40 replies to this topic

[NecessaryWeevil]

I think I'm a decent light mech pilot - I can score well with my Jenner - and I ground Cbills and XP for a while to Elite my 5D. So it's frustrating when people attribute any success I have to 'broken hitboxes.'

Are there videos of, for example, someone firing on a stationary Spider and not hitting when they clearly should be? It's not exactly conclusive to say "small, thin targets at 151 kph are hard to hit therefore there's a hitbox problem." I'm not saying you're wrong, but does anyone have conclusive proof?

[Blackfoot]

Heh, I hear ya OP. I been piloting a spider since way back when it was first introduced and sucked.

You seriously got mocked by your teammates for dropping with it.

Hitboxes are broken on all mechs, but of course its going to be the most prevalent with the smallest fastest mech in the game.

I can't wait until they fix the hitboxes so when I still get a couple kills and 500-800 dmg in my spider they can blame it on nothing but my solid piloting

[Johnny Reb]

Sorry you feel bad.... However, the spider is broken, like the Raven 3L before, thank goodness the spider cant be under ecm and streak ppl to death!

[Faithsfall]

While there are some very good pilot's in light's there is still an issue with the spider, case in question yesterday went up against a bad spider pilot ( you know the ones that stay stationry to shoot), he stood still capping our base so i moved towards him in my orion, and when i was close i fired my AC/20, i actually saw the round pass through the mech and no dmg was done. I managed to killed him on the 2nd shot as he still stood still firing.

Now this dosn't happen all the time, but compaired to any of the other lights if you manage to get the shot to connect it does connect, for some reason the spider seems to do a neo out of the matrix and dodge incoming fire with out seeming to move.

[Airu]

Didn't see any HSR changes with the latest patch while playing spiders, but to all the ppl still crying about hitboxes, I dare you to buy spider 5V, do 800 damage in a match and then come and tell how broken your hitboxes were.
Its true, in months playing spiders and other lights, I've seen them not register damage few times, same as I've seen assaults and other lights not register damage. But, by the amount people complain about spiders, one might think you can only hit it with evey 7th shot.

[Wolfways]

I hardly see any difference between Spiders and other lights. The Jenner is the toughest, but they all take a massive amount of damage to kill...except the Commando.

[dario03]

Airu, on 06 September 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

Didn't see any HSR changes with the latest patch while playing spiders, but to all the ppl still crying about hitboxes, I dare you to buy spider 5V, do 800 damage in a match and then come and tell how broken your hitboxes were.
Its true, in months playing spiders and other lights, I've seen them not register damage few times, same as I've seen assaults and other lights not register damage. But, by the amount people complain about spiders, one might think you can only hit it with evey 7th shot.

In my experience it seems that some people get the hsr shield and some don't, could also be a sometimes thing. I've been in matches where a spider seemed to register every hit fine and died really quick (like 15 seconds with 2 mechs shooting it). But yet in the same match another spider would do like you said and basically only register every 7th shot. That's what actually bugs me the most, nobody should have that shield but its completely unfair that some people have it and others don't. And I think that's where a lot of this "it's broke" "no it isn't L2P" comes from (well that and others not wanting to lose the shield).

[Devils Advocate]

It's player to player. There have been spiders I've sniped with my Gauss rifles from 600 meters and spiders I've hit in the chest with lasers as they ran towards me and had it only register a quarter of the damage. I think the deeper you aim on the spider the better your odds of actually registering the hit, but if they're strafing really quickly it only registers some of your damage no matter how stable your laser is.

[xenoglyph]

I think if lasers had a larger beam diameter for the purposes of hit detection that the Spider problem could be fixed overnight.

Edited by xenoglyph, 07 September 2013 - 02:14 AM.

[Ngamok]

NecessaryWeevil, on 06 September 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

I think I'm a decent light mech pilot - I can score well with my Jenner - and I ground Cbills and XP for a while to Elite my 5D. So it's frustrating when people attribute any success I have to 'broken hitboxes.'

Are there videos of, for example, someone firing on a stationary Spider and not hitting when they clearly should be? It's not exactly conclusive to say "small, thin targets at 151 kph are hard to hit therefore there's a hitbox problem." I'm not saying you're wrong, but does anyone have conclusive proof?

I hit a Spider last night with a Large Laser, damage didn't register. I spectated a guy with a dual AC/20 Jager put 3 rounds into a spider, flashed some damage, nothing else. Someone said that the jump jets might be causing it and some how desyncing the position.

[Lostdragon]

Ngamok, on 07 September 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

I hit a Spider last night with a Large Laser, damage didn't register. I spectated a guy with a dual AC/20 Jager put 3 rounds into a spider, flashed some damage, nothing else. Someone said that the jump jets might be causing it and some how desyncing the position.

I got shot out of the air in a SDR-5K by a GR last night and I have been killed using JJ several times before. Since the last patch SDRs seem less tanky than they were but the Jenner was impacted even more in my experience.

[Corbon Zackery]

You guys are getting into what called graphic geometry. Each section of a mech is made up of a number of 3d shapes. such as cylinders, triangles, squares rectangles.

So the surface area of a cube is going to be bigger than a cylinder and thus easier to hit with a weapon system. If you shrink the size of a shape you shrink the surface area.

The spider has some of the funkiest geometry since its more of a cylinder arms, slim rectangle RT, LT, Octagon CT., circle head, slim stick legs.

The issue with hit detection is due to torso and arm movement, and the contorting of the shape 3d shape. Imagine shooting at rectangle that's slightly twisted it may added extra surface area. It may contort the surface area in a way that there is a gap.

The other issues once you have the surface geometry done you can add a graphic skin over that geometry surface. So I could use the geometry surface for a atlas put a skin on it that gives the atlas rabbit ears however because the surface area of the atlas head is a circle the ears would be cosmetic in nature you see them but shooting at them would give that ghost effect.

Its heavy stuff.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 07 September 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Tynan]

I haven't played my spider since the recent patch, but it definitely *was* broken, far more than any other mech I've piloted. I can think of one particular instance where I was standing still, thinking no one could see me (stupid, yes, I know), and took a pair of AC10 slugs and just shrugged them off.

Of course, that's all pre-patch. Not sure how much better it is now.

[Gralzeim]

Johnny Reb, on 06 September 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

the spider is broken, like the Raven 3L before

Nothing is 'broken' with the Spider (the hitboxes have not changed since its inception and no one had issues with it back then), it's just an intermittent hit detection issue, that all mechs suffer from. But it's more noticeable on smaller mechs because it's already harder to hit those, so you pay more attention to the few shots that do land. That and they're more fragile. Having a PPC shot not register on a light mech vs. not registering on an assault mech is a big difference.

And the Raven wasn't broken before PGI screwed up its leg hitboxes because people couldn't wait for HSR, so they expanded its leg hitboxes beyond the actual model. Then they added HSR. Yeah, you don't have to visually hit a Raven's legs to hit the legs, now. How is that not 'broken'?

[Alistair Winter]

This was a problem when Spiders had MGs with exploding EMP ammunition, stripping an Atlas of its weapons in less than a second.

Today, the Spiders are almost back to their old state, and the 5D is again more common than the 5K. Which means they have roughly the same firepower as half a Jenner.

I rarely have any problems with Spiders.

[Chemie]

it is not just the hit box. it is hit detection.

You can fire 2 LL on the legs of the spider, have the rag doll blink the hit but do that 5 times and still be yellow armor. It does like 1 damage per hit (out of 20 damage).

[ferranis]

Hitboxes on lights are borked, even when the hits register (if they even do when the crosshair flashes red) only a fraction of damage is dealt sometimes.

And i am talking about AC20 and Large Laser here.

But it comes and goes, may be lag effected or not.

[Corbon Zackery]

Chemie, on 07 September 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

it is not just the hit box. it is hit detection.

You can fire 2 LL on the legs of the spider, have the rag doll blink the hit but do that 5 times and still be yellow armor. It does like 1 damage per hit (out of 20 damage).

That's not a hit box issue that's the water gun laser effect. Its 2 different issues that are coming together.

Because your moving, and the target is moving when you shoot the laser you get a splash effect were the damage splashes over a number of areas instead of directly at what you target. That's why its called the water pistol effect. Speed increases the water gun effect because you momentum is pushing you out of the target zone before the lasers fully discharge on the area.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 07 September 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Chemie]

Corbon Zackery, on 07 September 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

That's not a hit box issue that's the water gun laser effect. Its 2 different issues that are coming together.

Because your moving, and the target is moving when you shoot the laser you get a splash effect were the damage splashes over a number of areas instead of directly at what you target. That's why its called the water pistol effect. Speed increases the water gun effect because you momentum is pushing you out of the target zone before the lasers fully discharge on the area.

I disagree. I said legs because there are only two places to hit. Yes, maybe "some" miss but the main effect of that 20 damage is on target and should do real damage. Besides, this is not seen when hitting any other light. Why can I drill through a Jenner leg but not a spider?

Edited by Chemie, 07 September 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Sir Wulfrick]

I had a very strange experience whilst fighting a Spider last night in my Atlas K (yes, there is an AS7-K build that really does work!) Whoever the pilot was - I salute your skill Sir. Well done indeed, damned good job. However, during the course of the fight I must have put in excess of 30 hits with 2 x ER-LL in to the spider and the observed effect was limited to the Spider losing one arm. I'm pretty damned accurate with my lasers but even if only half of my shots should have been hits, that much damage to the upper half of a spider should kill it. It didn't even come close.

I don't see this issue all the time by any means, but for whatever reason (I'm not a programer or a 3D artist) the issue does appear to remain a problem.