19 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Joining a match in your first trial mech against experienced players in custom mechs is probably not a great way to be introduced to MWO. You have very little chance of doing well because stock mechs obviously aren't as powerful as custom mechs, plus you're new.

Why not give new players their own queue to learn in?
Make a stock-only/trial mech queue where new players can fight other new players on equal ground.

Also, there are some current players who have said they would enjoy playing stock mechs, and these players are probably the right type of player who will help newbies by giving them advice.
They may not do as well as more experienced players but at least they won't be instantly pounded into the ground.

Another reason is that most players in current matches are playing to win, and can get annoyed that a new player is on their team.

Make new players play in the stock-only/trial queue for the first 25 matches before they get the choice of playing against custom mechs, or playing with stock mechs with others who choose to play there (with mechs bought from the mechlab as normal, but can't be customized).

[Johnny Z]

Hey this is my idea!! I am sure this has been thought of lots j/k

But ya a 8v8/4v4 or so with stock mechs or light stock mechs for first few matches is an excellent idea. Get a medal or something afterward.


These matches could be called recon or frontier matches and so on.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 September 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[Glaive-]

Aww, no stock queue for experienced players?

[Wolfways]

Johnny Z, on 09 September 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Hey this is my idea!! I am sure this has been thought of lots j/k

lol it's an old idea that keeps popping up now and then, but PGI never seem to listen.

armyunit, on 09 September 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

Aww, no stock queue for experienced players?

While i'd like to see that too i very much doubt PGI would make a separate queue for experienced players, and this is just a fading hope that they'd do it for new players. At least experienced players could use it too, and help teach the newbies

[Firewuff]

its really not required to have an explicit separate queue if the match maker is working properly.

[Wolfways]

Firewuff, on 10 September 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

its really not required to have an explicit separate queue if the match maker is working properly.

Did you even read the OP?
How would the MM match only stock/trial mechs?

[Tweaks]

Yes, as long as only cadets can join. We don't want this to become a killing spree haven for veteran players.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Its not about non exp players only, Is about whare we can have a place without "pay to win" sistem. Whare competitive oriented community can fight on even terms without interupting "pay to win" model, but maybe on "pay what you want" model.
Actually I would pay extra for mechs that can not be customized.
On a side effect that would bring much more CBT feeling to game. I want to face a real hunchy 4G, a real GRF-1N etc. Not some hbk-4g with 2 gauss. 4g is a damn 4g, And I can have some expectation to what this mech can do and what definitly not, Right now with current meta if I see a 4G name I can expect nearly everything, The mech name doese not mean anything, just a skin, and general class.
Add a BV (battle value) and class limits based match making system, specially designed for clan events. BV can be ported from TT basically 1:1. And we slowly will have a game that all core players and founders was dreaming about. Besides mechs like PNT-9R would find a place in such a enviroment, as a cheap support, so bv would be putted somewhare else for support team mates designed to front line. Inpossible in current state of game.
Mechwarrior community is about clans and competitive gaming. If you want a designated player base that can be with you for years, constantly paying for a new content you must adress this audience. And I dont see much choices here. You can keep your quasi rpg style of meta for pugs, but give us an "arena" whare we can fight for real.
Or this game will die sooner then you expect, as you will stay with flip flaping pugs that will move somewhare else after a short.

[Johnny Reb]

Even us long time players want this. It's not fun for us to have new ppl on our side or the the other side.

Jaeger Gonzo, on 11 September 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Its not about non exp players only, Is about whare we can have a place without "pay to win" sistem. Whare competitive oriented community can fight on even terms without interupting "pay to win" model, but maybe on "pay what you want" model.
Actually I would pay extra for mechs that can not be customized.
On a side effect that would bring much more CBT feeling to game. I want to face a real hunchy 4G, a real GRF-1N etc. Not some hbk-4g with 2 gauss. 4g is a damn 4g, And I can have some expectation to what this mech can do and what definitly not, Right now with current meta if I see a 4G name I can expect nearly everything, The mech name doese not mean anything, just a skin, and general class.
Add a BV (battle value) and class limits based match making system, specially designed for clan events. BV can be ported from TT basically 1:1. And we slowly will have a game that all core players and founders was dreaming about. Besides mechs like PNT-9R would find a place in such a enviroment, as a cheap support, so bv would be putted somewhare else for support team mates designed to front line. Inpossible in current state of game.
Mechwarrior community is about clans and competitive gaming. If you want a designated player base that can be with you for years, constantly paying for a new content you must adress this audience. And I dont see much choices here. You can keep your quasi rpg style of meta for pugs, but give us an "arena" whare we can fight for real.
Or this game will die sooner then you expect, as you will stay with flip flaping pugs that will move somewhare else after a short.

Pay to win bull in this game.

[Wolfways]

Tweaks, on 11 September 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Yes, as long as only cadets can join. We don't want this to become a killing spree haven for veteran players.

If experienced players can join, yes newbies in trial mechs will still have a tough time, but nowhere near the instant death they experience joining regular matches now.
Plus there are players who would love to play with stock mechs. It seems to me that non-customization fits better with PGI's "the heat system must be important" and players will actually have to choose which weapons to fire instead of spamming low-heat weapons.

[Modo44]

Nah. Separating solo PUGs from premades is all that is needed.

[Typhoon Storm 2142]

Wolfways, on 09 September 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Joining a match in your first trial mech against experienced players in custom mechs is probably not a great way to be introduced to MWO. You have very little chance of doing well because stock mechs obviously aren't as powerful as custom mechs, plus you're new.

Why not give new players their own queue to learn in?
Make a stock-only/trial mech queue where new players can fight other new players on equal ground.

Also, there are some current players who have said they would enjoy playing stock mechs, and these players are probably the right type of player who will help newbies by giving them advice.
They may not do as well as more experienced players but at least they won't be instantly pounded into the ground.

Another reason is that most players in current matches are playing to win, and can get annoyed that a new player is on their team.

Make new players play in the stock-only/trial queue for the first 25 matches before they get the choice of playing against custom mechs, or playing with stock mechs with others who choose to play there (with mechs bought from the mechlab as normal, but can't be customized).

Excuse me, but new players are not being thrown into matches with veterans. PGI already created a ELO mechanic that puts newbies together for the first 25 matches. That means no other player who played more than 25 matches will be there.

It's sometimes pretty nice to know stuff. Makes everything easier and prevents wasting time by posting useless threads.

[Modo44]

Typhoon Storm 2142, on 12 September 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Excuse me, but new players are not being thrown into matches with veterans.

Yes, they are. Even if what you say is true (it is not), to someone with over 1000 matches under their belt, the guy on his "already" 26th is still a noobie -- either an unreliable wingman, or easy pray.

Edited by Modo44, 12 September 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[Typhoon Storm 2142]

Modo44, on 12 September 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Yes, there are. Even if what you say is true (it is not), to someone with over 1000 matches under their belt, the guy on his "already" 26th is still a noobie -- either an unreliable wingman, or easy pray.

Yes, my uninformed friend, it's true. But one has to read announcements from the devs to know this. You apparently have not read alot.

Quote

Match Making Update

- All new players starting the game will have 2 Elo scores assigned to them.
- New Player Elo = 1100 (N-Elo)
- Standard Player Elo = 1300 (S-Elo)
- Any new player (has 25 games or less in their history) will be using their N-Elo score to be matched with other players.
- The outcome of the game will affect both their N-Elo score and their S-Elo score.
- When the player has completed their 25th game, the N-Elo score is eliminated and the player from that point on will use their S-Elo score for match making.
- This change makes the initial experiences of a new player much easier and prevents the player from playing players with numerous matches under their belts.

And I don't give a damn about players who already played 25 matches and bought a own 'Mech from their cadet bonus. If they still suck, it's too bad. Then they have to go down under fire from veterans, who cares. Define how many matches make a player a "veteran" You want the noobs together for their first 1000 matches instead? What's the matter with you?

[Stormwolf]

There are plenty of experienced players who want to only play stock mode. Many of them would slaughter newbies, although a lobby system could fix that since we could form leagues for that sort of thing.

Personally I'd support the idea of players with stock mechs to only drop in stock matches. It would allow new players to appreciate stock designs. Matches with min maxed mechs only make them hate the non-optimized designs like so many people here do.

Edited by Stormwolf, 12 September 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[Modo44]

Typhoon Storm 2142, on 12 September 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

Yes, my uninformed friend, it's true.

No, it is not. N-ELO only makes noobies look like bad veteran players to the matchmaker. It does not prevent them from being paired with better players, which happens on a regular basis. Terrible team matching is the very issue at play here. The system only looks good on paper.

[Johnny Z]

A newbie zone in games is not a new idea. I think mw needs time grow and add this.

The idea of letting experienced players into a zone like this isnt a bad idea either, but agressive guild recruiting is one of the many reasons newbie zones have been added to online game. These are just some of the things to think about when adding anything to an A title such as this is promised to be.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

I would start calling that in other words. Not newbie zone. Couse regiment serious pilots would fight thare, special events would be thare. As I see this. So no whare near newbie, but yes newbies would not start to min maxing bs, that destroying this game.
Its impossible to have real competitive enviroment with current state of meta. You guys seams faild to see that metagame is a one of the main reasons why hard core is lefting this game.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 12 September 2013 - 05:08 AM.

[Tweaks]

Wolfways, on 12 September 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

If experienced players can join, yes newbies in trial mechs will still have a tough time, but nowhere near the instant death they experience joining regular matches now.
Plus there are players who would love to play with stock mechs. It seems to me that non-customization fits better with PGI's "the heat system must be important" and players will actually have to choose which weapons to fire instead of spamming low-heat weapons.

I used to play Battlefield 3 a lot. There are a lot of servers that advertise as "Noob-Only" but have no level cap on them. Well, those are where you find the most level 100 players with 40:1 kill/death ratio just farming poor newbies to grind their XP. This is human nature. If there's an easy way to prey and dominate others, people will use it. You can be sure that unless they restrict this mode to only true newbies and cadets with stock 'Mechs, that a lot of veterans will be farming their XP like that in MWO too, even with that ELO system in place.

[Wolfways]

Tweaks, on 12 September 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

I used to play Battlefield 3 a lot. There are a lot of servers that advertise as "Noob-Only" but have no level cap on them. Well, those are where you find the most level 100 players with 40:1 kill/death ratio just farming poor newbies to grind their XP. This is human nature. If there's an easy way to prey and dominate others, people will use it. You can be sure that unless they restrict this mode to only true newbies and cadets with stock 'Mechs, that a lot of veterans will be farming their XP like that in MWO too, even with that ELO system in place.

There's a big difference between a normal server advertised as a "Newbie server" and a server dedicated to limited builds. While there are some...certain types that would play on the dedicated server to farm newbies i doubt there'd be that many as most of them won't want to play with non-customized mechs.

As for the ELO system i have my doubts that it works. A couple of times i've seen players asking how to play at the start of a match, or "How do i do X?". Unless of course i have a low ELO which i have no idea about because i get one of, if not the highest match scores in the majority of my matches.
So as far as i'm concerned ELO isn't doing much.