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The "new" Economy - Why It Sucks And How To Collect


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#1 Deathlike

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:39 PM

The new economy sucks. Full stop. It is almost not possible to collect anything close to a raw 200k in C-bills that IS NOT boosted by premium time NOR a hero bonus. It is realistic however to collect something along the average lines of 100k per match... if you know how to "work the system". Also, I will provide tips for the new player that needs to decide on their starting mech... because the game is unforgiving when you make a mistake.

The problem with the new C-bill growth metagame:

1) It doesn't reward properly for those that contribute a lot to the match.

2) It rewards people that "sprays and pray" (a common RTS term for people that shoots weapons that have a cone of fire at random directions) or what they are also known as "tourney players".

3) It punishes people for playing Conquest.

It is understood that people who appear to have contributed most in the match should be well rewarded. The problem is that this is never the case.

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So, I did like 2nd most damage on the team, but I get rewarded with just that much? Mind you, this happened almost 2 hours ago, and that ended with a spider coring me after I had removed its legs, allowing my teammates to collect the kill to end the match. I don't have the same need for c-bills as the next newbie, but moneywise that is unrewarding. The XP is a better reflection of what I accomplished, since XP scales to my contribution to the match. Outside of the fact that savior kills are easy collections of XP and C-bills, I did my part.

However, the guy who did the most damage in the match isn't collecting c-bills... there's a better chance that those players that got the 10 assists collected more C-bills than he did... and let me get to point #2 as to why.

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These are matches in which I have collected stupid amounts of money, for practically doing "relatively little". I'm the kind of guy that doesn't mind "poking" the bear as it were... shooting targets with long range weaponry will net me money as long as the targets I am poking dies by my teammates or my own hand. It's kind of the same logic with XP, except it that it doesn't scale as well as it should.

You might say "what about damage dealt, shouldn't dealing damage give you some money?"

Refer to another post I wrote about the how much money you would collect:
http://mwomercs.com/...uick-breakdown/

For every point of damage you deal, you get only 21 C-bills.

So, if we have the "minimum" expectation that a player contributes 150 damage... they will collect 3150 for their efforts (21 * 150 = 3150). This actually LESS than what you would get for a kill assist in Conquest, which is 3200 C-bills.

It is actually unlikely that under the current 12v12 system that you will get incredible damage... unless you're some sort of missile boat blocking out the sun with your LRMs/"lurms" or your teammates are not picking up the slack. Even if you did, you're not well rewarded.

Also... kill assists are practically worth the same as a kill in Assault. If you do the math, and consider that every kill INCLUDES a component destruction (which is the mech's CT), the money made there is practically the same. There is pretty much no distinction between either.. unless you're in a tourney when it comes to scoring...

Savior and Defensive kills have been a gamechanger ONLY in the sense that you must be somewhat lucky to collect. If you are effectively doing a roflstomp of your enemy, you won't be collecting many of these.... but if the game is kept close, chances this "free money" will come into play... however a lot of this happens to do with luck.

If you're a newbie however or play a completely terrible match... this is what your match rewards can look like:


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I'm sure there are many matches that look just like this... especially ones that involve straight out capping. In Conquest, this may not be an issue.... but this brings me to point #3..


Conquest was nerfed recently... for reasons that made no sense. I used to recommend that Conquest was great for collecting C-bills... but after the nerf...


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I collected only 5000 in C-bills on that match. The resource score in that match was 402. If I had won that match, the C-bills differences right then and there would have increased to 20000 C-bills. If you lose now, your time is not worth the money. Even if the nerf was just 1/2 instead of 1/4 of what you would win, the difference of another 5K is staggering.... but outright nerfing C-bills from 20k to 5k is a 15K C-bills difference... that is huge when you are used to be told as a newbie that Conquest is best route to collect money. It is simply not the case anymore.

Also, remember that in Conquest, all the basic rewards... kills, assists, AND component destruction is reduced and "replaced" by the resource system. Note that you get almost 1000 more in C-bills for kills in Conquest than assists. Remember that Conquest is supposed to favor light mechs for their ability to move to caps quickly. Of course, this is negated significantly due to cap times and the lack of rewards for doing just capping.

So... I hope everyone has been enlightened by this post. If you want to learn the basic tricks to making money in MWO... it is summed up in 3 points:

1) Poke every mech with any weapon... as long as that mech dies at some point or you won't collect. It's even better when you poke a mech that you probably won't be able to finish off directly.

2) Help your teammate kill a mech that's hurting it. If you collect a saviour kill, that's a bonus. That should be a normal part of being a good teammate. Also, it helps to kill enemies trying to cap for the Defensive Kill bonus.

3) Avoid playing conquest. It is a waste of your time if you're a newbie, but just as much as waste of your time if you need the money.

I was going to write something about the newbie thing, but I'll post something specific soon.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 September 2013 - 01:41 PM.


#2 Hellen Wheels

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:43 PM

The "new economy" doesn't have any affect on me, apparently, I just cruise along making about the same as I always have, and have built up a balance of between 70 and 90 million c-bills over the last year. I can't see why it would be any harder on anyone else. I don't need to "work" any "system" to earn what I need.

Working as intended, I think. But that's just my humble opinion. There is no "trick" to earning C-Bills, other than playing. If you're focused upon how many C-Bills per hour you are earning, then I think your priorities are misplaced. But that's just me.

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 01 September 2013 - 01:50 PM.


#3 Deathlike

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The "new economy" doesn't have any affect on me, apparently, I cruise along making about the same as I always have, and have built up a balance of between 70 and 90 million c-bills over the last year. I can't see why it would be any harder on anyone else.

Unless they don't have any booster packs, like the stuff you pay for in the game....what are they called now, "Hero" mechs? The ones that give you bonuses?

Working as intended, I think. But that's just my humble opinion.


I've seen more collected when playing in 8v8s than this... which is part of the problem.

#4 Hellen Wheels

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 01 September 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:


I've seen more collected when playing in 8v8s than this... which is part of the problem.

It might be part of YOUR problem, but it certainly isn't part of mine. Do you greed IRL, too?

I think its fine. Your mileage may vary.

#5 Deathlike

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

It might be part of YOUR problem, but it certainly isn't part of mine. Do you greed IRL, too?


Well, personally, I'm not THAT affected. The problem is that the adjustment is a lot less obvious for other people to benefit from.

Making money is one thing, but sometimes it's how you get the money that matters. In this case, taking advantage of a bad system is not my problem.

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I think its fine. Your mileage may vary.

Sure. Noone said everyone was going to be happy with every change.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 September 2013 - 02:09 PM.


#6 Kushko

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The "new economy" doesn't have any affect on me, apparently, I just cruise along making about the same as I always have, and have built up a balance of between 70 and 90 million c-bills over the last year. I can't see why it would be any harder on anyone else. I don't need to "work" any "system" to earn what I need.

Working as intended, I think. But that's just my humble opinion. There is no "trick" to earning C-Bills, other than playing. If you're focused upon how many C-Bills per hour you are earning, then I think your priorities are misplaced. But that's just me.

So what you are saying is that if its ok for someone who piled up 70-90mil pre C-bill nerf, has founder/hero mechs and has probably already acquired all the mechs they'll ever need (other than novelty), then its ok for everyone?

Any chance you could try to put yourself in a casual or a new players shoes? Granted they get the cadet bonus, but more times than not from what ive heard, new players pick a mech they dont like with the cadet bonus since it never actually explains to them the importance of picking the right first mech with the "free" c-bills or how to even pick the right mech. After that first "free" mech and a rate of progression that leaves them feeling good (too good in fact), they get dumped in to earning 40-100k per game (for new players id say the average being more in the lines of 50-60k) and asked to farm ~30h for the next mech they want.

This problem will only get worse with the implementation of weight limits; "You only have that 100ton Atlas? Yah sorry you cant team with us, we need someone in the 40-55ton range." Or 2 friends just starting MWO both getting 75+ton mechs with cadet bonus and realizing they cant play together in a 2 man team of 150+tons.

The few friends i got in to MWO felt like progression was slow for casual gamers even before the c-bill nerf (and it was a big nerf; 30-50% reduction in hourly earning is nothing to sneeze). The sad truth is, that in the state MWO player progression is in now, i would not dream of recommending it to anyone else.

#7 Onmyoudo

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:30 AM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The "new economy" doesn't have any affect on me, apparently, I just cruise along making about the same as I always have, and have built up a balance of between 70 and 90 million c-bills over the last year. I can't see why it would be any harder on anyone else. I don't need to "work" any "system" to earn what I need.

Working as intended, I think. But that's just my humble opinion. There is no "trick" to earning C-Bills, other than playing. If you're focused upon how many C-Bills per hour you are earning, then I think your priorities are misplaced. But that's just me.


You must be trolling, seriously.

#8 Kushko

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:56 AM

View PostOnmyoudo, on 02 September 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:


You must be trolling, seriously.

Its just her opinion, nothing wrong with that. There are quite a few players that feel that way about the new economy but most of them played enough in the previous economy and/or have hero mechs+premium so they amassed enough wealth that it does not really effect them much and they dont really have much left to farm for other than some novelty mechs.

I just wish they could put themselves in to a new players or a casual players shoes and think for a moment how the new economy is for them. I understand their point of view, but i wish they understood ours and in the end if PGI improves the economy again we'll all be better off (or more so they wont care and we'll be better off :)).

There is a chance that PGI nerfed the income in preparation for role rewards but tbh thats just a moronic way of doing it...if it really is the case they should have waited until the actual role rewards were put in to compensate for the lower overall income. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

#9 Boyinleaves

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:17 AM

People need to be encouraged to play the game.

Why? So there will be people to play with. I like being idealistic, but F2P games need players, and incentive often means more players.

How? Give them something that they enjoy. For some, this means a fun or well-balanced gameplay experience. For others, it means providing a perception of progression in a time frame that feels acceptable (in MWO's case, buying more 'Mechs/equipment). The current 'economy' may be perceived to be more unpleasant purely because it is relative to the old economy.

Details? As Deathlike said, reward good play on a better scale. Encourage players to exhibit more teamwork, or general piloting and gunnery skills, and give them some options for earning C-Bills, such as match-by-match rewards for specific achievements.

Result? Greater variance of player reward, players incentivised to get better, perceived higher reward for players who care about 'progression'.

Problems/Unintended Consequences? PGI don't have a C-Bill sink, apart from incidental consumables. They have no long term solution to maintain a perception of progression or allow for experimentation other than purchasing new 'Mechs.

Caveat? Everything is relative, and there are a lot of other issues with the game that, if fixed, could make the current rate of C-Bill income less relevant or less of an issue for some people.

Conclusion? In the short term, Deathlike is correct, inasmuch as his points relate to new players, and those concerned about customisation and new 'Mechs. I find my desire to play unaffected by the current economy directly, but it affects my friends' desire to play the game, and it affects the desire of many current players and probably every new player quite significantly. Fewer players affects everyone's gameplay experience and thus, my desire to play is indirectly affected.

In the long term, one can only hope that the many issues with MWO are fixed, and the negative feeling regarding this particular issue does not cause too many players to leave nor discourage new ones from joining.

#10 Scromboid

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:45 AM

Hellen, what you are missing is that this is a part of the game that is bothering players. When players find something about a game they do not like, they do not play as much. Eventually, they find other games they like to play better and move on.

For your 90mil to matter, you need other players.

Also, think, if there was something that upset you in the future about this game and you were trying to get it fixed, do you want some ****** like yourself coming along saying "no, that's fine. i dont see anything wrong?". No. It is useless and pointless.

Posting in this thread with your responses is like stopping on the side of the road to help someone who is broken down and saying "I've had my car for 10 years and this has never happened. I don;t know what you are doing wrong", then driving off.

#11 Onmyoudo

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:01 AM

View PostKushko, on 02 September 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

Its just her opinion, nothing wrong with that. There are quite a few players that feel that way about the new economy but most of them played enough in the previous economy and/or have hero mechs+premium so they amassed enough wealth that it does not really effect them much and they dont really have much left to farm for other than some novelty mechs.

I just wish they could put themselves in to a new players or a casual players shoes and think for a moment how the new economy is for them. I understand their point of view, but i wish they understood ours and in the end if PGI improves the economy again we'll all be better off (or more so they wont care and we'll be better off :)).

There is a chance that PGI nerfed the income in preparation for role rewards but tbh thats just a moronic way of doing it...if it really is the case they should have waited until the actual role rewards were put in to compensate for the lower overall income. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


Regardless of whether it is his/her opinion or not "It's not a problem for me so it's working fine" is a pretty poor attitude to take.

They came for the casuals...

#12 AntzRevenge

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:49 AM

I just finished a match in my muromets where i finished with 883 damage, and collected 213,000ish cbills with premium time. 2 kills 8 assists. If i had done this match in a regular mech with no premium time I would have earned 118,000cbills.

If a match that effective will only earn 100k how can we expect new players to ever be able to buy anything after their initial 20 or so matches or whatever it is? How do they know what to buy with their bonus income without spending time hunting through the forums.(but the only people who look at the forums are the non-target demographic vocal minority apparently, so they wont.) How do they know that Cicada 3C they think looks cool is a BAD idea?

I am not a new player, so I know what chassis are effective, effective builds, effective weapons, how to play according to the build i'm running and the way my team is advancing. A newbie will not have that benefit. So now they run in to the very middle of the fight with their flamer wielding Dragon (actually saw this) because they don't know any better and die a lot. Earn a pitiful few thousand cbills a match, and quit forever.

If they bother to take the time to research and find out why they keep dying, they will realize they need a new mech. Or at least new weapons. So they spend a 3 days of pain grinding enough cash for a gauss rifle to put on their still inferior mech (good luck using it once you have to charge it though!). They start to play better, still dont earn many cbills and realize them it will take days upon days of serious play time to be able to afford a good mech, and then out fit it with the required DHS and Endo-Steel! Good lord! That is another month! Then finally they have a great mech with a great build. Congratulations.

Now their win % is up to like 25% because their brilliant brawler DDC is useless in terra therma, alpine, tourmaline, on top of the usual learning curve, bad team, plain old losses etc. Then they realize they need to earn money to at least change over to a ppc/gauss build so they can be useful on any map. Fantastic, tack on a few more days. Then they want to master their mech, and they realize they have to buy and outfit 2 more Atlai! 2 more, that is at least a months work of SERIOUS play time.

You either have to be ok with/be able to afford near constant use of premium time/hero mechs, or have the time/willingness to be able to play for HOURS at a time. I realize that a F2P needs to make money some how, and it should take longer to earn things 100% in game than using any premium service or real currency. But to arrange the economy such that playing MWO will have to become an all consuming thing to avoid putting real money into it is nothing short of a cash grab/pay to win.

Edited by AntzRevenge, 02 September 2013 - 07:52 AM.


#13 Lefteye Falconeer

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:55 AM

The "new economy" is not final. They are about to implement a real "new economy". They hinted about it but of course released no details. So anyway, things are not cool right now, but looks like some significant changes are coming. No idea if good are bad ones, just saying the economy at the moment is more a placeholder than anything.

#14 Deathlike

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:56 AM

View PostLefteye, on 02 September 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

The "new economy" is not final. They are about to implement a real "new economy". They hinted about it but of course released no details. So anyway, things are not cool right now, but looks like some significant changes are coming. No idea if good are bad ones, just saying the economy at the moment is more a placeholder than anything.


I keep hearing "placeholder" when it comes to Assault, and look how that turned out.

The adjustments to Conquest are atrocious though, and it makes less sense to nerf it at least without a corresponding buff. That's an issue IMO.

#15 Kushko

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:11 AM

View PostLefteye, on 02 September 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

The "new economy" is not final. They are about to implement a real "new economy". They hinted about it but of course released no details. So anyway, things are not cool right now, but looks like some significant changes are coming. No idea if good are bad ones, just saying the economy at the moment is more a placeholder than anything.

Why in the name of all things good would they put in a nerfed placeholder economy weeks/months before upgrading it back to where it should be with role/achievement cbill rewards? And to be perfectly honest i have very little faith in PGI and their ability to actually make good/right decisions at this point so i wouldnt be all that surprised if the "final" economy turns out to be even worse than the current one.

#16 Dodger79

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:19 PM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The "new economy" doesn't have any affect on me, apparently, I just cruise along making about the same as I always have, and have built up a balance of between 70 and 90 million c-bills over the last year. I can't see why it would be any harder on anyone else. I don't need to "work" any "system" to earn what I need.

Working as intended, I think. But that's just my humble opinion. There is no "trick" to earning C-Bills, other than playing. If you're focused upon how many C-Bills per hour you are earning, then I think your priorities are misplaced. But that's just me.

"I earned a lot while the old economy was in place" isn't a very good argument for "the lesser earnings with the new economy is no problem" ;-)

I too earned many CB with the old economy. But i didn't stockpile it. I spent it on customizing my Mechs, "burned" it by selling a chassis i bought for let's say 10 millions and customized ist for another 5 mill (DHS, Endo etc.) after i had leveled the pilot skills for just 2 millions or sth near that, bought several modules of the same kind to not have to switch them everytime i play another Mech etc. Now i have only 10 millions and i dare to spend them simply because to few CB are added now and i will need _lots_ of CB to customize all the Mechs i will get with the Phoenix package. My spending days in MWO are definetly over with the new economy just because the benefit of spending real money os to low now...

#17 CrashieJ

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The "new economy" doesn't have any affect on me



yeah, on YOU, but it's affecting me hard.

you're not the only one who plays MWO

#18 Urdnot Mau

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:15 AM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

It might be part of YOUR problem, but it certainly isn't part of mine. Do you greed IRL, too?

I think its fine. Your mileage may vary.


Being HIS problem does not mean that it is only his problem. Does not mean that other people won't have that problem.
I can safely say, based on old footage of mine, that i was making 80 k on a bad match, 130 k on an average match and up to 160 k on a good match. Now, i get 40 k on a bad match, 90 - 100 k on an average match and 130 k on a good match.

I don't know what reason people would have to doubt it... they lessened the amount of cBills on the things you do. It's there for you to see in every match you play...

#19 EyeDie I

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:13 AM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 01 September 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The "new economy" doesn't have any affect on me, apparently, I just cruise along making about the same as I always have, and have built up a balance of between 70 and 90 million c-bills over the last year. I can't see why it would be any harder on anyone else. I don't need to "work" any "system" to earn what I need.

Working as intended, I think. But that's just my humble opinion. There is no "trick" to earning C-Bills, other than playing. If you're focused upon how many C-Bills per hour you are earning, then I think your priorities are misplaced. But that's just me.


so your stockpile of cbills is prenerf? i have 1800 MC for mechbays, i have 3 mechs 1empty mechbay and 2.5mil cbills,so now it will be 2 or 3 months or more before i need to buy MC.i can wait till next year to spend more real money.

Edited by EyeDie I, 03 September 2013 - 05:56 AM.


#20 Tskeet

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:17 AM

But at least we now have endless amounts of Mech XP due to the "First win of the day" (sic), right?

Oh wait... That's another ploy to sell MC because you can easily earn 2k MXP in one match which means after a week of casual playing or less, you already have far, far too much excess mech-specific XP. MC time!


I hate to become a cynic, but come on. Has anyone actually tried to get friends interested? This game just isn't working for most people who are sane and can't spend 4 hours a day gaming.





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