner without aiming 200 feet in front of it with lasers. They're easier to hit now but useless? Every single game I'm in I see 4 or more. You're on an island.

As for the rest of it you should try actually using the forum instead of just posting on it. These issues have been handled about once a day for the last year.

[Alistair Winter]

PGI realized that while all the founders and other beta-testers were desperate to see role warfare implemented, they only represented a vocal minority and so PGI dropped the idea.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 04 September 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[FupDup]

1. Killers.

2. Cappers.


Choose your role.

[Frantic Pryde]

Role warfare is planned for after UI 4.0 I hear.

But seriously, I kinda wish they would never have even brought that stuff up. We where all desperate for info then and I kinda feel dooped now. I was a big time supporter and I feel like they knew they had all the die hard mechwarrior fans attention so they told us what we wanted to hear and then just made a Mechwarrior game that doesn't stand out in any great way from the others in the series. Which is not bad.... But it could have been truely great. I just wish they where clear from the beginning so that I wouldn't be feeling so dissapointed now.

[Jesus Box]

What happened is that they decided to nerf everything into uselessness to please the talentless community. They originally touted about all the different roles and builds you could have, but now they're pushing the game to have as little diversity or roles as possible. They are trending towards a game where EVERYONE will have a nearly identical 300m build. This community wants everything nerfed because they can't L2P, and PGI hears its cries. Instead of telling you to L2P like they should, they instead nerf the weapon you're crying about, even though the weapons didn't need it. "Oh, snipers are killing you? There there my child, it'll be alright, we'll nerf PPCs again and put a horrible charge system on Gauss. We'll fix it for you." The Heat Scale system is a nice big example of them fixing it for you when it wasn't really a problem. But you've already seen this BS before I hope, because the ECM was the same kind of {Scrap}. They did it with missiles, now they're doing it for boats and snipers. Soon it'll just be all 300m pewpew on this game, where everyone will have 2 of this, 2 of that, 2 of this, and maybe 1 AC 20. Everyone will be the same, all built for 300m, and whiners still won't be happy about it. They'll probably then complain about AC 10s.

[Team Leader]

Alistair Winter, on 04 September 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

PGI realized that while all the founders and other beta-testers were desperate to see role warfare implemented, they only represented a vocal minority and so PGI dropped the idea.

Lol, probably true though
"We need to attract new players. New players don't want to have roles they just want to kill everything no matter what"

[ryoma]

3PV happened

Why scout around in a light mech and gain knowledge while at risk when you can use 3PV and scout as a fastish heavy/sniper medium at no danger to yourself?

[DocBach]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

To be honest, they could have done Role Warfare with the modules/experience system, by making some abilities only available to light/medium mechs.

However, they didn't.

Really wish there was a more indepth skill system with MechWarrior levels and such - unlocking skill points to put in different trees, where one would have to specialize in skills that highlight a role rather than unlock generic trees for every 'Mech. I guess the system they have in place is to incentivize grinding or purchasing 'Mechs with MC, but its pretty boring compared to what it could have been.