52 replies to this topic

[Villz]

Ghogiel, on 08 September 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Read the command chair posts that explain it.

no it doesn't lol. ELO in a team based evironment works to the point that any cross polination occurs.

To which in this game it does.

Thats why these 12-0 steamrolls happen alot more often than u would imagine.

Either really good players play mostly solo and have artifically lower ELO than they would assuming they played in only 4 man grps.

And on the other foot there are players who only play in 4man grps and as a result have artificially inflated ELO's compared to if they played solo.

If the que allowed only for solo drops than it could be a contained system in that case eventually ELO would actually mean something.

But it is a figure that is even by the best stretch of the imagination not factoring in things (like different playstyles lining up, whether some1 is taking a serious mech or just having some fun etc etc the different play styles meeting up, whether or not u dropped a brawler on alpine etc) just purely a guess.

I personally hate ELO in a team based game.

Anyone who played wow pvp could relate to this by remembering the fact that when a new combination of players created a team the teams rating had to be reset from fresh. there is a reason for that ;-)

Edited by Villz, 08 September 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

I'm not leaving, yet anyway, but not spending another dime until its removed.

[Rhent]

I haven't bought MC in 3 months now and frankly I'm starting to think that the uninstall I did is going to stay that way for a long time. It isn't 3PV, its the general method for weapon balancing that the game team is taking and the fact that they never tested out on the public servers hard point limitations + convergence.

No matter what cockamamie scheme Piranha puts out involving heat as the exclusive limiter of weapons firing, its gonna fail and fail hard.

[Ghogiel]

Villz, on 08 September 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

no it doesn't lol.

There are command posts that explain how it rates matches and adjusts the ratings of players.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1626065

Quote

ELO in a team based evironment works to the point that any cross polination occurs.

To which in this game it does.

Thats why these 12-0 steamrolls happen alot more often than u would imagine.

I don't think PGI has stated the % of 12-0s since 12v12 went live. But they did release that data for 8v8s. I don't have to imagine since we (did) know how often it occurs.

Quote

Either really good players play mostly solo and have artifically lower ELO than they would assuming they played in only 4 man grps.

That's not "artificially low". That's just their rating. Everyone is subject to these same rules. Over many matches good players will have better Elo ratings than bad players. That's what counts. I would go so far as to say it would be statistically impossible terrible player will have say a 2500 Elo and be playing with the high ranked players.

Quote

And on the other foot there are players who only play in 4man grps and as a result have artificially inflated ELO's compared to if they played solo.

Again, that's just their rating. Because they consistently perform as well as they do, there is no other choice but to rate them high and have the match maker match them with other players that also perform similarly.

Quote

If the que allowed only for solo drops than it could be a contained system in that case eventually ELO would actually mean something.

if you say so.

Quote

But it is a figure that is even by the best stretch of the imagination not factoring in things (like different playstyles lining up, whether some1 is taking a serious mech or just having some fun etc etc the different play styles meeting up, whether or not u dropped a brawler on alpine etc) just purely a guess.

Elo doesn't care about you playing the game at 15fps on an archaric laptop in low resolution, whether you play tired or are running troll mechs. What matters is your previous performance. That's the only info it needs to determine mathematically how you measure up.

[BaconFat]

1ceTr0n, on 08 September 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

I've come back to the MWO community and game again after being basically gone since December after the {Scrap} storm of crying about LRM's and Double heatsinks being nerfed and was playing for a small amount of time around June and I continued to see much of the same whining and crying from the "hardcore" and "SIM" players in regards to how "dumbdowned" MWO was becoming vs the old school MW2 days, which I remembered playing when I was 12.

Now i'm 33 and have a busy life schedule and just wanna be able to jump into a game for a few hours, play, blow {Scrap} up, have fun, talk smack and log off as I see fit and not have to engage my mind very much as I have to do that day and day out for my daily work routine and my gaming is supposed to be a relaxing and decompression time for me, simulations style gamplay just simply does not allow me to have fun and relax.

Essentially, my hardcore PC gaming days are become more and more console like in which I want more basic games for me to enjoy and spend my money on if I deem them worthy enough. And apparently, thy poop has hit the fan at a very high speed as it looks like 3rd person view did actually get into the game while i've been gone moving out of state for a new job and it seems A LOT of people have had enough with whatever PGI's tactical plan is for the game which seems to be caterring to more of the general and basic gaming crowd.

But guess what? That's the market that has the "MONEY" Yep, PGI is business like any other thats not non for profit. Yep, you need cash to pay your workers to keep a game working and upgraded. This is not the mid 90's anymore. The market demands for games have change for good or bad. The gaming public wants more instant satisfiaction and less work involved to play/buy video games, wether it be PC, mobile or console. The simulation crowd of the Jane Simulator PC games, Flight Sims, MechWarrior 2 etc..etc... is a very small niche nowadays and guess what? Small niches = low profits in any market, even if its not video games.

PGI I think is likely aware of how many people they haved pissed off with the dumbing "down" of MWO by adding the 3rd person view and not making it a more tactical simulator. So sorry guys, but the general video game crowd has the most money and as the field of dreams movie has a saying

"If you build it, they will come"

Well, MWO is building into an arcade style mechwarrior game now and thats what the market wants and thats what PGI is gonna cander too, me included now that im an older PC gamer and wanna just have basic fun for my gaming nowadays. I actually wanna be able to see my mech walk around and see my sweet paint jobs on my mech now that 3rd person view is finally here, im downloading the game now and looking forward to blowing stuff up once again.

Haters and hurt feelings people should leave, it will allow more room and better opportunties for people who wanna play this game for what it is and won't have to listen to this constant griping and complaining, we are tired of it and we are not sad to see the veteran players of MWO leave because a good portion of the time, they were the ones who have NEVER been happy with the game and have trolled the game and forums with their unhappiness of PGI's vision of MWO.

Good riddance if you are done, start your own Mechwarrior project and do it your way. Stay if you wanna have fun, see you on the battlefield

This guy is the reason and type of player that makes pug battles so fraking bad and no fun for those who like to win...its no fun losing. These types who just wanna 'have fun (losing)' and 'unwind' need a separate just wanna have fun lobby/server so those of us who like to win and play a challenging game can have at it.
Please good sir continue playing with your consoles as that is where just having fun is...with the 10year olds and other unwinding zombies.

[nitra]

1ceTr0n, on 08 September 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

casual gaming rules ...

There is a lil project called star citizen

it caters to a "niche" demographic of, has-been players that reminiscence in the olden days.

fortunately for the company creating star citizen 240,000+ niche players managed to raise 18.3 million and counting for a game dedicated to old school hardcore sim like pc game play.

The industry has deluded its self that free to play is the future and that casual gamers are going going to keep them afloat through tough times . Sure they have enjoyed their popularity, but coming into the free to play market at this stage of the game is a bit late .

I guess its ok that you feel this game is good enough and the rest of us can toss off, enjoy your lil game. im sure it will tide you over till your next diversion . its a shame it devolved to such a substandard entry into the free to play market . and while you may not care or even realize, you could have really had a better game.

hopefully it will last long enough to develop those features promised long ago. . then maybe you will understand why so many were upset.

[Sybreed]

Rome II: Total War got pretty dumbed down.

See how that went for the reviews.

[Stealth Raptor]

Zanathan, on 08 September 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

You partially missed the point. While a lot of players were disgruntled with being forced to have both 3PV and 1PV in the same game most of us were annoyed purely by the fact that PGI did not inform us of their intentions prior to releasing said functionality. It wasn't even in the test servers for a brief test and no player feedback was garnered beforehand. So the main concern many of us have is how PGI will be handling future changes without consulting the playerbase prior or saying one thing and then doing another both of which are valid concerns.

actually it was, i tested it myself and concluded it was useless even then lol

http://mwomercs.com/...-test-schedule/

[Deathlike]

Wolfways, on 08 September 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I saw some of the same players five matches in a row last night. With a big player base what are the chances of that?

Well, it's Sunday... and American football is commencing.

Clearly, the mass cares more about US football than MWO.

I hope you're not experiencing this while solo pugging... because that is the sign.

Edit:

I've experienced the same effect Saturday, having 5+ games where some of the same players in the same game (BlackDrakon was one of them) being on both ends (teammate and enemy) AND on winning and losing ends.

Yea... "big" playerbase. That's assuming you are taking PGI's word as gospel.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 September 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Wolfways]

Deathlike, on 08 September 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

I hope you're not experiencing this while solo pugging... because that is the sign.

Yes i am

[Ghogiel]

nitra, on 08 September 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

fortunately for the company creating star citizen 240,000+ niche players managed to raise 18.3 million and counting

One rich person actually has paid 100k into that game. I nearly fell over...

[Deathlike]

Wolfways, on 08 September 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Yes i am

You have high ELO, or the playerbase is as small as I'm thinking it is.

Did you try grinding something else after multiple "failed to find a match" responses? ELO is different between weight classes (all of your light mechs use the same ELO, same with the mediums, heavies, and assaults).

That would be the only thing that would "address it".

Still, I'm sure PGI will tell you "everything is working as intended™".

Edited by Deathlike, 08 September 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Seddrik]

OP seems to be under the impression that hardcore gamers are so few and have no money they aren't worth the time of day. So, does that mean PGI will give me my money back? If they did, I'd write a thank you note and log off for good. Because this sure isn't the game I paid for & it isn't getting any better.

If PGI wants to be a kiddy arcade game, fine. But don't advertise as something else (a hardcore game) and then pull a switch.

I won't hold my breath on getting a refund.

[Wolfways]

Deathlike, on 08 September 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

You have high ELO, or the playerbase is as small as I'm thinking it is.

Did you try grinding something else after multiple "failed to find a match" responses? ELO is different between weight classes (all of your light mechs use the same ELO, same with the mediums, heavies, and assaults).

That would be the only thing that would "address it".

Still, I'm sure PGI will tell you "everything is working as intended™".

I haven't had any "failed to find a match". I just kept seeing the same players. Tonight i've seen the same player in my matches about half a dozen times, both of us using various weight classes.

[Deathlike]

Wolfways, on 08 September 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

I haven't had any "failed to find a match". I just kept seeing the same players. Tonight i've seen the same player in my matches about half a dozen times, both of us using various weight classes.

Oh... well, I doubt you're intentionally sync dropping, but you are experiencing the same related "side effects" of sync dropping...

The only way to "avoid it" is not immediately dropping within 120 seconds (2 mins) of your last match... but if that's still occurring, it is truly what I'm fearing... not enough people in the queues.

[Wolfways]

Deathlike, on 08 September 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Oh... well, I doubt you're intentionally sync dropping, but you are experiencing the same related "side effects" of sync dropping...

The only way to "avoid it" is not immediately dropping within 120 seconds (2 mins) of your last match... but if that's still occurring, it is truly what I'm fearing... not enough people in the queues.

Tonight we were in a few matches together (not sync dropping, we don't know each other), i had a break for around 30minutes, and then we were in the same matches again. He jokes that i'm stalking him now

[Johnny Z]

infinite xaer0, on 08 September 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

yeah, the game is still fun and the hardcore crowd is gonna get more or less what they're asking for.. eventually... sooooo eh, we should all chill out and just keep playing

Regardless of the low ball spin put on this subject, wanting to play a mech sim is so far from hardcore it isnt even funny. Labeling those that want to play a simultion mech game as "hardcore" or "competitive" or "none casual player" is just wack.

[Deathlike]

Wolfways, on 08 September 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Tonight we were in a few matches together (not sync dropping, we don't know each other), i had a break for around 30minutes, and then we were in the same matches again. He jokes knows that i'm stalking him now

Fixed.

But seriously, this would barely happen if the queues weren't that small though.

Even during the tournies... people you know are participating in them show up for like 1 or 2 games max, and then you'd like not really see them again... and these people keep launching like nobody's business.

Now, it's hard to say that's the case.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 September 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Takony]

Dear 1/10 troll, hope you are enjoying your casual endless cbill grind.
Best regards.

[Kaarde]

1ceTr0n, on 08 September 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Now i'm 33 and have a busy life schedule.....

PGI I think is likely aware of how many people they haved pissed off with the dumbing "down" of MWO by adding the 3rd person view and not making it a more tactical simulator. So sorry guys, but the general video game crowd has the most money and as the field of dreams movie has a saying

"If you build it, they will come"

Well, MWO is building into an arcade style mechwarrior game now and thats what the market wants and thats what PGI is gonna cander too, me included now that im an older PC gamer and wanna just have basic fun for my gaming nowadays. I actually wanna be able to see my mech walk around and see my sweet paint jobs on my mech now that 3rd person view is finally here, im downloading the game now and looking forward to blowing stuff up once again.

Haters and hurt feelings people should leave, it will allow more room and better opportunties for people who wanna play this game for what it is and won't have to listen to this constant griping and complaining, we are tired of it and we are not sad to see the veteran players of MWO leave because a good portion of the time, they were the ones who have NEVER been happy with the game and have trolled the game and forums with their unhappiness of PGI's vision of MWO.

Good riddance if you are done, start your own Mechwarrior project and do it your way. Stay if you wanna have fun, see you on the battlefield

I chopped this up to get to the relevant parts.


First off, you say you are 33 and an "older" pc gamer. I've got 10 years on you easily, and my preference as well as many of us old codgers is to keep the complexity in. Guess what, we all have busy lives as well. So your argument doesn't cover of all of your "older" gamers. Likely mine doesn't either. I suspect it falls somewhere in the middle.

Secondly, PGI is likely aware of how many of its customers it has torqued off with its antics over the last year. This would represent its self in lower incoming dollars, dropping micro transactions, and a smaller player base with which to try to have MM build drops for. Considering the people who gave this company 5 million as a kick starter were among the most rabid fans of the IP and that this would never be much more than a niche game, I find it fairly obvious that you wouldn't want to alienate such a large portion of your base.

To think that 3pv and arcade gameing is going to bring in and retain a larger group of players is nothing short of laughable. They may come, but they likely wouldn't drop the money that the hardcore fans would. You are deluding yourself.

And to go telling yet more players to toss off because we voice our concerns over the hack job that this developer is doing isn't going to help keep this game alive much longer. In fact you are showing your lack of foresight in doing so. Hope you enjoy seeing "Failed to Find Match" messages when you try to drop if you persist with this attitude.

Additionally, concerning your statement of having people leave to "make more room and better opportunities for people who want to play this game". Are you under the misconception that the servers are full? Hate to break it to you pal, those "haters" likely care more about this game and IP than you or any of your arcade buddies do. If they didn't do you actually think they'd kill so many pixels discussing it on the forums?

Lastly, learn to edit, proofread, and or spell check. Your post is nigh incoherent and looks like a 12 year old wrote it on a Yoohoo high during a rage fit.