158 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

I think you should take a little damage and come to a complete stop and get stunned depending on the speed you hit said object.

Edit:Collisions are going to come back it was said in the NGNG podcast with Bryan Eckman. So lets help them come up with a not so grieving way to implement it.

Edited by Imperius, 09 September 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

I don't think the game needs collisions. It will only nerf the already underpowered lights. If it came with SIGNIFICANT light buffs, then maybe it could work.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 09 September 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Light pilots: The light should bounce off for minimal damage.

Assault pilots: The light should be crushed beneath my massive weight.

Me: Impact energy should be calculated (Kinetic Energy=1/2mass*velocity*velocity) and applied to both mechs, Each mech should have a threshold for when it gets knocked down. A light mech moving fast may indeed knock over an atlas, because velocity counts twice over, but the light will probably have the lower threshold, and will be in worse trouble from being knocked down.

To be frank, the real reason I want collisions back has nothing to do with lights, I want it back to make people spread the **** out. People will stop cowering right behind the Atlas as it advances, if they get knocked over when the atlas has to back up.
There will be a short period of adjustment (read: ******* and moaning on the forums) and then, hopefully, people will stop facehumping their own team all the time.

[Imperius]

PEEFsmash, on 09 September 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

I don't think the game needs collisions. It will only nerf the already underpowered lights. If it came with SIGNIFICANT light buffs, then maybe it could work.

So you're saying you don't want them in because you shouldn't have to watch where you run? It's a nerf to all classes, and part of the lore and game. Lights don't need anymore buffs, it's not a nerf to suggest you watch where you run. That should be part of the skill in playing a light. This would effect only the bad mech pilots that don't pay attention to where they run. Got it....

Back on topic.

One Medic Army I like your suggestion.

Collisions are going to come back it was said in the NGNG podcast with Bryan Eckman. So lets help them come up with a not so grieving way to implement it.

Edited by Imperius, 09 September 2013 - 10:10 PM.

[nitra]

With a WHAM*!*!* and a BANG!*!*! accompanied with some motion blur and a slight change of fov to induce motion sickness ..followed by a resounding THUD*!*! that reverberates through out the area.

Edited by nitra, 09 September 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[NextGame]

just make it as realistic and in line with the laws of physics as possible, which is always preferable over some convoluted & imagined nonsense.

[OpCentar]

Collisions are needed to stop the midget leg humping, also enable DFA.


Some kind of kinetic energy calculation and introduction of enhanced gyro modules would be a good start.

[stjobe]

Imperius, on 09 September 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

[Collisions are] part of the lore and game.

Actually, they aren't. There were no (accidental) collisions in BattleTech.

There were intentional physical attacks like Charging, Death From Above, Punching, and Kicking, but there were no accidental collisions.

I'd love to see Charging, Death From Above, Punching, and Kicking, but accidental collisions and knock-downs? Not so much - it happens a lot that I get run over by my own team-mates, losing armour in the process, through no fault of my own. If this was to do even more damage and/or knock me over, it would just be a return to the bad old days of closed beta knock-downs.

Probably the most they could do without introducing a complete physical attack framework is a re-adjustment of collision damage to not always hit the legs but actually do damage where the 'mechs touch, and a re-adjustment of the damage to be proportional to the speed and weight of the two 'mechs - and that's going to hurt light 'mechs more than anything; in a couple of matches back in closed beta I actually lost more armour from getting run over by my own team-mates at the start of the match than I did from enemy fire.

And I have died to physical damage on at least on two memorable occasions; one when a StreakCat jumped on my head until I died because I was shut down in our base and he couldn't fire his SSRMs at me to win the match, one where I turned a full-speed corner right into the crotch of a friendly Atlas with a sliver of health on my CT; that killed me and the friendly actually got a team kill for it.

So yeah, it's a tough nut to crack this one; on the one hand it would be great to have the full range of physical attacks, on the other hand I do remember how much it pissed me off getting my armour torn off by my own team's oblivious bus driver assault pilots.

Now over to physical attacks:

Charging, if it was implemented, would likely need to follow the BattleTech rules for damage: (tonnage/10 * speed/10) damage to the target, target's tonnage/10 damage to the attacker; this would mean a Spider charging at 150kph would do 45 damage to a target, and if that target was an Atlas, the Spider would take 10 damage in return.

The other physical attacks would also do the BattleTech amount of damage.

A suggestion I have made before is this: Make the physical attacks their own separate attacks with separate buttons to trigger them:
Press 'k' to make your 'mech kick; if it connects to anything, calculate damage accordingly.
Press 'p' to make your 'mech punch; if it connects to anything, calculated damage accordingly.
Press 'c' to make your 'mech charge in a straight line; if it connects to anything, calculate damage accordingly.
Press 'd' to make a DFA attack. If it connects to anything, calculate damage accordingly.

Then you could also implement the rules for hand actuators; a 'mech with hand actuators can use melee weapons, doing kick damage with a punch (kicks do tonnage/5 damage, punches do tonnage/10), and 'mechs without at least shoulder, upper, and lower arm actuators cannot punch at all.

Sorry for spacing out on physical attacks, but when you think about it collision damage is just an extension of physical attacks; some part of your 'mech collides more or less energetically with some part of another 'mech, doing damage in the collision.

[One Medic Army]

stjobe, on 09 September 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Actually, they aren't. There were no (accidental) collisions in BattleTech.

Um, there totally were.
You could slide/fall into another mech by failing a pilot check in the tabletop game.

[MustrumRidcully]

I think collisions without any extras should be limited to stopping both mechs and maybe throwing them back a bit, dealing a little damage.

Knockdowns I'd try to keep minimal. Maybe mechs knock down then they are colliding while the mech is shutdown, or when falling when shut down. And maybe there could be a "Charge" module that allows players to perform a charge as a special weapon maneuver that has some limitations (be it at full speed, disables your weapons for 5 seconds after the charge). Even that could prove problematic, dragon bowlers will remember.

[Sam Slade]

What Mustrum said except that a Charge can call through armor criticals.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Not at all!

[Raidyr]

Honestly the only collision fixes I want to see is an end to the absurd warping effect when two mechs hit each other. If you absolutely want to punish light pilots for having the audacity to use their mobility advantage then maybe change the damage amounts around based on speed and weight of the mechs colliding. I just really hope we don't go back to closed beta bumper cars.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't think the game needs collisions. It will only nerf the already underpowered lights. If it came with SIGNIFICANT light buffs, then maybe it could work.

Lights are not underpowered. They evasion tank damage better than than assaults can soak damage. Collisions are needed to balance that out. If a light mech doesnt pilot responsibly it shouldnt get better survivability than an assault.

[stjobe]

One Medic Army, on 09 September 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Um, there totally were.
You could slide/fall into another mech by failing a pilot check in the tabletop game.

Well yes, you could. But that was the exception rather than the rule; 'mechs didn't normally brush up against and cause damage to each other - certainly not to the extent that it's occurring in MWO (read: just about every drop).

So let me amend that statement: There were no (accidental) collisions in BattleTech Accidental collisions in BattleTech were exceedingly rare, so an appeal to lore doesn't make much sense when accidental collisions is a very frequent occurrence in MWO.

[Raidyr]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Lights are not underpowered. They evasion tank damage better than than assaults can soak damage. Collisions are needed to balance that out. If a light mech doesnt pilot responsibly it shouldnt get better survivability than an assault.

"Evasion tank" isn't a thing in MWO. This is a shooter. Lights are using their mobility and forcing you to aim a little bit better to hit them. The trade off is that when you do hit them, they take 20 damage to their 20 or 30 point CT rather than 10 damage to an Assault's 50-80 CT.

[Raidyr]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

It absolutely is. If you fire a weapon at a light mech and miss, it has wasted that weapons cooldown, that is a form of tanking.

No, that is called missing because you aren't a very good shot. Evasion tanking refers to a defensive strategy in games that play nothing like MWO. If I'm playing TF2 as a Scout and a Soldier misses me with a rocket that is not evasion tanking.

[Dago Red]

Raidyr, on 10 September 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

No, that is called missing because you aren't a very good shot. Evasion tanking refers to a defensive strategy in games that play nothing like MWO. If I'm playing TF2 as a Scout and a Soldier misses me with a rocket that is not evasion tanking.

I'd say in any game with asymmetrical class balance requiring a mixed team to play towards their strengths in such a way that it complements their vastly different teammates that evasion tanking is totally a thing.

If that scout is intentionally baiting someone with a slow firing weapon into shooting at them instead of a teammate that's about blow them away with superior firepower while they're distracted then it very much falls into the holy trinity gameplay setup. Hell using TF2 as an example works against you as it even has healers.

[Kiiyor]

I think there should be a gigantic metal clang, sparks in the cockpit, screen shaking so violent that the initial JJ shake would look on in horror and say "gee, that's a bit much mate", before both mechs experience a brief loss of control as their staggering war machines stumble through a random series of steps in an attempt to steady themselves...

... and that's it. More of a staggering deflection than a knockdown. Sure, there can be damage that scales with the speed of the impact, but no more Jenner bowling. No more GG when your untouched Awesome rounds a corner and is Dragon-punched for the rest of the match by a Dragon. No more soccer theatrics when you absent-mindedly nudge a friendly at the start of a match.

Lights wouldn't be ruined, and a semblance of realism would be added without resorting to the bitemarks-in-keyboard levels of fury that the old KD mechanics brought to the table.

IMHO of course.

[Leafia Barrett]

I want collisions implemented. I don't want them implemented in a way even resembling the way they were before. Instead of knockdowns, what about staggering and being thrown off course, without wrenching control from the player for a lethal amount of time?
EDIT: Also considerable damage, of course.

Edited by Leafia Barrett, 10 September 2013 - 02:52 AM.