51 replies to this topic

[Navy Sixes]

They're AC2s, for chrissake! 6 tons a piece, the dumbest heat in the game, no PP if your target is moving at all (let alone is half-way competent and knows to keep swiveling their torso) and they suck down so much ammo that to run more than two is to commit at the very minimum another 4+ tons to turning your mech into an unmanageable heat-beast with XL-engine-vulnerable STs and legs like boom-pinatas.

Each round does 2 pts of damage. You're really going to get on these forums and put your name next to a complaint about a weapon that does 2 pts of damage!?

People say DPS is OP. People say the smoke and shake are OP.

If you're trudging through the open, where the enemy can lay a steady stream of AC/2 fire into you, with all that smoke and shake and DPS, you've got whatever you have coming. There is a nerf for continuous AC/2 fire already. It's called terrain awareness.

What's next? Small lasers? LRM5s? SRM2s? Make your case; change our minds... we're all laughing listening.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Some people suck *** at the game and have to ***** about every weapons system being nerfed since they lost their precious PPC+Gauss combo.

Mad, bad idiots.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Lol nice OP. Summed it up well.

Though i might add.

"like Ac2's ?, like rapid fire ? ....like ghost heat also ? "

Bassicaly, anything other than alpha firing AC2's and ur fked.
Rapid fire = Overheat.
Chainfire = Waste
Alpha = Why use AC2's if ur gunna alpha

[Navy Sixes]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 September 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Some people suck *** at the game and have to ***** about every weapons system being nerfed since they lost their precious PPC+Gauss combo.

Mad, bad idiots.

So... that's your reasonable case for OP AC2? No one is mad here but you, ACJ. Next...

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Tycho von Gagern, on 18 September 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

So... that's your reasonable case for OP AC2? No one is mad here but you, ACJ. Next...

No. Thats my case for people being bad ******* idiots and bitching about any weapons system that seems remotely good, but not OP, like the UAC5 and AC2.

People still have hurtbutt over PPC+Gauss nerfs, and assume that just because their OP comp got nerfed, anything else that seems remotely good has to get nerfed too.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 18 September 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Navy Sixes]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 September 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

People still have hurtbutt over PPC+Gauss nerfs, and assume that just because their OP comp got nerfed, anything else that seems remotely good has to get nerfed too.

Ah, I understand now. For the record, I thought PPC/Gauss was a little OP, and the UAC jam buff was a little much. I like where they are now.

I have always listened to people say "grievers will complain until we're all using butterknives" and rolled my eyes: there have been real balance issues in this game that needed to be addressed. I think we're pretty much there now, or at least damn near. I don't know where everyone else is, but I'm seeing a lot of variety on the battlefield in terms of both weapons and styles of play.

I think we're at a point where we're starting to find out who can really make a valid case for a system being too much or too little, and on the other hand who is just complaining about whatever killed them last.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Tycho von Gagern, on 18 September 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

Ah, I understand now. For the record, I thought PPC/Gauss was a little OP, and the UAC jam buff was a little much. I like where they are now.

I have always listened to people say "grievers will complain until we're all using butterknives" and rolled my eyes: there have been real balance issues in this game that needed to be addressed. I think we're pretty much there now, or at least damn near. I don't know where everyone else is, but I'm seeing a lot of variety on the battlefield in terms of both weapons and styles of play.

I think we're at a point where we're starting to find out who can really make a valid case for a system being too much or too little, and on the other hand who is just complaining about whatever killed them last.

I had been adamantly against PPC+Gauss all 5 months of its dominance, and before that I was against SRMpocalypse where the Skillcat was the OP mech to run. You could say I was a complainer, but I didnt see it like that because what was actually happening.

Now, nothing is extraordinarily overpowered. It's people bitching just for the sake of bitching. Before we had legitimate gameplay balance problems where it seriously effected the meta and how the game was played. Now we have bad idiots who cry all day on the forums, and rate the game 0/10 on metacritic for the sole reason that they're mad they cant be effortlessly winning games with EZ mode strats.

This games community is seriously, the f.ucking worst.

[Navy Sixes]

ArmageddonKnight, on 18 September 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Lol nice OP. Summed it up well.

Though i might add.

"like Ac2's ?, like rapid fire ? ....like ghost heat also ? "

Bassicaly, anything other than alpha firing AC2's and ur fked.
Rapid fire = Overheat.
Chainfire = Waste
Alpha = Why use AC2's if ur gunna alpha

There is another reason, of course, one that has nothing to do with numbers:

Total. Dakka. Addiction.

I'm running 2 AC2 right now. I can get off a 3-4 shot accurate burst before a competent player starts moving and finds cover or a competent team returns fire and I have to find cover. So that's at most 16 points of damage, spread out over the target in 4pt groups.

Of course, if they're not so competent and stand there turning into the incoming fire, I can pump out a whole lot more into their CT and face, making it very hard for them to accurately return fire. But even then I can't keep going too long or I'm overheating, so I still can't take down a big-armor heavy/assault. In addition, they can still get the lock, so if there are LRMs on their team I'm gonna have to break off quick.

I feel, in my experience, there are lots of ways to counter an AC2 mech that don't require super-skills or anything particularly special. I don't think they're any more OP than any other weapon. That's my opinion, of course. I started this post to see if anyone can make a decent opposing argument.

[Devil Fox]

Tycho von Gagern, on 18 September 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

If you're trudging through the open, where the enemy can lay a steady stream of AC/2 fire into you, with all that smoke and shake and DPS, you've got whatever you have coming. There is a nerf for continuous AC/2 fire already. It's called terrain awareness.

Actually the nerf they implemented was the hidden ghost heat to the 0.5s cooldown for the AC2's originally which made macro boats or even a dual chainfire grouping impossible to run without shutdown in a 3 sec window. I can say that people complain because they don't expect to be beat by it. I had a group of 4X Phracts load up 2 ac2's, 2 UAC5's, they formed a firing line on alpine and literally marched upto and over the ridge firing the entire time. It rustled jimmie's, the enemy were forced to take alot of damage or hunker down as the rest of us moved in to engage.

People just don't like having to learn to adpot to new weapon uses or skills, or change their own playstyle. My motto is 'adapt or die' and I've seen alot of people fail to adapt to the ever evoling gameplay.

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 September 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

People still have hurtbutt over PPC+Gauss nerfs, and assume that just because their OP comp got nerfed, anything else that seems remotely good has to get nerfed too.

People are still hurt because the gauss mechanic is un-intutive for new players, and still has many of the shortfalls that were given to it. But adapt or die, I don't need the gauss to play well, the good players have already evolved their machines. Anything that is remotely good gets nerfed because it becomes abused, look at the gauss initially, abused by k2 cats so the little health and exploding nature was added. Or LRM's and SRM's, their damage values have been all over the shop during open beta... it's all called game balance. If something is over-used they try to bring it into line with other weapons, but PGI likes their created meta as we saw with the UAC5 meta and their last sale.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Hmmmm....AC2's, they feel as though someone were throwing rocks at my mech, not shooting it with heavy weaponry. Glorified machine guns is all they are.

[stevemac]

all this nerf this nerf that I cant wait till the they bring collisions back in then you will see people screaming nerf

[xMEPHISTOx]

Collisions are OP.

[stevemac]

xMEPHISTOx, on 18 September 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Collisions are OP.

that was quick...lol

[Lightfoot]

MWO doesn't support long range, sorry.

[Shadey99]

If they are frightened by AC2s then the Heat Nuetral JM6-S should scare them and the developers into fits... Theoretical 900 damage, extreme range, and if you have elited the JM6-S no more heat generated than created...

Note that this is not a serious build, it was me playing around with the extremes required to get a heat nuetral mech without using gauss rifles or MGs...

[Khobai]

AC2s need fixin. Kindve silly that an AC/2 generates more heat than an AC/20.

[Jin Ma]

people complain about AC2?

[-Natural Selection-]

I chain fire the hell out of 4xac2s with almost no heat. Took a bit to work out delay between strokes, recycle and key release but fires off like an MG. 250 rounds before I even think about heat. It is a great suppression (support) mech and can do 600+ damage if played right. But you are NOT going toe to toe with most any mech with good armor and decent loadout (is by no means a Rambo mech). Is almost like a ranged mg build imo.

[Anastasius]

I miss collision tbh. Those early closed beta days were OP.

[VezRoth]

Khobai, on 18 September 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

AC2s need fixin. Kindve silly that an AC/2 generates more heat than an AC/20.

Not really. Not when you think about the mechanics of a gun.

Think of it this way: A cannon aboard a tank (for example) can fire one round every few seconds. The crew need to load, aim, and fire the next round. It's a big *** bullet. The barrel of that gun is going to get hot, yes, but the surface area is greater, the metal is thicker to withstand the power of the round leaving. The barrel of a modern machine gun gets extremely hot, so hot that in the same amount of time it takes for a tank to fire off one round that machine gun has pumped out dozens of shots, and the barrel of the machine gun is glowing red hot.

A Gatling gun does not have multiple barrels just for fun. If it had only a single barrel, with that rate of fire, the barrel would liquefy.