28 replies to this topic

[Xandre Blackheart]

TOGSolid, on 14 September 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

Of course, this blatantly obvious sort of mistake doesn't line up with what you windowlicking conspiracy theorists want to believe because it's more fun for you guys to create some sort of crazy story that you can get mad at and spread around. PGI did 9/11, PGI lied electrons died, etc.

The reason people come up with conspiracy theories is because it's difficult for them to accept the level of stupidity and incompetence which underlies many disasters. I can only assume you favor the stupidity and incompetence explination for the balance debacles.

I'm cool with that.

Edited by Xandre Blackheart, 14 September 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Naduk]

Balance is a voodoo science
it takes alot more than just numbers and data to balance a weapon
the reasons this is true never change

everyone wants to use the OP weapon
everyone wants to feel powerful
everyone wants to win

these statements remain true for every single game.... ever

however for a game to be fun you cannot let players have the things they want
this seems counter intuitive as games are about fun and enjoyment
but majority of games are against other people and other people will not play with you if they can never win
nobody likes to lose all the time
losing is necessary and the risk/chance of it should be high otherwise a victory has no reward value

all of these things feed balance
each weapon in the game should be able to win the game
else there is no point in having the weapon
a pawn can still win a chess game as much as any other piece even if the others can seem overpowered in comparison

a balanced weapon should feel overpowered by the user
a balanced weapon should be a manageable threat by the target
a balanced weapon should have equal chance at winning vs similar category weapon

achieving this takes alot more than pure math
the UAC5 is the perfect example
its core working have been reworked more times than any other weapon and its still not quite right

but just like LRMs and Machine guns it will eventually find that happy place where it can feel op for the owner but normal for the target

Paul collects his data over the span of 30 days (usually)
this is extremely necessary because ANY time you change an item, that item will get used ALOT
lots of people will read patch notes, others will just see it used alot and go to see what the fuss is about
true data is collected after the initial rush
because quite often something new seems like it is truly overpowered and cannot be defeated
but it takes time for people to figure out how to defend against the new or altered item

this is when the meta changes
sometimes it cannot change because there is no counter (introduction of ecm)
again this is where the voodoo comes in, do you balance the item with no counter, or create counters
data alone will not tell you the answer, changing that 7 to a 5 wont solve the problem
you need to feel out the solution and quite often what may seem like a good idea can prove not to be
even tho it might be balanced it just wont feel right, or feels to weak

so
its not just about math
and it most certainly has nothing to do with making weapons OP to sell mechs

[CrashieJ]

we need more maps.

change the maps, change the balance

[FREDtheDEAD]

Conspiracy theories arise mainly because humans really like finding patterns in things, even random things. Given enough things, there's always patterns to be found in them. Combine that with distrust and we're there!

I don't believe this idea because most of the hero mechs that came out at the same time as a weapon balance change weren't the best at exploiting the balance change (according to my memory) and many of the mech sales sold mechs that weren't useful for contemporary cheese builds. You can say "some were" but that's inevitable.

[Thanatos676]

those tinfoil hats must be comfortable

The best analogy for a conspiracy theory is this: The minute god crapped out the 3rd man, a conspiracy was born against one of them.

There will always be people like this....

[SchwarzerPeter]

http://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w

Edited by SchwarzerPeter, 16 September 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Smokeyjedi]

They willingly lie to our faces and laugh about it behind their moderators ability to street sweep the evidence.

[spacekeeper]

It's called 'perfect imbalance'. I'm not saying the game is perfect by any means, but it is a thing. If you want a balanced game, go and play Chess. The only balanced game is a perfectly symmetrical game.

A couple of the posters here could benefit from familiarising themselves with Occam's Razor. Not that it would make any difference, there are some worrying signs of mental illness on display here.

[Nihtgenga]

Variadic, on 17 September 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

A couple of the posters here could benefit from familiarising themselves with Occam's Razor. Not that it would make any difference, there are some worrying signs of mental illness on display here.

Fact check: Over minimum the last 4 patches, at least 50% of the trial mechs, which were in "Trial-by-fire"-sales for MC afterwards, featured as a main weapon system the weapons, which were downgraded afterwards somehow. The same with the hero mechs, which are also on sale for MC. Out when good, nerfed shortly after. Last was the Orion (PPCs), next will be the Ilya (UAC/5). So the longer this scheme fits, the less likely it is pure chance. And MC = money for PGI, which is why they do the game.

What is YOUR simplest and easiest explanation, following Occam's Razor?