12 replies to this topic

[1nferno]

Will increasing double heat sinks to times 2 from times 1.4 balance out this game's weapon systems? I'm thinking it will make for a more variety of weapon systems being used on the battlefield. Getting tired of UACs being the most effective weapon.

[Wintersdark]

Good lord, its been like a week with uacs being favoured.

DHS changes aren't why uacs are the thing right now, its just that they are outputting higher DPS than anything in the game regardless of heat.

[1nferno]

Wintersdark, on 08 September 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Good lord, its been like a week with uacs being favoured.

DHS changes aren't why uacs are the thing right now, its just that they are outputting higher DPS than anything in the game regardless of heat.

Woah there hot shot, my question is will making dhs 2x instead of 1.4 create a more balanced weapon systems loadout for everyone. My post title isnt "WHY ARE UACS SO OP RITE NOW" is it?

[Xione87]

1nferno, on 08 September 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Woah there hot shot, my question is will making dhs 2x instead of 1.4 create a more balanced weapon systems loadout for everyone. My post title isnt "WHY ARE UACS SO OP RITE NOW" is it?

No, it probably won't make a more balanced game. An increase from 1.4 to 2 is really big, it could instantly bring back ERPPC boating. Instead of any haphazerd solution which will affect every weapon system out there, just wait untill they change the UAC5 functionality.

Personally, I'm hoping they use a jam/overheat over time mechanic like MWLL uses for the UAC's. It will still have great burst DPS, but after a few seconds of shooting it will inevitably jam if you don't stop holding down the trigger and then other weapons will catch up.

[Wintersdark]

1nferno, on 08 September 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Woah there hot shot, my question is will making dhs 2x instead of 1.4 create a more balanced weapon systems loadout for everyone. My post title isnt "WHY ARE UACS SO OP RITE NOW" is it?

Well, given your OP contained "Will increasing double heat sinks to times 2 from times 1.4 balance out this game's weapon systems? I'm thinking it will make for a more variety of weapon systems being used on the battlefield. Getting tired of UACs being the most effective weapon. " I'm sure you can understand my confusion. You're getting tired of UAC's being the most effective weapon, when they have been the most effective weapon for about a week?

In answer the the first part, no. Heat has no relation to why the UAC is so effective, as I said in my post, it's all about the DPS.

Our DHS are 1.4 because heat is supposed to be the prime weapon limiting factor, and unfortunately in the translation from TT to MWO's realtime combat heat is pretty wonky. If DHS were 2.0 without other changes, there'd be even more problems than now, because the heat-based controls would be even less effective. With that said, there's room for more dissipation through heat sinks in general, but it would have to come alongside a reduction of (or the total removal of) additional heat capacity from heat sinks. A high heat capacity is what leads to a lot of problems we have with regards to alpha striking.

Not to mention how DHS are already the superior choice in 99.999% of builds, making them better would just make them that much more mandatory.

[1nferno]

Xione87, on 08 September 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

No, it probably won't make a more balanced game. An increase from 1.4 to 2 is really big, it could instantly bring back ERPPC boating. Instead of any haphazerd solution which will affect every weapon system out there, just wait untill they change the UAC5 functionality.

Personally, I'm hoping they use a jam/overheat over time mechanic like MWLL uses for the UAC's. It will still have great burst DPS, but after a few seconds of shooting it will inevitably jam if you don't stop holding down the trigger and then other weapons will catch up.

Agreed

[Solomon Ward]

DHS 2x and reduce the Engine Internal DHS to 1x.

[1nferno]

Solomon Ward, on 08 September 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

DHS 2x and reduce the Engine Internal DHS to 1x.

Solomon Ward, on 08 September 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

DHS 2x and reduce the Engine Internal DHS to 1x.

But why?

[Mechteric]

DHS are already the most effective upgrade in the game. Why exactly would they buff something that is already the ubiquitous thing to have?

[Mawai]

1nferno, on 08 September 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

Will increasing double heat sinks to times 2 from times 1.4 balance out this game's weapon systems? I'm thinking it will make for a more variety of weapon systems being used on the battlefield. Getting tired of UACs being the most effective weapon.

No. I don't think it will.

That said, I think PGI should have taken the opportunity of "beta" to test proper DHS to see the impact on the game.

PPCs and ERPPCs now run extremely hot again ... back to the status of closed beta more or less. If anything, these may have been over-nerfed. True DHS would perhaps help balance this better (keeping in mind that inherent DHS are already true doubles ... it is only the extras that are 1.4) ... though without testing it is hard to tell.

However, these changes would not affect the UAC5 ... the only reason the UAC5 is the fit of the moment are the changes to PPC/ERPPC and Gauss so that the UAC5 gives the best balance of heat and dps. UAC5 didn't change at all ... just the balance of other weapons. UAC5 is no more overpowered at the moment than it was last month ... but last month there were alternative choices.

Unfortunately, MWO has had so many issues during development - lagshield, hit detection issues - which were subsequently mitigated to some extent by netcode improvements and host state rewind among other things. However, the balance decisions on weapons systems and the implementation of double heat sinks were made before these balance affecting changes were implemented. There is no way to tell whether proper DHS would actually help or hurt the game balance and PGI has been negligent in not testing these types of changes over the past 6 months during what they called "beta" ... the chances of them testing such changes after release drops significantly I would expect (unless they can get their test server running again and really use it to test these kinds of changes).

[Alex Warden]

1nferno, on 08 September 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Woah there hot shot, my question is will making dhs 2x instead of 1.4 create a more balanced weapon systems loadout for everyone. My post title isnt "WHY ARE UACS SO OP RITE NOW" is it?

no it will just enable more sutained dps for almost all weapons, which would be very very bad... DHS are totally okay as they are, and i use a great variety of weapons... in fact, i use almost all of them in my mechs...

[Orkhepaj]

there is plenty of middleground between too low 1.4 and too high 2.0
laser mechs are nearly unusable on some hot maps, except if you overfit them with sinks

well thinking about maybe it is not a heat sink problem but that some weapons just generate too low heat ,so by increasing some weapons heat generation , they would be forced to not shoot nonstop ,which could make the game more skillfull

[Firewuff]

Orkhepaj, on 10 September 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

there is plenty of middleground between too low 1.4 and too high 2.0
laser mechs are nearly unusable on some hot maps, except if you overfit them with sinks

well thinking about maybe it is not a heat sink problem but that some weapons just generate too low heat ,so by increasing some weapons heat generation , they would be forced to not shoot nonstop ,which could make the game more skillfull

The problems is Laser Boats will ALWAYS suffer on hot maps. on cold maps they have high firepower and will never run out of ammo unlike AC based mechs. The trick is to build Laser mechs with a variety of weapons... my Jenners, 3-4 small laser and 1 ER large. Even on the Volcano map I can constantly fire with the smalls for a long period on chain fire. Alpha... no hope.

Moving the DHS dissipation higher means more high alpha builds and more cheese builds. Also it would enable 3x AC2 to constantly fire as well, at the moment thats not possibly because the heat build up is too high.