51 replies to this topic

[Grugore]

OK. Here's the way I see it. I was on Canyon Network today. There was a cliff that was slightly taller than me. I was kissing it, and still getting hit with LRMs. How about a slight change to their trajectory, so being behind cover actually helps?

[Homeless Bill]

Grugore, on 09 September 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

slightly taller than me

Sounds like you're using ghetto cover, hoping that it will magically block all incoming fire. LRMs have to get lock, they travel slow, and you get a big warning; a decent trajectory is all they've got going for them. Aside from the way they go for the CT, they're pretty balanced right now. I vote no.

[Sybreed]

no one should be allowed to complain about LRMs.

They SUCK.

[Lynx7725]

Slightly taller shouldn't work. LRMs are essentially mortars when locked and would plunge fire. Taller cover would help though.

If you're being hit by so many LRMs that it's a problem it's time to relocate anyway. Battlefield is more of concealment than cover, if you're detected, you're a target. Best way to evade LRMs is simply not to be seen.

[Lightfoot]

I use LRMs on the Orion, but they are only for distraction. It's the mech's guns that make it work. LRMs are pretty bad without serious assistance from Energy or Ballistic weapons. But it's easy to avoid them and you can shutdown and all missile locks break unless a mech within 200 meters has BAP and is targeting you.

[Sybreed]

and the big

ZOMG MISSILES BE COMING YER WAYYY

isn't really helping either.

[Artgathan]

There are many problems with LRMs yet none of them are due to them being too effective.

• You receive an "Incoming Missile" warning as soon as you are locked onto and being fired upon, giving you anywhere between 1.125 and 6.25 seconds to react.
  
• Even if a target stands perfectly still, not all LRMs will impact on a small target.
  
• ECM nullifies a LRM user's ability to acquire lock-ons.
  
• Artemis boosts their effectiveness, which means that balancing Regular vs Artemis lrms is difficult (since if you go too far in one direction you invalidate the other). This also includes bonuses from TAG and NARC.
  
• AMS is extremely effective against small volleys of missiles, which forces support units to boat LRMs if they want to actually hit a target, which forces players to specialize LRM builds.
  
• They are outranged by ~35% of the weapons in the game.
  
• The hard-capped minimum range means that LRM racks can become a serious liability in short-range engagements.

As anyone can see, balancing LRMs is tricky due to the number of variables involved. No other weapon system is as complicated (they require LOS, missiles travel and deal damage independently, there is equipment that boosts their effectiveness and, with the exception of SSRMs, do not track targets). If anything LRMs remain underpowered because they require so much effort to use in 12v12 play (you must have spotters carrying TAG that are willing to expose themselves since the enemy will be under ECM and very quickly figure out they've been TAGed when the "incoming missile" warning plays).

At the moment LRMs are very high-risk weapons, with not much reward. Sure, a coordinated lance can use them in PUG games, but that doesn't mean they're good. I've used NARC to great effect in PUG games, but I would be laughed out of the game if I showed up in a 12v12 match with a NARC launcher.

[Sybreed]

NARC? Let's see what happens with NARC:

Step 1: Fire NARC at a target
Step 2: Get shot in the face because you dared try to shoot a NARC at someone
Step 3: Have a teammate fire 4 Mlasers at said target, thus removing your NARC before you even have time to get a missile lock
Step 4: Rinse and repeat.
Step 5: Remove NARC and use Artemis instead.

Edited by Sybreed, 10 September 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[AC]

Chain firing LRM's is a real thing now. The impulse is ridiculous high now, so unless the guy is running a high end graphics card you shake his screen so bad you give him motion sickness and tank his FPS. There is no returning fire when getting hit by LRM's.

[Lynx7725]

Artgathan, on 09 September 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

There are many problems with LRMs yet none of them are due to them being too effective.

• Artemis boosts their effectiveness, which means that balancing Regular vs Artemis lrms is difficult (since if you go too far in one direction you invalidate the other). This also includes bonuses from TAG and NARC.

IIRC, Artemis only work if you have direct LOS to the target.

[Ace Selin]

Problem is, if a light tags you and then the 6 LRM boats on the other team all launch volleys. Youre pretty much dead.
LRMS on a mech or two & incoming isnt too bad, but from a larger number of them incoming, all that firepower from a long distance is pretty damned strong weapon mechanics. Teams that use this are very powerfull & deadly. Especially on the larger maps where you need to move to get closer. Thats what needs to be considered.

[Jestun]

Ace - focus fire from 6-7 mechs (in your example 6 lrm + 1 tag) will be fatal regardless of the weapoj.

6-7 vs. 1 is inherently unbalanced.

[Raidyr]

I think LRM's are in a good place right now, the problem is the current strength of long range direct fire weapons. With a spotter LRM's still work well enough but going up to a ridge and trying to TAG and fire yourself just earns you several Gauss/PPC/large laser blasts to the CT or head if they are good.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

LRMs are not "long" range, they are a medium range direct fire weapon in PUGs which need other components to use well (ie Artemis and TAG). 400m is about the maximum range that you can use them effectively given all the disadvantages.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

I think LRMs are in a good place, especially when teamwork is a factor (both as the missile shooter and the missile receiver). That said, you don't want to be caught in the open and without ECM when a LRM5 boating Catapult targets you. That is hell, regardless of the actual damage (which is not as little as you would imagine).

[William Chase Davion]

AC, on 09 September 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Chain firing LRM's is a real thing now. The impulse is ridiculous high now, so unless the guy is running a high end graphics card you shake his screen so bad you give him motion sickness and tank his FPS. There is no returning fire when getting hit by LRM's.

Not only does the screen shake horribly and fps tank, but your vision is completely obscured by the smoke and explosions. You can't see to get to cover, and can't move or shoot.

(note: I have a 3 month old Asus laptop, intended for gaming, with 3gb of video ram. I have MWO set to medium graphics settings.)

[VIPER2207]

Sybreed, on 09 September 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

no one should be allowed to complain about LRMs.

They SUCK.

Spoiler

disproved

ok, to be honest, this match was a steamroll, but trust me, it also works in non-steamroll-matches... you just have to know how to ride a LRM-Boat.

here's the loadout
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...67f1bb455ff3077

the 2 MLs are only for decoration, you could also drop them, they realy can't do anything

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yea, I have noticed cover not helping occasionally, but I do chaulk that up to either NARC or TAG laser.

Game working as intendid and how it should. Time to move on.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ace Selin, on 10 September 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Problem is, if a light tags you and then the 6 LRM boats on the other team all launch volleys. Youre pretty much dead.
LRMS on a mech or two & incoming isnt too bad, but from a larger number of them incoming, all that firepower from a long distance is pretty damned strong weapon mechanics. Teams that use this are very powerfull & deadly. Especially on the larger maps where you need to move to get closer. Thats what needs to be considered.

This is Working as intended. I am not joking. It is exactly how it should work. You get lazed, The missiles find you and pound you to scrap. That IS working perfectly. We may not like it, but it's how it should work.

[OneEyed Jack]

AC, on 09 September 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Chain firing LRM's is a real thing now. The impulse is ridiculous high now, so unless the guy is running a high end graphics card you shake his screen so bad you give him motion sickness and tank his FPS. There is no returning fire when getting hit by LRM's.

William Chase Davion, on 10 September 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

Not only does the screen shake horribly and fps tank, but your vision is completely obscured by the smoke and explosions. You can't see to get to cover, and can't move or shoot.

(note: I have a 3 month old Asus laptop, intended for gaming, with 3gb of video ram. I have MWO set to medium graphics settings.)

I play on a 2-year old laptop that's not even built for gaming, and I have no problem with this. If the effects are too much for you, maybe turn your effects down? Or, I dunno, maybe get an AMS. Chain-firing is almost completely nullified by even a singe AMS, so if there's any problem with chain-firing it's between the chair and the keyboard.