68 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

There is no such thing as 4 mans sneaking into a drop. They are allowed and thus a legit force to deal with. Buck up its a team game. And the better team wins.

[Mark Brandhauber]

You do get premade free matches in the low elo brackets, I've seen them on my alt account for those 8 matches i was a low elo.... after that i found premades and wished i was with mine. The point being whilst yes you can play as a publicly ungrouped player; the ultimate goal is to find a group who compliment your play style. Personally I wouldn't get into giant stompy robot that couldn't communicate efficiently with the other giant stompy in your team; to me it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

However i understand some people just aren't team players in any ELO bracket so yeah a single only queue would stop them from charging the enemy on their own losing their team a valuable assault or heavy, So despite my earlier comment i agree a singles only queue would actually help the premades queue.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 September 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

There is no such thing as 4 mans sneaking into a drop. They are allowed and thus a legit force to deal with. Buck up its a team game. And the better team wins.

No wonder this game is down to such low participation that 4 mans can sneak into random games while the ELO fails.

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 09 September 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

No wonder this game is down to such low participation that 4 mans can sneak into random games while the ELO fails.

Cry me a river. I was a PUG in Closed Beta when 8 man drops where still allowed vs 8 PUGs. I didn't whine then I still don't. Your team is either the better one or you lose. Simple as that.

[Asakara]

lockwoodx, on 09 September 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

I only PUG, and have been stomped enough by 4 mans that sneak into random matches to know they make a HUGE difference but I'll totally agree with you that claiming it's the soul reason for a pilot's woes is silly. The crux of the issue is too few people participate due to how PGI has handled this game with the lack of dev communication, taking players money way before a live release, and balancing around FPS kiddies who want this game to be counterstrike. If PGI hadn't made so many mistakes along the way, and communicated more, PUGS wouldn't be in a situation where they are paired up with premades.

lockwoodx, on 09 September 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

No wonder this game is down to such low participation that 4 mans can sneakinto random games while the ELO fails.

[CeeKay Boques]

lockwoodx, on 09 September 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

No wonder this game is down to such low participation that 4 mans can sneak into random games while the ELO fails.

A Clanner would relish this challenge.

[Joseph Mallan]

Asakara, on 09 September 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am agreeing with how you are thinking!

[Ransack]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 07 September 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

So PGI please stop listening to the premades and their warped idea of balance!

Stopped right there.

PGI listening to ANYONE let alone Pre-mades is a laugh.

IF PGI listened to pre-mades, there would be no 3PV, and groups larger than four but less than 12 would not be left dangling in the breeze.

Don't blame pre-mades for this, put the blame squarely where it belongs, PGI development.

That said, they need to put in a solo queue already, BUT, their metrics may show that there is no need to subdivide their player base for it. Just like their metrics said about "Hardcore mode"

Edited by Ransack, 09 September 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[stevemac]

There would be the same complaint's if there was a separate Q for non premade aka friends having fun now as for the the OP saying 4mans are sneaking into the match please tell us how we sneak in when the match maker puts us there. I drop with my team a lot and trust me we have been stomped a few times in random matches. So it don't matter if your a synic drop or a random 4 man sometimes you get owned other times your the owner. its all in the luck of the draw. The only advantage 4mans have is the abilty to talk to each other and not running over the hill in frozen city getting our heads shot off 3 min into the match.

[Vodrin Thales]

There is a much larger advantage for a 12 man vs. 3 four man groups than there is for a 4 man in the pug queue. I really feel that those that drop solo only really ought not to weigh in on this topic as they have a rather warped view of the impact of a single four man.

As a player who regularly drops solo, in 4 mans, and in 12 mans I really don't have a problem with 4 man groups being rolled in with solo queue. My win percentage is the same in solo or 4 man drops and my chance of having a significant impact on the outcome is about the same either way. The one time I see pre-mades have a major impact on the outcome in the pug queue is when two groups from the same unit end up on the same team in voice comms. This is rare though so I can deal with it (my unit never sync drops, and I find this is true of most of the units I have come in contact with).

Most of the games where I roll or get rolled are just a case of which pug group sticks together and works together better, something that is not really dependent on having a 4 man.

[Iskareot]

One Medic Army, on 07 September 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

So, if premades are nothing without Teamspeak advantage, the logical way to remove their advantage is to give everyone in-game voice coms.

It's not to split the population into yet another set of subdivisions.

Also, as others have said, currently you're just assuming the existence of premades, I've seen plenty of times people will out and out lie and call themselves a premade when they aren't, just to shake the enemy.

Or do the easier things and actually give people a CHOICE? There is nothing wrong with pugging and or premades. By all means if there is nothing wrong with them then I am all for letting them play with each other for sure. Splitting the population up for THIS ONE is viable and important. This is not just a (ELO system) of wins vs losses and balance to lbs (Which by the way is so screwed up that yeah it could use a fix too). BUT the mere fact that we have to have the discussion tells you it is needed. You can smell the premades most of the time and you can tell from the colors to the convergence skill or play skill together that is seen quite often. I have played the game a long time now and I can tell you as a pug player most of the time and the idea I lost two friends that quit do the imbalance to the matches. I love the game, so do others but say all you want sometimes we like a fair playing field to join into. With the current issue of how the matches drop, this does NOT happen and that is a fact not an opinion. Knowing that you are on equal terms that the others are on then it becomes a fair match. Until we change the way we are FORCED into playing with 1 - 2 - 3 - four man premade teams, with possible vent or TS and the cohesiveness that a team can be right from the start and that has played together for 100 matches then the game will remain off balance.

[One Medic Army]

Iskareot, on 09 September 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

Or do the easier things and actually give people a CHOICE? There is nothing wrong with pugging and or premades. By all means if there is nothing wrong with them then I am all for letting them play with each other for sure. Splitting the population up for THIS ONE is viable and important. This is not just a (ELO system) of wins vs losses and balance to lbs (Which by the way is so screwed up that yeah it could use a fix too). BUT the mere fact that we have to have the discussion tells you it is needed. You can smell the premades most of the time and you can tell from the colors to the convergence skill or play skill together that is seen quite often. I have played the game a long time now and I can tell you as a pug player most of the time and the idea I lost two friends that quit do the imbalance to the matches. I love the game, so do others but say all you want sometimes we like a fair playing field to join into. With the current issue of how the matches drop, this does NOT happen and that is a fact not an opinion. Knowing that you are on equal terms that the others are on then it becomes a fair match. Until we change the way we are FORCED into playing with 1 - 2 - 3 - four man premade teams, with possible vent or TS and the cohesiveness that a team can be right from the start and that has played together for 100 matches then the game will remain off balance.

I PUG as often as I run with 1-2 friends, and I disagree with you on pretty much every single point.

Edited by One Medic Army, 09 September 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Iskareot]

One Medic Army, on 09 September 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

I PUG as often as I run with 1-2 friends, and I disagree with you on pretty much every single point.

What are you afraid of? Choice? Or that you and your friends when running together, using team work due to the automatic thought of it that would out perform a normal not as verbal, not as organized , not as (comm) driven by default pug? What would it do to your gameplay to cause you NOT to give the choice? It would not alter your gameplay at all. In fact it may give your premade team more of a challenge.

[Iskareot]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 September 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

There is no such thing as 4 mans sneaking into a drop. They are allowed and thus a legit force to deal with. Buck up its a team game. And the better team wins.

Thanks for the point of stating that as a team "as a legit force" to deal with. Thank you for that honesty. Also, you cannot expect a newer player or a pug that has no teammates in a vent, TS or that has not played with a premade prior to do as well as you and thus making the match imbalanced before it even drops. And that is the logical reason behind this. Yep it is a team game.. HOWEVER until PGI makes you only able to log in as a team or insists that you cannot pug but need to be in a team and that being a single player is not allowed then you may need to ask them to change that part first.

Edited by Iskareot, 09 September 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Iskareot, on 09 September 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

What are you afraid of? Choice? Or that you and your friends when running together, using team work due to the automatic thought of it that would out perform a normal not as verbal, not as organized , not as (comm) driven by default pug? What would it do to your gameplay to cause you NOT to give the choice? It would not alter your gameplay at all. In fact it may give your premade team more of a challenge.

What I'm afraid of is matches that are even worse tonnage imbalances, or playing as a team becoming "bring a full4 playing SRSBIZNS or go home".
Oh, and some of you guys playing PUG will still blame everyone else for your losses rather than yourselves.

[MnDragon]

for those that hate the PUG groups and think that premades are OP, I offer you some alternatives to perhaps assist you in your endeavor to become as OP as everyone else:

• Visit this forum: http://mwomercs.com/...then-look-here/ It will explain how to go to the recruitment forums and join a “premade” group. It will also explain how to download and install teamspeak and get to the comstar server where basically EVERY PREMADE GROUP IN THE GAME is on comms.
  
• Go to the TS3 server and do random drops. (yes it even tells you how to do that as soon as you logon so that you can meet new people)
  
• Get your friends to play and thus create your own premade

I hope that this helps you in your endeavors of becoming extremely OP and winning every match.
[/sarcasm]
But seriously, make friends…find a group, become a premade yourself.

[Taemien]

Technoviking, on 09 September 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is conjecture... often I think "Dang we got wiped, must have been a premade" Then other times, I think "Wow, we're playing like a premade!" Sometimes you have synergy, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you have team players, sometimes you have Rambos. The problem you are experiencing is because of the slippery slope of focus fire. If 3 or more mechs go down, the score can get lopsided fast. Just because it FEELS like its premades doesn't mean it is.

I might add that just because you're fighting a premade, doesn't make it a loss right out the gate. Sometimes premades aren't organized. Sometimes they are just having fun and are no more casual then a solo player. Sometimes they just get unlucky and take a wrong turn. Sometimes your team just does everything right and hits the premades hard.

Score perception is a weird thing in MWO or MechWarrior in general. Most people think a score of 12-2 or worse is a wipe, whereas it could have been a close game. Losing 2-3 people in a row causes a domino effect. But what could have really happened is those 9-12 mechs still standing could damn near be critical.

This is where I'd like to see an after action report like MechCommander where it showed the status of every mech at the end of the game. Lets you know what your team did wrong in some cases, especially if you feel not enough focus fire is a culprit (which is the cause of the majority of losses).

[Joseph Mallan]

Iskareot, on 09 September 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Thanks for the point of stating that as a team "as a legit force" to deal with. Thank you for that honesty. Also, you cannot expect a newer player or a pug that has no teammates in a vent, TS or that has not played with a premade prior to do as well as you and thus making the match imbalanced before it even drops. And that is the logical reason behind this. Yep it is a team game.. HOWEVER until PGI makes you only able to log in as a team or insists that you cannot pug but need to be in a team and that being a single player is not allowed then you may need to ask them to change that part first.

Sorry I didn't expect to do well when I first joined Closed Beta. I don't expect a boot to know his ash from a hole in the ground. I expect New players to get handed to. By teams and by Seasoned PUGs. It is called a learning curve after all. If you cannot accept losing til you have practiced then you should not be playing v living people. I played as a PUG until I had a 1.0 KDR. It took 6 weeks. Then I joined a group. My KDR has stayed just over 1.3 and I have PUGged for the last few (4-5) months, without comms.

So if you don't want to join a team and you are new you should get your but handed to you, until you have earned the experience to start aiding your team in victory. The fact is, a good player will learn from mistakes and get better. A Bad player will get stomped in the dust til they quit complaining about how the game isn't fair. Which are you?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 September 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

There is no such thing as 4 mans sneaking into a drop. They are allowed and thus a legit force to deal with. Buck up its a team game. And the better team wins.

I don't care if they sneak in, or are allowed in. PGI does it because they've lost so many customers. Regardless it still has the same effect on the community and game. Asking me to "deal with it" is like telling a player "Deal with quad damage". It shouldn't be there in the first place which was my point and the one that went way over your head. The apologists desperate on keeping their advantage would never be able to compete if they were forced into a bracket with other organized players so they troll PUGs and threads letting when causal players are just trying to let PGI know there's a problem, the sad pathetic individuals they are.

Edited by lockwoodx, 10 September 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Taemien]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

I don't care if they sneak in, or are allowed in. PGI does it because they've lost so many customers. Regardless it still has the same effect on the community and game. Asking me to "deal with it" is like telling a player "Deal with quad damage". It shouldn't be there in the first place which was my point and the one that went way over your head. The apologists desperate on keeping their advantage would never be able to compete if they were forced into a bracket with other organized players so they troll PUGs and threads letting when causal players are just trying to let PGI know there's a problem, the sad pathetic individuals they are.

Lost so many customers? Can you provide proof of that?