43 replies to this topic

[DannDruid]

Title says it all, I've almost finished elite on 3 cicadas is there any reason to buy a lighter mech? Thank you for your time, yes this is a serious question.

[PEEFsmash]

The value of Cicadas right now is slightly inflated because they have received the special "medium perks" whereas none of the lights have received any. However, the lights will receive their own perks soon.

Cicadas, in my eyes, are not a very good mech when compared to the Jenner-F, D, and Raven 3L. The first reason is that Cicadas can't go 150 without sacrificing too much. They also don't have jumpjets. And while they do have ECM and can theoretically do everything a Raven can, in practice it doesn't work out. Cicadas have massive CTs and really long legs which makes them easier to kill. They also don't have their hardpoints in as good of position as Raven 3Ls do if you are looking to peek>snipe.

However, there is one niche for the Cicada, and it is the 3M with 2 PPCs. Cicadas can use that little bit higher weight, mixed with an XL295 engine to do some decent cloaked sniping. It is a niche thing.

However, there is a reason that the Cicada has never seen much success in competitive 12 man play. Ravens and Jenners are lighter, typically better alternatives at most roles that lights can play.

[heleqin]

because the Jenner does everything the non-ballistic Cicadas can do, only better, faster, and with jumpjets. the only reason to buy a Cicada over a Jenner is ECM and Ballistic weapons (and a hero version if that's something that matters).

Don't get me wrong, Cicada's can be fun, but if you're looking at the 2A or 2B, stop and buy a Jenner F instead. if you're looking at the X-5 and are getting it for any reason other than the Hero bonus, stop and buy a Jenner D instead.

the Cicada 3M has ECM, (and one ballistic hardpoint, but you buy it for the ECM and run 4 lasers). but you'll probably be happier in a Raven with more weapons options or a Spider D, where you'll live a lot longer (the Commando 2D also has ECM, but its questionable if you'll live longer in the commando)

the 3C can run 4 machine guns and a large laser or a PPC, so if you run it with a PPC its marginally better than a Spider K, but you'll live longer and probably do more damage in the spider.

long story short, there's no reason to buy a Cicada at all when you can spend less C-bills or MC on a Light mech. that does the same thing, but better.

Edited by heleqin, 08 September 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Fred013]

It's a tradeoff. You want a bighitboxed, heavy firepower light? Go cicada. Want JJ? Jenner or spider. ECM? Raven or Spider. Adorableness? Flea.

[Ertur]

Real, macho, and uber-manly men drive mechs with teddy bears and rainbows on them.
That's why.

[627]

In short, size, maneuverability and jumpjets.

Basically you can do everything that light mechs can do but there is this size issue. You're much bigger and easier to hit than those small mechs.

Lack of jumpjets is self explaining.

And at last, you'll get outmaneuvered by them, even if you field an XL340. You're just not that agile, at least not in comparision with a jenner or a spider.

I'm a huge cicada fan, i even think about buying the 2B (i have all the others) and it's great fun to run with lights and other cicadas in a wolf pack. But at the end of the day, in a 1vs1 against a light you'll lose. maybe not against raven 2x/4x but most of the time they have an advantage.

[John MatriX82]

DannDruid, on 08 September 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Title says it all, I've almost finished elite on 3 cicadas is there any reason to buy a lighter mech? Thank you for your time, yes this is a serious question.

Until Sarah's mech was delivered to me, the lightest thing I had were Cicadas, I kept 2A and 3M. The latter can have some use as a light sniper as Smash said, it's a niche role that can be satisfying; the 2A is an heavier an bulkier JR7-F, you take 6 mls and 18 DHSs, but you can't be fast, hard-to-hit and jumpy as the Jenner F.

But after Sarah's I've enjoyed the Jenners, they are pretty good and fun to be used. Otherwise a 3L, but imho the pain to go through 2X and 4X isn't worth at least for me, while spiders don't attract me. Imho you could get some fun if you go with the Jenners, then you can see if others may fit you.

[Draconis March]

PEEFsmash, on 08 September 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

However, there is one niche for the Cicada, and it is the 3M with 2 PPCs. Cicadas can use that little bit higher weight, mixed with an XL295 engine to do some decent cloaked sniping. It is a niche thing.

Do you use PPCs or ER PPCs with that build?

[Linkin]

627, on 09 September 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

In short, size, maneuverability and jumpjets.

Basically you can do everything that light mechs can do but there is this size issue. You're much bigger and easier to hit than those small mechs.

Lack of jumpjets is self explaining.

And at last, you'll get outmaneuvered by them, even if you field an XL340. You're just not that agile, at least not in comparision with a jenner or a spider.

I'm a huge cicada fan, i even think about buying the 2B (i have all the others) and it's great fun to run with lights and other cicadas in a wolf pack. But at the end of the day, in a 1vs1 against a light you'll lose. maybe not against raven 2x/4x but most of the time they have an advantage.

I could go into an explanation myself, or just say agree with above because it is spot on.

Also, lights are like ninjas, possibly reason enough right there I can't wait for the 20 tonners,

[PEEFsmash]

Draconis March, on 09 September 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Do you use PPCs or ER PPCs with that build?

Standard. ERs are now far too hot, and now that the projectile speed has been slowed so much, shooting things from very long (ER) range is now much more difficult and unreliable anyway.

[Draconis March]

PEEFsmash, on 09 September 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Standard. ERs are now far too hot, and now that the projectile speed has been slowed so much, shooting things from very long (ER) range is now much more difficult and unreliable anyway.

I messed around on Smurfy, and the 2x ER Large Laser build I came up with seemed basically strictly better than the 2x PPC XL 295 build.

ER Large Laser build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18ee4465031147f

Contrast with PPC build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2c46212f16ee5b9
(If I'm doing something horribly wrong, please let me know.)

I knocked it down to an XL 285 to maximize heat sinks, and thus raise heat efficiency and DPS significantly. The speed decrease there is very minor. ER Large Lasers have longer range, and don't have a minimum range, which is better for when you tangle with lights, which is inevitable. Armor isn't great of course, but it isn't as important when you're sniping and being annoying. (But if you have a suggestion on how to better redistribute it, I'm open to suggestions.)

The PPC build does a little more damage in a single punch, but that minimum range and lower DPS kinda suck. I quite like the idea of being able to keep up a near constant hose of ER Large Laser fire.

[PEEFsmash]

Draconis March, on 09 September 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

I messed around on Smurfy, and the 2x ER Large Laser build I came up with seemed basically strictly better than the 2x PPC XL 295 build.

ER Large Laser build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18ee4465031147f

Contrast with PPC build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2c46212f16ee5b9
(If I'm doing something horribly wrong, please let me know.)

I knocked it down to an XL 285 to maximize heat sinks, and thus raise heat efficiency and DPS significantly. The speed decrease there is very minor. ER Large Lasers have longer range, and don't have a minimum range, which is better for when you tangle with lights, which is inevitable. Armor isn't great of course, but it isn't as important when you're sniping and being annoying. (But if you have a suggestion on how to better redistribute it, I'm open to suggestions.)

The PPC build does a little more damage in a single punch, but that minimum range and lower DPS kinda suck. I quite like the idea of being able to keep up a near constant hose of ER Large Laser fire.

If you watch my video guide also posted here in the light guide section, you'll see I use them both. If you are going to go ERLL, you should do it on a Raven because they are both on one side so you can poke very easily. I think that the ERLL build on Raven is better than the PPC build on Cicada, but that is mostly because the PPC projectile speed is now very slow, and the heat has been raised. The advantage of the PPCs is max damage all at once with minimum peek time, so the ERLL build is not strictly better, but in the current metagame I think it is the more reliable build.

[mailin]

Some friends and I were playing around with our Cicadas the other day. I loaded my 3M with mplas. First time out I did 600 damage. I enjoyed it so much I put 6 mplas on my 2A, I think it was. Hot but fun. Cicadas have two advantages over lights: The possibility of more firepower and heavier armor in the legs. This comes at the cost of no jump jets. The only reason the Raven and Spider are viable is due to the implementation of ECM. Otherwise the only lights you would see with any frequency would be Jenners. Depending on which Cicada is your favorite you may want to try either a Jenner for the Jump Jets, or the Ravens. If you're feeling really daring, you may want to try the Spider. Be warned though, one of the Spider variants is a pretty poor excuse for a mech.

[Fudowara Hakeido]

It's interesting to see people's justifications on the matter. I'm sure everyone has a different playstyle and a good mech for some may be horrible for another. Personally, I love the cicada. More so than the jenner even. I found it to be much more survivable. The jenner is a walking CT, almost all hits go into it. The cicada, is a bit bigger, and I see that as an advantage. With good torso twisting, you can spread the damage around yourself which is something you can't do in a Jenner(not even taking into account the slightly higher armor values of the cicada). Jump jets are great though...

[SchwarzerPeter]

The thing is, you have more tonnage to spare in a Jenner/Raven than in a Cicada at max speed (XL 340 is very heavy).
So you end with less gun power and bigger hit boxes. And you are not that agile.

So lights can pack more punch and are agiler at max speed.

The thing is, you have more tonnage to spare in a Jenner/Raven than in a Cicada at max speed (XL 340 is very heavy).
So you end with less gun power and bigger hit boxes. And you are not that agile.

So lights can pack more punch and are agiler at max speed.

[Darwins Dog]

To expand on what others have said, if you are running at full speed then a Jenner is better. It will be slightly faster, and have more tonnage available for weapons etc. Here's some math: Cicadas weigh 5 tons more than a Jenner, so on the outset a Cicada as more weight to use. When you consider that the the 340XL on the Cicada weighs a full 5 tons more than the 300XL in the Jenner, now you've lost everything you've gained. If you are at near max armor, then the Cicada carries about 2 more tons than a jenner, so now you have less weight to play with.

Here's the secret though: Run a Cicada with a 300XL and you have 15 tons to use for weapons and equipment. You will still run at 133.7 with speed tweak (20 kph slower than max) but that's enough free space to pack 2PPCs, Large lasers, an AC5, etc.

[Itsalrightwithme]

Draconis March, on 09 September 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

I messed around on Smurfy, and the 2x ER Large Laser build I came up with seemed basically strictly better than the 2x PPC XL 295 build.

ER Large Laser build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18ee4465031147f

Contrast with PPC build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2c46212f16ee5b9
(If I'm doing something horribly wrong, please let me know.)

I knocked it down to an XL 285 to maximize heat sinks, and thus raise heat efficiency and DPS significantly. The speed decrease there is very minor. ER Large Lasers have longer range, and don't have a minimum range, which is better for when you tangle with lights, which is inevitable. Armor isn't great of course, but it isn't as important when you're sniping and being annoying. (But if you have a suggestion on how to better redistribute it, I'm open to suggestions.)

The PPC build does a little more damage in a single punch, but that minimum range and lower DPS kinda suck. I quite like the idea of being able to keep up a near constant hose of ER Large Laser fire.

I built one with one PPC and one LLas and it was quite fun. It's a terrible "team mech" but a fun solo mech. You have to play very selfishly, steal kills, take opportunities then run away, and stay away from enemy lights. Kinda like the ERPPC Spider.

[ColonelKiel]

*Giggle*

I have a day and a half of playtime clocked in on my Bugs. Pretty sure the other boys in my crew have as much or more.

Cicada Swarm FTW

[Tyr Gunn]

I'm not gonna {Scrap} all over CDA's like some of the other dudes in this thread. Lights are great. So are CDAs. There are a bunch of "on paper" reasons listed here why the CDA doesn't make a viable light or medium. But there is one simple thing people are forgetting. Paper has no place on the battlefield.

I've been driving the CDA since it came out and I have several days of piloting time logged in them. They're not merely a big and heavy light. Nor are they a small light medium. In my opinion, they fulfill a striker role better than any medium can, and while lights can do an OK job as strikers, they're a little more fragile and therefore less viable in that role.

In short, experience wins, and the CDA serves a great deal on the field of battle. They are also great squirrel chasers.

Edited by Tyr Gunn, 10 September 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[RLBell]

John MatriX82, on 09 September 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Until Sarah's mech was delivered to me, the lightest thing I had were Cicadas, I kept 2A and 3M. The latter can have some use as a light sniper as Smash said, it's a niche role that can be satisfying; the 2A is an heavier an bulkier JR7-F, you take 6 mls and 18 DHSs, but you can't be fast, hard-to-hit and jumpy as the Jenner F.

But after Sarah's I've enjoyed the Jenners, they are pretty good and fun to be used. Otherwise a 3L, but imho the pain to go through 2X and 4X isn't worth at least for me, while spiders don't attract me. Imho you could get some fun if you go with the Jenners, then you can see if others may fit you.

I confess that I have used a RVN-2X in only seven matches. I would not have used it even that many times if a teamspeak buddy had not declared that he was going to run his 'useless Raven' [I had transferred enough points out of my main mech to elite my Ravens with GXP]. I dropped in my -2X with four medium lasers, an SRM6, a 245XL engine, endo steel, ferro fibrous, and as many DHS as remaining tonnage would allow (15). I got three kills in the first drop (one lone Atlas trying to rush base, and two cripples) and five more kills in the other six drops. You have to commit to it and drop the c-bills, but the -2X and -4X can be fun.

However, they are not like other lights. The -2X and -4X flit about the main fight pumping damage into mechs with bigger threats to worry about, or mechs trying to disengage. While it is annoying for the lights to steal kills, it is a better use of the heavy or assault's firepower to let the raven kill the weaponless cripples and move on to other threats. Ravens are the other kind of support mech-- helping the brawlers bring down enemies, or getting enemies to worry about their backs.

The only reason you might need to go light, if you have mastered Cicadas, is that when tonnage limits come into play, your team might benefit from an extra five tons going to a heavier mech.

Edited by RLBell, 10 September 2013 - 07:36 PM.