26 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

Wolfways, on 04 October 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

To be honest, with the way MWO has been diverting away from BT i wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road Bryan says "We aren't making a game based on Battletech/Mechwarrior. That was just our position at the time."

Why do people search the truth in holy books when i found it in this very statement?

[Pht]

CyclonerM, on 04 October 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Why do people search the truth in holy books when i found it in this very statement?

... there's some really heavy irony here.

The way the MWO dev team has been handling the text of the BT combat system very closely mirriors how theological liberals handle the texts of whatever "holy book" they happen to use... and exactly because of these ways of "interpreting" the "flavor" and "spirit" and "intent" they always and universally wind up saying things ... almost exactly like what wolfways has said.

A rather interesting can of worms, no?

[MayGay]

The only 3 valid IS weapons anymore (in the TT) are the medium laser, by the sheer amount of them that you can fire at 3 heat instead of 5, the standard PPC at 10 damage for 10 heat only issue is it is a bit heavy, and the Snub-nose PPC with a short range of 9. If we add physicals hatchets, swords and maces can go be added in the superior when on the right 'mech (ie a TSM berserker, 40 damage axe swings yay) but melee weapons are very situational and somewhat risky in that you have to be adjacent and ranged weapons go first so you have to survive and stay standing to hit, but when they hit they hit hard. And if it ever makes it in game here, imagine an atlas running at you at 120kph breathing fire and waving around a 7-ton axe that is as devastating as a pair of AC/20s.

[Serious Table]

Pht, on 07 October 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

... there's some really heavy irony here.

The way the MWO dev team has been handling the text of the BT combat system very closely mirriors how theological liberals handle the texts of whatever "holy book" they happen to use... and exactly because of these ways of "interpreting" the "flavor" and "spirit" and "intent" they always and universally wind up saying things ... almost exactly like what wolfways has said.

A rather interesting can of worms, no?

Do you know why that is? That's because the BattleTech combat system works on dice rolls and phases that happen every ten seconds. That doesn't fly in a real time action game. They're interpreting the rules as best as possible to make them fit the real-time combat that's presented in the Mechwarrior series. I'm sorry if that bothers you so much, but people pounding the pulpit for "Why isn't this Battletech?!" need to really do a bit of study in game design. Paper does not translate to real time unless you want randomization to happen, which means you take the skill away from the player and put it in the hands of a random number generator.

This works great for RPGs. That's a HORRIBLE way of doing it for a Mech Sim. The genres are so vastly divorced, a direct translation is impossible.

[Grumman]

I like what PGI has been doing. Making a game thats fun to play is more important than following every single TT rule. Way to go Devs.

[Pht]

Serious Table, on 07 October 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Do you know why that is? That's because the BattleTech combat system works on dice rolls and phases that happen every ten seconds. That doesn't fly in a real time action game.

First, it's not necessary to use a ten second recyle time on the weapons. Heat is the mechanic that controls ALL weapons mounted in any given mech - so if you want a faster recycle time, adjust the heat up; balance preserved.

Second - Do you know the TT combat mechanics? I mean the actual rules? If you do, have you made any serious attempt to see if they actually CAN be converted over? If you actually know the combat mechanics (all two of them) AND you've attempted to see if they could work in realtime ... could you tell us why you think it can't work in at least a little detail?

I actually did go and do this (yes, I have no "rl" ), and the TT combat maths will work in the reatlime - human skill and choices driven outcome format and make a fun game: http://mwomercs.com/...different-idea/

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They're interpreting the rules as best as possible...

Actually... they haven't. There's a very basic and foundational part of battlemech combat that they have left out - the 'mechs ability to calculate individual aimpoints for their weapons and the 'mechs ability to actually get those weapons aligned to those points. We now know what part of the TT combat system represents this part of the 'mech performance - straight from the people who control and maintain the Battletech IP.

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I'm sorry if that bothers you so much, but people pounding the pulpit for "Why isn't this Battletech?!"...

... I posted "why isn't this battletech?" or anything that lingustically has that meaning? ... ? Where?

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need to really do a bit of study in game design.

You know this about this class of people you're discussing ... how? You've talked to all of them? You've read a few and assumed all the rest are like the few you've read?

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Paper does not translate to real time unless you want randomization to happen, which means you take the skill away from the player and put it in the hands of a random number generator.

This is only true if you mean by "randomization" totally unpredictable results which aren't driven by player skill and/or choices... which doesn't even apply to the tabletop in the tabletop format.

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This works great for RPGs. That's a HORRIBLE way of doing it for a Mech Sim. The genres are so vastly divorced, a direct translation is impossible.

Simply not true.

[Losobal]

How would they incorporate things like targeting computers? Aimbot-lite?