44 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Voivode, on 11 September 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

So, I don't know if I'm the only one, but I'm really quite sick of all the big, empty, open maps. What's wrong with plenty of cover?

lol what? The majority of maps are nothing but cover!

[Angels Bane]

mw3, with its limited terrain, was an in ur face slug-fest and one of my all time fav games. mw4, and this present incarnation, both have an over abundance of terrain which leads to a game of peek-a-boo mech.

[MischiefSC]

I'd love River City without capping. Not trying to start a capping debate but the result of it is a narrowing of choices for where you can or should get in a fight. Some of the best games I've had on that map though involves brutal street-fights and were a lot of fun.

Tourmaline, Alpine, Terra Therma.... they're pretty. They are. If you didn't bring LRMs, JJs and PPCs, maybe a cluster of AC2s, the maps involve waiting until the sniping is over/ammo runs out/someone rushes, then a big standing mostly in the open brawl. It's fun and I'm not complaining about the variability of tactics and the nature of some maps totally invalidating one weapon system or another but a good mix can be fun.

That's why I wish Crismon Strait was more common. Best map going. God, imagine if there were tactical objectives just south of the saddle or on the islands? If we ever get game modes where you just get bonuses for holding key locations (info on enemy positions, a free artillery strike for holding it for 4 minutes, etc) instead of just win conditions you'd see so much more of these maps in play and a diverse swing in tactical options.

[Caswallon]

Heck the big wide maps are not so much as a problem as the fact there are only a limited ways you can go on any of them to achieve victory.

Until some kind of random element is introduced, the big maps especially have a problem you have roughly a 50/50 chance of picking "the right way to win" on any given map...

Bring on random base spawn locations or supply caches that are off in the underused corners of the map that provide XP or one off consumables or resource points OR something!

But right now. If you pick the correct path [left, right or straight sums it up regardless of map] you have a higher chance of winning almost regardless of how good your team is...

[CrashieJ]

If players can make this out of scratch, PGI needs to get moving.

[PlaidDragon]

One environment we're missing is lush tropical rainforest... maybe something like that or a jungle-filled island to fight on?

[Wil McCullough]

moon map. that would be so great.

but of course there shouldn't be any star wars PEW PEW BOOM BOMBA sounds.

just silence, cos, you know vacuum.

[CDLord HHGD]

THIS city!

[SgtMaster]

personally i'm tired of these claustrophobic maps...

I wish for Lunar, Dustbowl, Scrubs and Hogsback maps..!

[Roadbeer]

At this point, the way the maps are coming out are to provide assets for future maps. Once you've created the assets, then it's fairly easy to churn out a wide variety of maps.

The maps your seeing now (aside from the 'night' versions, which have their own merits for being created) represent the widest diversity of "models" and I feel that once a 'lunar' map, a 'jungle' map, a 'savanna' map and a 'Sahara' map come out, it will have covered most of the bases for terrain types you're likely to find on any 'inhabited' world.

Just looking at the 3 'city' maps, you have basically the assets to create any type of city. "Crimson" has the look of a modern, gleaming metropolis, "River" has the look of a city in decline and 'Frozen" has the look of an abandoned city. So, take the building models from Crimson, put them on the "Alpine" tile-set with some elements from "Frozen City", BOOM you have a fair representation of Denver in winter. Take Tourmaline/Caustic (or a Sahara map), drop in the buildings from "Frozen City" and you have an abandoned desert city.

IMO, there is a reason you're seeing the maps that you are, and the reason that they're "Wide Open" is that it allows for a greater number of tile-sets to use moving forward, they have the 'City" assets and a lesser number of "Town/Colony" assests, once they complete a few more terrain tile-sets and a variety of trees (PGI, WHY DO YOU HATE TREES?) I'm willing to bet, you're going to see 1. not only "new" maps (which will really just be derivatives of old maps) but 2. A much quicker cycle of map releases.

[DukeNukemCZ]

Cryengine can handle it.. overall if you look at MWO maps they feel little bit like from cryengine sandbox amateur builder (new ones are better but...) Im missing some larger map with futuristic urban environment... but considering other maps i find them weirdly designed (style, design, mesh placement...) it feels odd if you walk through lamp/tree or whatever, if you battle at nigth city and there are no lights in windows or remains of it (even if population was evacuated) its future lots of it is probably automated.

MWO level builder/designers should use more fantasy they got cryengine but dont even use it at half of its potential (maybe they dont have enough man power or level builder isnt fully familiar with cryengine sandbox editor)

MWO maps simply feel empty or dead to me.. like static movie scene missing more immersion (design, ambient sounds, environment...)

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

And don't forget people to step on!

[Wil McCullough]

hrmph.

you guys just want built-up maps so pgi will have no choice but to give you your urbanmechs and let you have your ball on ball action.

i do hope they add in urbanmechs though.

can you imagine the number of 2 x urbie, 1 x stalker premades?

or the double entendres from said premades in chat: "alpha lance pushing up the enemy's rear."

it'll be a riot.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 14 November 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Fut, on 12 September 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

No offence, but that's a really ****** attitude - "Everybody else is cheating, so I have to as well".
And people wonder why society is in such a decline...

Technically it's not cheating as it is doing something that is allowed within the rules of the game. Some of the particle effects obscure long range vision when turned up and don't when turned down. I think it is less than ideal that reducing graphics settings allows much better long range sniping, but you are a fool if you do not take advantage of it.

[Sean von Steinike]

I want more maps of all sorts including rolling plains with almost no cover at all, to swamp and real forest maps, and cratered moonscapes.

[DoktorVivi]

I want maps that accommodate a balanced loadout (like stock mechs), allowing specialized builds to be specialized, rather than the FOTM.

That could possibly be done with progressive objectives. Something like Enemy Territory, where you have one objective, then the next one depends on if you pass / fail that one, etc. They would change the engagement zones on the maps as you play, rather than all engagements happening in the same place.

[Ghogiel]

Adridos, on 12 September 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Could be true, but not in the immediate sense.

It is an engine and just like any other, you could plonk down a few thousand buildings and it would be pretty fine. However, the way it is designed would probably impair the framerate too much. Just guessing based on how they seponded to the issue of low not having some foliage and thus giving an advantage by saying that when it comes to performance, they try to keep drawcalls at minimum while having no problem making the object better looking once it's there (in essence, it's better to have 2 models with 500 polygons, rather than 10 models with 100 polys from the performance standpoint).

Yes an no. If designed right only problem would probably be spiders getting on top of buildings which might allow them to get views down onto a lot of stuff. At a ground level in a city scape, and with good use of occlusion and instancing, it could be a rather expansive never ending city on a large map size.

Trees are always going to cause lag hits at some point as it'll increase the frame render time when enough get onto the map, the zbuffer has to test alpha for every triangle (with alpha) occupying a pixel in screen space, a few trees all in a row in front of you could mean several tests. Which means those pixels get rendered several times instead of once. And per frame render speed drops.


Buildings are easier to deal with as they can usually occlude, but regulars trees won't. On the other hand a few trees can all be rotated and slightly scaled and go a long way to fill up a map with clutter, these would be instanced in LOD chunks and DP across even a thousand of them could be relatively low.

Both are do able in MWO with a well designed set of assets and some strategic level design. IMO if the buildings are all destroyed looking a good base set could get used to fill out the streets, any repetition can be hidden with some rubble piles and that sort of stuff with more unique structural assets highlighting key areas on the map. I even think SDRs getting unintended aerial views can be compensated for.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 November 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[CrashieJ]

Every ******* Map in MPBT: 3025

Wil McCullough, on 14 November 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

you guys just want built-up maps so pgi will have no choice but to give you your urbanmechs and let you have your ball on ball action.

and the world will rejoice

Edited by gavilatius, 14 November 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[mekabuser]

there are no wide open empty maps. THe closest is alpine.
Most every map is cover everywhere.
and inclines.
and more cover

[Urdasein]

A cover does not have to be basically a concrete wall where you can hide behind.

It can be a hill at 400m beetween you and your ennemy or a depression.

I am using ONLY Jaggers and Stalkers (sometime black jacks) and i have learned to shoot from extremely low profile positions with only "one pixel for the weapon, one pixel for the cockpit".

To do that, you must forward slowly, just tapping the forward key, shoot tapping slightly backward then looking at PPC/bali explosions on the top line of the hill... not on your face.

Quite efficient until you got flanked of course.

Edited by loupgaroupoilu, 16 November 2013 - 03:20 PM.